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  1. #261
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    Nov 2018
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    Oregon
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    Looking good! Wish my work area was that clean lol

  2. #262
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    Oct 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    387
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    Glad you like it. I'm ready to see it all painted!

    I feel like my work area is anything but clean, but it's kinda of a small area so that's probably why. I'm ready for a real shop of my own.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  3. #263
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    Nov 2018
    Location
    Oregon
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    161
    My small shop was built in 1931 and been used very hard over the years. I ran out of room years ago and have metal and car parts shoved in every nook and cranny. No matter how much I clean still looks dirty so been looking into tearing it down and building a shop. :D

  4. #264
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    We did that when I was a little kid. Never stopped holding wrenches since.

    I actually had an offer fall through on 1.6 acres a couple months back due to improper zoning. I'm still looking for another suitable spot. The whole idea was to build a shop so I can get better organized and build better projects. So if you can, I vote do it!
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  5. #265
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    la mesa, CA
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    220
    Quote Originally Posted by Sbeck09 View Post
    We did that when I was a little kid. Never stopped holding wrenches since.

    I actually had an offer fall through on 1.6 acres a couple months back due to improper zoning. I'm still looking for another suitable spot. The whole idea was to build a shop so I can get better organized and build better projects. So if you can, I vote do it!
    Just go buy a house and hanger on the small airstrip and live life peacefully.
    Follow my Instagram
    And my build on here
    check out Opentracker Racing Products

  6. #266
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    387
    Country Flag: United States
    Quote Originally Posted by Project Bike Truck View Post
    Just go buy a house and hanger on the small airstrip and live life peacefully.
    Would be kinda fun, but probably out of my budget. A hanger would certainly be big enough even if it was only made for a small plane. At the same time, trying to insulate and possibly cool that large of a space sounds painful. Haha...the joys of living in a major city in the desert.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  7. #267
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    Mar 2018
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    la mesa, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sbeck09 View Post
    Would be kinda fun, but probably out of my budget. A hanger would certainly be big enough even if it was only made for a small plane. At the same time, trying to insulate and possibly cool that large of a space sounds painful. Haha...the joys of living in a major city in the desert.
    I mean I donít know your budget but there was one not too long ago next to freeway end of the airstrip. It was hella temping.
    Follow my Instagram
    And my build on here
    check out Opentracker Racing Products

  8. #268
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    387
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    Alright we are finally back to where we were a couple month ago! Just kidding....we are way better off than the last setup. I LOVE the new arm arrangement and feel much more confident in it's functionality.

    Lower arms are missing one weld, the shock mount, and paint before they are 100% complete. Upper arms just need paint and I will have to final weld the A-plates that they mount to. I breathed a big sigh of relief last night as I locked up knowing that this is finally going to be done.

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    Final specs as it sits are: 0 degrees of static camber, 7 degrees of caster, and 8.5 degrees of anti-dive. I can add a ton more camber and caster should I choose. In 3 inches of wheel travel it gains 1.2 degrees of camber. This only requires 2 inches of shock stroke as best I can measure right now.

    As I mentioned in my previous post I have been trying to figure out how to address the tie rods since these GM based spindles were never supposed to work with this S197 front steer rack. I believe I figured it out! First I had to test with parts on hand.

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    Little trimming here and there and I ended up better off...

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    But you can all see the gross amount of bump steer. Fear not, I am on it! There is actually 2 issues with this right there. 1, I have no adjustment range left and I'm fairly sure it has some toe out (going to try and check later). 2, the tie rod angle has to be fixed asap. I just got off the phone with Flaming River (love those guys) and they offer an inner tie rod for this rack that has double the length of threads. So I'll just cut them down and I will then have adjustment to fix the toe. Those will be ordered right after I post this. To fix the other issue will require me to make a new rack mount that moves it higher because I don't have room inside the wheel for a longer stud on the steering arm. Hopefully I left enough room around the oil pan to be able to move the rack. Fingers crossed.

    What do you all think? Did I miss anything or do you have any suggestions here?
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  9. #269
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Installed some little parts on the rear suspension to start prepping to do all my shock mounts. Pretty exciting to think it can support itself soon. It's been a while. I didn't get any photos of that so you will all just have to wait.

    Something else I did was check tire clearance from lock to lock. Dang I've got some angle!

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    And it looks beefy with only the 275s so I can't wait to get 315s under this beast. I will say that I have absolutely no room for additional backspacing so the wider wheels will be all outboard. Luckily that should perfectly fill the wheel wells.

