Overall LSX experiance?

[OldSchoolFormula]

Still debating on whether I want to go through with my LS1 swap and if it will jutify all the work and expense. I use my car as a daily driver, and it runs 13.50's@103 as is, and with the 200R, it gets between 17-19MPG freeway with a q-jet and the 3.08 rear gears. In town it's a measely 10MPG, but some of that can be attributed to my foot, and again the gears. I'm sure if I got a well calibrated q-jet, mileage would go up without impacting performance. Anyway, having a nice smooth running motor would be nice with no wam up issues or the like.. but modifying an LS1 is expensive, even by Pontiac standards. I figure a stock '01 LS1 will give me similar performance to my 400 now, even though it may make a little less power it should make it up in weight. It's just hard to swallow certain things here and there, I mean, tunes? $500?! Virtually everytime I decide to change something? That's...crazy. Installation costs are high as well, even if I do all my own work.



Anyway, this is probabaly a fairly broad question but does anyone have any info regarding mileage, and/or performance with their stock, or nearly stock LS1's with automatics in their swaps? What's your overall feeling after the swap? Do you think the swap may look quite dated in a few years as LT1 and very much more so, TPI'd setups look now? An LS1 would shave a significant amount of weight off the front end of my car, did anyone notice a dramatic handling or braking improvement from the motor alone? I guess I just need a little bit more input to help me venture off into this new, and very UNKNOWN world. I know the car will be a vastly better machine, but I don't know if it truly justifies itself, economically speaking? I mean my current $2000 200R4 didnt justify itself economically either, but it did in the sense that it REALLY transformed the car for the better. How much power will the stock 4L60 withstand before it starts to grenade itself? Did you notice a dramatic decrease in fuel economy after swapping to a "mild" cam, say those low 220ish grinds? Anyway, thanks a lot guy's.

[OldSchoolFormula]

13 views and not a responce in the LSX forum? C'mon guys.

[nitrovette]

Well i havent fired mine up yet but just waiting for the pcm to come.But since i already had a roller cammed tpi motor with a 700r4 in it with 3.70 gears and got 18-22 mpg ,i started thinking while swapping what the heck am i doing.The tpi motor ran so good tons of torque,but i just wanted something different,so i went for it.And your right the weight savings is alot,my car is lowered alot and now with the ls1 in it i gained 2 inchs of tire clearance back in the front wheel wells.So now i got to lower it again.Im sure when it fires up next week itll be worth it.

[harshman]

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=14070

[WS6]

what your going to find with automatics and LS engines is that the gas mileage will not be that good if you have a decent gear out back. 3.23s would be the best you can get and have good gas mileage. after that it starts to slip. a torque converter will help ruin gas mileage too. open road crusing will be pretty good though. the weight of your car allows you to run 3.23s and still do well performance wise. your cam choice will be more limited though of course. if your looking for a good street cam you'll be fine though for power. your gas milage will be maybe a little better than what it is now, but i wouldn't hope for anything significant. what octane does your 400 run on? the LS will have to run on 93. that could negate any extended gas mileage.

everything else is going to have to be your decision. the weight savings cant be denied, but whether five years from now will the LS still be cool? thats too subjective. I love LT motors. they look so much nicer than a stock LS engine. the plastic manifold just doesnt look good. painted it can look great, but the LT can still be made to look better. people think im crazy that id rather have an LT over an LS but last time I looked around I only saw everyone with an LS. so I like to be different. see how subjective this gets?

if i could make a suggestion. why not EFI the current motor? you didnt install a shaker scoop and hood on the car did you? you've got plenty of room if you didnt. its not the motor that makes it so turn key, its the fuel delivery system. it may be a simple throttle body injection system but that could be what you need. the savings compared to doing the LS swap could help you get those sweet aluminum heads you may have been eyeing.

all we can do is give you that facts on the engine in question. only you can decide if its right for you.

also you only "need" a tune after doing something major to the engine. many bolt on parts can be added without doing any tuning and you'll be fine. of course a good tune will compliment almost any quality modification, but it's not "needed". also just how often do you think you'll be swapping heads and cams? doing that requires a tune. anything lesser doesn't. you can swap from an LS1 to an LS6 intake and not need a tune as an example. if you have a good LS shop in your area then i am betting you'll find they wont charge you $500 everytime you might need something. if its something straight forward and simple they may just do it real quick for $50 or $100. anything that requires dyno or street time would cost more.

personally id EFI the poncho

oh and the 4l60E in stock form is no stronger than a mildy built 700r4 or 2004r. its an updated 700r4 with a computer controlling it thats it. in good condition, with a tuning that doesnt get the line pressures crazy, and with maybe a shift kit and simple upgrades it makes for a good street transmission. start drag racing it and launching hard with a high stall and you'll have issues.

