Handguns......

[Samckitt]

I am thinking of buying one. I like the 1911 models. Particularly Kimber & Springfield. The kimbers are a little more expensive, but I think are better guns. Was thinking 9mm because shells are cheaper. Who has one, what is it, & caliber? What is your opinion on Kimbers / Springfield & 9mm or .45?

Scot

[EFI69Cam]

9mm is to expensive for target shooting, and would just annoy an attacker.

.40cal is the choice for defense. Ruger makes some nice .22 pistols that are great for plinking.

[DeepBlue68]

My dad has a Springfield .45 with a trigger job and some other custom work. That gun is sweet to shoot...better than any other .45 that I've shot (not that I'm a gun conniesuer or anything). I've never shot a Kimber though, so I can't compare the two.

9mm is to expensive for target shooting, and would just annoy an attacker.

You don't think 2 or 3 to the chest (or 1 to the head) from a 9mm would stop a guy dead in his tracks? Granted, it has nowhere near the stopping power of a .40 or .45, but it can still do some damage.

[kman67rsss]

I just recently bought my 1st hand gun and i got a Ruger P345 with the rail. i love this gun. its a .45 cal and is a great shooting gun. i carry it concealed without a problem but im also 6' 280lbs. ive never shot either of the guns you are talking about though so i cant help there. all i can say is that shooting is addicting. go once or twice and you will knoe what i mean.

[dropit69]

ive had a kimber .45 awesome gun..i own now a beratta >40 cal and a 9mm..both awesome guns too..it all depends what your gonna do with it..if its for home defense shot gun and 00 buck shot is the best no aiming needed..lol

[David Pozzi]

I like a 45 best to target shoot but only if it's a steel full size gun, I seem to shoot it the best of any guns I've shot.

For a gun to have at hand for defense, a 357 revolver is nice since it's very simple to use in an emergency and can be left hammer down on an empty chamber, but it's ready to go. When you need something in a hurry and probably haven't shot it or touched it in years, simple is what you want. Racking a slide or flipping a safety is fine when you are practiced in doing so, but in a pressure situation any extra fuss could cause an error.

I also like a Glock for this reason, it can be left with a shell in the chamber and the hard trigger pull is somewhat of a safety but you can't get caught with the safety on in an emergency, or leave it with an empty chamber and just rack the slide to have it ready to go. It also holds a lot of ammo in the clip.

[Samckitt]

Here is the springfield model I like but in stainless:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/im...9134LLarge.jpg

There is a lot I like of Kimber, I think the first one the most:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols...randraptor.php
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols...icalcustom.php
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/custom/warrior.php
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols...nlesstlerl.php

Most of the Kimbers are listed (MSRP) of over $1000.

Scot

[eville]

HK USP
Best 1911 style around.
My absolute fav. 9 & .45

[Norwoodx55]

You don't think 2 or 3 to the chest (or 1 to the head) from a 9mm would stop a guy dead in his tracks? Granted, it has nowhere near the stopping power of a .40 or .45, but it can still do some damage.

I would think 2-3 should do the trick. Personaly, I would rather get it done in one. It could be hard enough to get the one in the heat of the moment. I think your defense(legal) would look a little better with one shot as well. If you really want something for self defense, the larger calibers are the best bet. My .02
Brett

[CarlC]

I also like a Glock for this reason, it can be left with a shell in the chamber and the hard trigger pull is somewhat of a safety but you won't get caught with the safety on in an emergency, or leave it with an empty chamber and just rack the slide to have it ready to go. It also holds a lot of ammo in the clip.

Another thing we have in common. I dig my G - 17 with a 19 clip.

[chicane67]

I am thinking of buying one. I like the 1911 models. Particularly Kimber & Springfield. The kimbers are a little more expensive, but I think are better guns. Was thinking 9mm because shells are cheaper. Who has one, what is it, & caliber? What is your opinion on Kimbers / Springfield & 9mm or .45? Scot

It really comes down to what your end use is going to be. I mean, there are options beyond belief and some suit a peticular application better than others. I am pretty much a 1911 homo so I may sound a little bias toward it, but I have enough experience and information to back up what comes out of my mouth.

Handgunwise, I currently own (and carry depending on my needs) a SIG220 .45ACP, a Trident Percision Machine ParaOrdnance P-14 .45ACP and a Trident Percision Machine SpringField Officers Compact .45ACP.

I went thru this same delima a few years ago in consideration for a carry sidearm, as my SIG220 was a bit too tough to conseal wearing shorts and a t-shirt in the Las Vegas summer heat. I was first looking at the Kimber Compact CDP II, the Springfield Custom Shop Compact and the Wilson Combat SDS. Although these are compact versions of the fullsize, the mechanics are the same.... so it is relevant.

Cost might be an issue, and most of the time it is, but the Kimber and the SpringField are about the same. You can pick up either one of them for around $950-1000. The WilsonCombat and the Trident Percision Machine are on the other end of the scale.... they are in the $2750-3200 range.