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    One thing to note....I've been trying to make sure I am setting up my Ackerman Angle correctly, but nobody just shows a freakin diagram in plain english. For a front steer rack like I have, are my steering arms actually supposed to angle toward the outside? I hope you guys haven't been letting me slip up...
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
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  10. #270
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
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    604
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    Looking good! I like seeing the progress!

    And to answer your question, yes. For a front steer application to have Ackerman the steering arms should be outboard of the ball joint, rear steer should be inboard. From your pictures, it looks like the arm is pretty well in line with the ball joint, so there is no (or little) Ackerman. If I recall those are A Body steering arms, which may have used the drag links to create ackerman. Or, it was the 60s and they didn't care as shown by the horrible camber curves those cars had originally. It's been a while since I've done chassis geometry, so somebody with more experience may have a better explanation.

    If your arms are inboard of the ball joint, you technically would have Anti-Ackerman. Some racers used this as it improved outer tire grip since that wheel has more force on it.
    Nelson
    1969 Chevelle "Cone Smasher" Family Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...uot?highlight=

    1984 "Rustang" GT, 5.0, 5 Speed Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...T-(Slow-Build)

  11. #271
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaceMFG View Post
    Looking good! I like seeing the progress!

    And to answer your question, yes. For a front steer application to have Ackerman the steering arms should be outboard of the ball joint, rear steer should be inboard. From your pictures, it looks like the arm is pretty well in line with the ball joint, so there is no (or little) Ackerman. If I recall those are A Body steering arms, which may have used the drag links to create ackerman. Or, it was the 60s and they didn't care as shown by the horrible camber curves those cars had originally. It's been a while since I've done chassis geometry, so somebody with more experience may have a better explanation.

    If your arms are inboard of the ball joint, you technically would have Anti-Ackerman. Some racers used this as it improved outer tire grip since that wheel has more force on it.
    Thanks for chiming in! I've spent an unhealthy amount of time searching for a simple answer. Haha. I just double checked and I guess the arm is basically in line with the ball joint.

    From what I understand the A body cars are rear steer with a drag link and even the rack swaps maintain rear steer. I'll swap my arms shortly and see if that works better when I turn lock to lock. I feel like with the longer wheelbase of the truck having Ackerman would be helpful in Autocross environments where direction changes are abrupt and tight. It's hard to measure by myself, but it looks like my wheelbase is about 113".
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  12. #272
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sbeck09 View Post
    Thanks for chiming in! I've spent an unhealthy amount of time searching for a simple answer. Haha. I just double checked and I guess the arm is basically in line with the ball joint.

    From what I understand the A body cars are rear steer with a drag link and even the rack swaps maintain rear steer. I'll swap my arms shortly and see if that works better when I turn lock to lock. I feel like with the longer wheelbase of the truck having Ackerman would be helpful in Autocross environments where direction changes are abrupt and tight. It's hard to measure by myself, but it looks like my wheelbase is about 113".
    On the A Bodys (at least for 69) they are front steer, here's a picture of our Chevelle chassis with the steering bits out in the open (minus the box). If I recall correctly, the steering arms only go on one way because the steering stops are built into them. However my parts are older than yours and may be different.

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    I know the first gen F & X body cars are rear steer, and that's one of the bad points of the chassis. Pretty much every aftermarket subframe converts them to front steer. The 2nd gen F body cars went to front steer as well. From my chassis classes, front steer is preferred because it puts the tie rods in tension where they are stronger compared to compression.

    Ackerman is mostly for slow speed maneuvering and probably isn't a huge concern for racing. Even in a tight autocross course, the inside tire will be lighter and have less steering input compared to the outer. For what it's worth, it is probably easier just to dial in some toe out to get better turn in for autocrossing and take it back out for street driving. That way it doesn't twitch around and drive you crazy lol.
    Nelson
    1969 Chevelle "Cone Smasher" Family Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...uot?highlight=

    1984 "Rustang" GT, 5.0, 5 Speed Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...T-(Slow-Build)

  13. #273
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    Oct 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Awesome info and pic! My parts may be newer, but some things never change. I just tried to flip the steering arms around and they only fit on one way. My only other real option is to make my own arms, but I would rather not. And yes tie rods are much stronger in tension than compression.