[OldSchoolFormula]

The Poncho runs on 89. 91 is all we have out West. I'm not looking for any crazy mileage numbers, but I was under the impression that LS1 cars got ~18MPG in town stock. From what I've been hearing, 340RWHP or so is only bolt on's away.

EFI'ing the Pontiac is something I've always thought about doing, but it's not exactly cheap. It'd probabaly cost about the same to EFI my Pontiac as an LS1 swap would cost period. At this point in time, installing the LS1/4L60E stock should give me about the same performance, and after parting out the '01 and selling my Pontiac stuff, It looks as though I'll be ~1000 ahead. I don't want nor desire a big stall converter as this is simply my daily driver and I strive to keep it that way. If it wasn't I'd just go hog wild with the Pontiac 400. 110 MPH traps would be enough to keep me happy for a while, and I figure thats around ~360RWHP or so. More would be awesome but I still don't know the limits on the 4L60E. If it matters the car will not see drag radials nor slicks, though sticky street tires will be used. Are my performance goals realistic while keeping the stock heads, the stock converter, a stock 4L60E? I have 3.08's in the car right now and 3.73's waiting to be installed.

[OldSchoolFormula]

...or should I just go ahead and sell the 4L60E (are they worth anything?) and install my built 2004R instead? That'd save me a driveshaft mod. I'm assuming using the 2004R would simply require some simple deletion of all transmission references in the ECU?

[OldSchoolFormula]

And while we're on the subject, assumign I find a T56 swap setup, whats the T56 good too? It seems a lot of guys blow them up...

[nitrovette]

...or should I just go ahead and sell the 4L60E (are they worth anything?) and install my built 2004R instead? That'd save me a driveshaft mod. I'm assuming using the 2004R would simply require some simple deletion of all transmission references in the ECU?

since im using a 700r4 i had the pcm changed to 6 speed to make it work.

[69Myway]

Plain and simple. Once you go LSX, you won't EVER want to go back to anything else. Its value is in the pure simplicity of how it works and how efficient the entire assembly is in getting power to the back tires.

I am running a modified LS1 from a 2000 Trans Am connected to a 2,800 TCI stall converter routing through a rebuilt but totally stock 4L60E. All of this is running back to 3.5 gears on a Ford 9" axle. In my quest for balance of power and daily driver availability I went with a matched SLP Stage III head/cam/injector package with matched tuning. Performance is stunning. I am running Pacesetter 2000 Z28 non-emission headers ($225) with three tubes on the driver side modified to clear the rack shaft and black ceramic coating. Motor mounts from Brewers.

I do have one glitch in getting the lock up (not 4th gear) portion of the ECM programming to stay engaged. The ECM is picking up a missfire (common with cam swaps) and that disengages the lock up which is needed due to the 2,800 stall putting it in a slip condition at 65-70 mph. It is a minor issue right now. With that said I averaged 23 mpg running the a/c on full blast on the first major road trip and maintain around 17-19 mpg in town.

Installing the LS1 is no more difficult than putting in any other EFI combo other than getting your exhaust to fit and work for a reasonable price.

Right now and for at least 5 years into the future the LS platform is what the aftermarket is building for. You have an unbelievable amount of choices in cam/head/intake/tuning, and accessories to make these things fly. Bone stock they are amazing.

Don't feel like you have to mate it to a 6 speed. My auto is awesome and so easy to drive. When I want to zoom I just lay on the loud pedal and hang on. You are best suited to match it to the correct 4L60E made for a Gen III/IV so you have all the correct bellhousing bolts and distance from the flywheel to the torque converter. Otherwise you have to uses spacers and skip some bolts.

The oil pan is not hard to modify. I had a local welder cut and weld my pan for $60 (compared to $250 at Street & Performance).