An old FROG buddy owns and operates Trident Percision so I got the scooby deal on the base SA Officers Compact he found at a local gun show... for $500, new in the box. When I was done, it cost me right around $900 total. 5 for the gun, 4 for the parts. He basically threw in $2k worth of finish and custom work.... but my point is.... find a good used 1911 and send it to a guy that knows what he's doing and you'll have a gun that beat's the crap out of an "out of the box" Kimber or SpringField for less than the price of a new. My shortie 4" barrel compact with 230gr SXT's shoots an 1.5" to 1.75" all day long. If I were to go down to a 185gr semi wad cutter and change the main spring it will close up to an inch and a quarter to 1.5".......

So back to the end use question. If its for carry and/or personal defense there is NO replacement for the 1911. Hands down. I dont wanna get into the whole 9mm vs .40 vs .45 vs vs vs vs. I know for the most part that there are not many people out there that can impliment two or three well placed shots into subject (or target) when the adrenalin starts flowing and/or they are taking rounds. But one thing stands for sure, it will be that one shot that counts and a 9mm doesnt cut it. The .40 is close, but cartridges are too expensive to practice with it enough to become proficient.

For personal defense, its about one shot that has the power to stop. A second shot (and/or a head shot) can be construed as 'excessive force'. After you unload 16 cartridges of 9mm into a subject and he still comes after you..... you quickly learn that there is no replacement for displacement. The .45ACP wins. Period.

On a side note: For home defense.... a 12GA semi automatic or pump. I have a Benelli M3 Super 90..... which does both semi and pump. But a Remington 870 is a darn good choice. A good used "Police turn in" runs about $200-220.

For plinking, the world is your oyster.... but you should practice with the same style or frame that you carry or use often. The 1911 is the small block Chevrolet of semi auto's..... everyone makes parts for it, it is customizable beyond belief and you can get a 22LR conversion for the 1911 cheap...... just for plinkin'.

I know enough that I would never carry a Glock, not to rain on the Glock owners here, but their "saftys" are all 'passive'.... and suck. Another cat in my group of gun homos is a federal witness to the US governement on just how 'safe' they really arnt. But..... Ill tell ya what, they do shoot rather smoothly and are accurate. Ill give them that.

I'll still take my 16 cartridge full size 1911 up against a 9x19. And Carl..... clips are for paper and hair..... magazines are for guns.


But I thought I would include this. The US Navy SEAL rules to a gun fight:

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance,or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading,and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.)

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone. Friendly to no one.

23. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4".

[Matt@RFR]

I am thinking of buying one. I like the 1911 models. Particularly Kimber & Springfield. The kimbers are a little more expensive, but I think are better guns. Was thinking 9mm because shells are cheaper. Who has one, what is it, & caliber? What is your opinion on Kimbers / Springfield & 9mm or .45?

Here's mine. Springfield 1911A1. I can't remember exactly what model it is, but I don't think they're offering it anymore. It's parkerized, and all I did was add the extended slide release, extended safety (non ambidextrous) and Uncle Mike's grip. I have fairly small hands, thus those modifications. The thing is dead reliable with any kind of round you want to put through it...I'm inside the 8 ring at 50 feet on my worst days, and I'm not that great of a shooter. You do have to be fairly agressive with these guns because they're heavy, but beyond that, they are just a joy to shoot.

It's proven itself well enough to be my carry gun, if that says anything.

My opinion on 9mm vs. .40S&W vs. .45ACP is that, for self defense, you want a big heavy round that will knock someone off their feet, but not go through them. Very important when there are other people around. I won't go into it, but I do have personal experience with this, and wouldn't choose anything other than the .45ACP.

[CarlC]

[quote=chicane67] And Carl..... clips are for paper and hair..... magazines are for guns.

[dcozzi]

I shot the HK and Sig and wound up with the Colt Gold Cup .45. It just feels right to me. Probably because it has some heft to it and the grip fits my hand well (don't have banana hands). It is also easy to shoot accurately without using the sights which is where a handgun will save your butt.
I went out with some friends when I got the gun and outshot them all with their HKs and Sigs Even they were more accurate with my Colt (although hesitant to admit it).
Just do not buy anything cheap or anything you have not shot first.


Got Beavis?

[Steve1968LS2]

I have a full size HK USP .45 ... I love this weapon. It shoots super smooth and has a double recoil buffer spring to reduce recoil. At first I didn't like the polymer guns, but I put on a Houge grip and the feel is much better now. The HK functions are very intuitive.. gotta love that German innovation



I have the stainless model that isn't made any longer.. funny part is that the gun is worth more now then when I got it.

It's mainly for taget shooting.. for Home defense I have a Benelli Nova 12 gauge.. :D

[Steve1968LS2]

[quote=CarlC]

And Carl..... clips are for paper and hair..... magazines are for guns.

"This is your weapon.. This is your gun.. One is for fighting.. the others for fun"

Name that movie.. ;)

[chicane67]

Name it ??? Hell... I lived it.......

[Jagarang]

I have no complaints....P229

[jy211]

I have no complaints....P229

Sig's are awesome...there are 5 or 6 of them in my family..

[EFI69Cam]

I have no complaints....P229