retrotec? Automatic Paddle shifter....??

[dendrizzi]

I was watching wrecks to riches and they used a Automatic Paddle shifter, they said that the company was Retrotec. Have any of you guys used or seen this system around?

[TonyL]

I dont know about the system that wrecks to riches uses, but he pioneer of this system is a member here

here's his site.

www.twistmachine.com

[dendrizzi]

Will this work on a 700r4 or just the 4L60E?

[TonyL]

as far as I know, (i could be wrong) but it has to be an electronicly controlled transmission. and you need an aftermarket controller.

Like the one from TCI

it works with both the 4L60E or 4L80E for sure.

[Fuelie Fan]

Tony, you're mistaken. Retrotek sells a different paddle shifting system for non-electronic transmissions, and he was working toward electronic trans control but don't think he's there yet. Totally different company from Twist.

http://www.retrotekspeed.com/main.html

[TonyL]

Lets just say they seem very similar. One is from the innovator that thought the whole "paddle shifter" thing up, figured out how to make it work wirelessly how to package the paddles and market it.

You guess which one is which.

[Steve Chryssos]

Thanks Tony,

Dan,
It is not remotely practical to paddle shift a 700R4 or other pre-electronic transmission. Here is a comparison:

4L60E:
The paddle switch sends an signal to an electronic receiver in .125 second. The receiver communicates with a digital transmission computer--again--electronically--which in turn hits the electric shift solenoids.
The computer decides if and how hard the transmission shifts based on--you guessed it--electronic line pressure solenoids. Shift firmness is infinitely adjustable by way of the computer. The only thing between the paddle and the gear change is electrons. Short and sweet. Works awesome. Faster shift times than any mechanical floor shifted automatic or manual with a clutch pedal.
700R4:
Tap a paddle. That sends an electronic signal to a receiver (I don't know Retrotek's signal transmission time, but they did call us up to try and buy our electronics. We refused.) The Retrotek receiver communicates with a computer. The technology is similar so far, right? But here is the difference: Instead of an all electronic solution, the computer must move a linear actuator motor connected to the arm on the side of the trans. That movement adds a significant delay. Instead of electrons, motor must overcome resistance in the mechanical rod as well as the shift arm. Beyond resistance, the parts must move a certain distance. We're a long way from an all electronic solution. And that's just the actuation process.

The actual shifting goes to another mechanical device--the valve body which makes decisions based on other mechanical devices such as the TV cable, governer, etc. Springs, counterweights, pistons, and other doo-kickeys. If you want to adjust firmness to better match paddle shifter actuation, you must drop the trans pan, cover yourself in fluid, mess with internal components, re-assemble and test the results. Rinse and repeat. It defies logic to take fancy electronics and plug them into 60 year hydro mechanical equipment. It's like comparing an electric typewriter to a new Dell PC. Just because they both work on 12 volts, does not make them the same.

So with a pre-electronic transmission, delay between a paddle actuation and gear change is unreasonably excessive. You'll tap a paddle and wait...and wait.. A 1-2 WOT shift will occur relatively quick if your 700 is calibrated right. But every other gear-throttle position-wheel speed scenario will be dissapointing. Furthermore, there is no way to easily tweak the transmission calibration to improve the situation. As far as Twist Machine is concerned, that delay--the disconnected feel between paddle and gear change--is wholly unacceptable. The entire OE automotive industry agrees. Manumatic shifting appeared AFTER the introduction of electronic transmissions.

When we started developing our product four and a half years ago, Twist Machine considered a linear actuator application for pre-electronic transmissions. But we made an honest decision to exclude pre-electronic applications because they just don't work right. We threw the design in the garbage. all you get is a cool looking paddle shifter sitting behind your steering wheel. But function is seriously lacking. The design is just a novelty. If novelty is your only goal, go for it. It does, after all, make the gears change. But if function is a priority, you will be disapointed. I know it's tempting because you already have a 700. I answer this question all day long. And--believe me--I would love to reach the millions of pre-electronic transmissions out there. But Twist Machine puts integrity ahead of greed.

Get a 4L60E and a transmission controller instead. Or be happy with your mechanical floor or column shifter.

[Fuelie Fan]

Just read this...basically correct I'd say. The retrotek is doing exactly what you would do if you shifted your automatic manually. So, that should give you an idea of what the shifts would feel like. If you've done it, you know that the biggest problem is the impredictability of that method. At wide open throttle, for example, you may click up from 2-3 at 3500 rpm, but most likely the shift won't occur because your valve body is calibrated to shift at 5500rpm at wot.

Going along with that, I see what Steve is trying to say, and maybe I'm nitpicking, but to me he is confusing delay with calibration. "Electronic" transmissions, especially the 4l60e, are not truly 100% computer controlled. When looking at the schematics, it didn't take too long for me to realize that 4l60e's are fairly obviously *******ized electro-mechanical devices. They feature a dazzling array of springs, weights, and accumulators, just like 700s. This is why you can still buy shift kits for them.

Those mechanical devices are not creating "delay", or more accurately they're not creating any more delay in the 700 than in the 4l60. The difference is, with the 4l60, part of the calibration is in electronics and part is mechanical, so it's a lot easier to get shifts to occur when and how you want them to. With the 700 (or other non-automatics), the calibration is 100% mechanical. All you (or the retrotek unit) are doing is putting in a request for a shift, but the trans won't deliver until its ready to. This is where the situation I described above comes in: you request a shift, but it doesn't happen.

THat being said, electronic transmission are obviously superior. But, it's also the more expensive solution. If you enjoy shifting your auto manually from time to time but will probably spend most of your time in drive, OR if you have a full manual valve body, and you also want the look and convenience of paddle shifting, the retrotek may be for you. If you want a lot more control over when shifts occur, then Twist Machine should be in your future.