Weight wise vs. handling and braking....I don't know for sure what difference is there.

The wow factor when you pop the hood is great too.

If you take your time and look around you will find the swap can be done on a reasonable budget. For example, there is a guy in Indiana that will tune the PCM for around $75 mail order. Pacesetter headers can be bought and used WAY cheaper than the $1,000 headers everybody else uses. Motor mounts can be made yourself or bought pretty cheap from Brewers. Stock Accessories can be used if you are willing to notch the frame.

ALSO, you can score a 5.3 or 6.0 truck motor much cheaper than a typical LS1/2 and do the same swap.

I hope that helps.

You can see more on my LSx swap at www.mcspeed.homestead.com

[nitrorocket]

Do the ls1, I did! I can talk all day long on how the LS1 is a better motor then any previous SBC. Hands down, you cant go wrong. There is nothing bad about them! Think about it.

To bad you are not local, I would happily tune your car!

[Stu Seitz]

If you want good mpg go with a 6spd. It's easier to install (wiring), work on, lighter and there is no replacement for banging gears!

Really I put my ls1 when I was 19 working at Costco, and it was a bitch both in time and the dent it put it my wallet. Trust me when your in the middle of installing it you will ask your self why, but trust me stay the course it's worth it. It's a good feeling when you dyno your car and it put 350 to wheels stock and it raises the car even though you put in lowering spring because it's so light.

The only advice that I would give you is this.

Don't buy anything from S&P, I bought there motor mount adapter plates, oil pan and headers. Why? Because they were the only company that was offering products that I needed. There motor mount adapter plates aren’t bad and move the engine back a little which is good (compared to BRP mounts which move it forward). ATS has motor mount adapter plates that come with poly mounts (S&P don’t come with anything) ok for me because I run solid mounts. There oil pan is crap, it’s a modified version of a stock f-body pan but they remove the baffling on top, once I find a buyer for my pan I’m buying an ATS pan. The headers are crap too, when I got them in the mail I took them out of the box saw them, then mailed them back. I ended up buying 4th gen f-body headers, pacesetters and modifying those then made my own x-pipe and exhaust. Hooker now sells ls1 swap headers.

Intake is easy, just find a shop that works on diesel trucks and get a 90 degree 4in. mandrel bent exhaust pipe and rout it into your fender.

You radiator needs to be modified can’t forget that vapor line that comes off the head.

Take time with your wiring make sure everything is grounded correctly.

Set aside 400-500 dollars for a good dyno tune (no mail order crap) after the install, worth every penny.

If you want performance order stuff from ATS www.t56kit.com. This would include tranny cross member, clutch master and everything needed. If you like chrome go to the many other companies.

You’re in Livermore, my parents live in San Ramon, PM me if you want me cell number I would be more then happy to help you out with the install/ show you my car.

[my69rocks]

The guys at Street & Performance are always ready to assist with any questions and put out a quality product. They've done plenty of projects without a windage tray. It doesn't seem to effect them. What are you worried about unless your cornering really hard.

[Damn True]

What are you worried about unless your cornering really hard.

Isn't that the point?

[Stu Seitz]

Isn't that the point?

Word; why would you put a lighter engine in your car if you didn't want to turn?

[68Formula]

I think you should go with the LS1 and I'll take the 2004R off your hands.

[68Formula]

Don't discourage the man, I want his trans.

[ItDoRun]

I've got a question concerning the front ride height after installing the LS1. I am currently buying parts little at a time to do this conversion. Right now, I'm concentrating on my front suspension, then I'll start locating the LS1/T56. I'm wanting to lower the front end 2" using the DSE coil springs. When I install the LS1, am I going to have that stock '65 Mustang look (squatting in the back)? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Stu Seitz]

I've got a question concerning the front ride height after installing the LS1. I am currently buying parts little at a time to do this conversion. Right now, I'm concentrating on my front suspension, then I'll start locating the LS1/T56. I'm wanting to lower the front end 2" using the DSE coil springs. When I install the LS1, am I going to have that stock '65 Mustang look (squatting in the back)? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Yes, the front of your car will go up a bit. How much is a question of what kind of engine you had in there before.

[ItDoRun]

It currently has a 350 in it with stock springs. I'm trying to avoid going to adjustable coil overs.