    I think you make a valid point to not focus as hard on this compared to the overall setup. It's just me trying to account for every little thing before I set everything in it's final place. Plus if I don't feel like I'm turning fast enough I can always stab the throttle. I'm sure 600+hp will bring the rear around at will.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
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  14. #274
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
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    604
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    I'd hope 600 HP would make the rear end loose, especially in a truck! Even our wimpy little 350 in our Chevelle can bring the back end around if you're not careful lol.
    Nelson
    1969 Chevelle "Cone Smasher" Family Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...uot?highlight=

    1984 "Rustang" GT, 5.0, 5 Speed Project
    https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...T-(Slow-Build)

  15. #275
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    Oct 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    387
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaceMFG View Post
    I'd hope 600 HP would make the rear end loose, especially in a truck! Even our wimpy little 350 in our Chevelle can bring the back end around if you're not careful lol.
    Yeah I was never planning on more than 450, but the engine builder and I kept talking and I wanted an engine that could take a ton of abuse in a stock block. Unfortunately (yeah right) making a strong motor usually means it runs more efficiently. In my case that meant more power than I planned on. Oh well...not mad about it.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  16. #276
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Little more work on the truck and a new part to finish up front suspension fab. Yes...I know I keep saying that, but I do need a sway bar. Shoutout to Speedway Engineering for this one. They aren't a sponsor, but I chatted with them back at Goodguys Scottsdale and just got around to calling to see what we could do. They are incredibly nice and knowledgeable plus their prices are VERY fair. I looked at a ton of options and they ended up being the cheapest and best fitting somehow. This bar with this length of arms is 375lbs of resistance (I think). I can go up to like 425ish if I recall correctly. Right now it's purely guessing on my part so I left room to go up or down in stiffness.

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    Not sure where to mount it yet. I'll probably be better off mounting it under the frame rails. Also, should I bend the arms out toward the lower shock mount? My brain is telling me that it won't be very effective this far toward the pivot point on the control arm. I can ask the neighbor to bring his torch and try to bend it out somehow.

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    Then I got to work laying out my shock mounts and mockup shocks. These have all been set to the 12.5" length that my ridetech shocks will be at ride height. One big question I have here is whether or not the angle of the shock matters at all on a double wishbone setup like this? The front is about 3 degrees leaned back and the rear is about 2 degrees forward. I did it purely for clearance in the rear and just to make it look uniform up front.

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    No I'm not mounting the upper shock like this, but it just made sense for the purposes of seeing how it fits. I'll have to build something out of plate to hold it away. I haven't worked that solution out yet. I'm waiting until the lower mount is tacked on.

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    You can see how tight the rear is on the S550s when you run coilovers. And this is with the ridetech swaybar relocation brackets, endlink flip, and their lower shock mounts from their own coilover kit. I really had to sweet talk them for these separate, but it's super helpful.

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    If I can find an answer by tomorrow afternoon I'll be burning these mounts in after work. Then I can finish weld all the suspension for good. Kinda hard to believe I'm actually that close to done measuring everything 50x on this.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
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  17. #277
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    Oct 2018
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Unfortunately I found no definitive answers either way on fore/aft shock angle importance with this type of suspension, not that mine are extremely off vertical. So I figured I'd just go for it. And voila...just like that all 4 shocks now have a home and I can plug in all the measurements and have my shocks custom built. Bear in mind...none if this is final welded yet and I do plan to add in a number of plates to help brace everything better. I know these mounts take a beating.

    First the front:

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    And of course the rear:

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    Next item I am attacking is the driveshaft loop that will tie into the X-brace. From there it's just a lot of plating and welding. I ran out of shield gas today plus it's 105 out so time for a break. I'm feeling much more accomplished and motivated to get this done compared to two weeks ago.
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  18. #278
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    112
    Great thread with great information. Your build is inspiring, keep the updates coming.
    Doug

    1970 chevelle, carb'd, turbo'd 383ci with a tremec tko.

  19. #279
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    Oct 2018
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    Phoenix, AZ
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    387
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    Quote Originally Posted by dug View Post
    Great thread with great information. Your build is inspiring, keep the updates coming.
    Thank you so much! I'm glad you're enjoying it. This has certainly tested me in every way since there are no off-the-shelf chassis parts. I'm excited to move onto fitting the body back and getting the power train fully installed. Things should move a bit faster over the next couple months. I need to hear this engine!
    '95 F-150 track ready street beast
    Want more projects/photos? Check my Instagram

  20. #280
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    115
    Country Flag: Belgium
    Been watching before and said it before, amazing how you do this,
    Bunch of car wizzards on here.

    I need to hear that engine running too :D, so post a video when its running

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