Why change powerplants

[Northern Goat]

Please don't take this as an insult. I am just trying to understand the thought process of changing engine brands.

I feel that an engine is the soul of a car. So if you want a Chevy engine buy a Camaro, you want Pontiac power buy a FB...

I just don't understand why people feel the need to change powerplants. I love my Pontiac and I live with the fact that I pay way more for engine parts and am limited to the parts available to me. That is because I wanted a GOAT not a Chevelle.

This Red 1970 GTO is awesome and drew me to PT the second I saw it but totally lost me when I saw that the owner had cheaped out and and put in a crate engine, why not stick with your decision and out some cash into your stock powerplant? The power is there if you are willing to put in the work.

I just don't get why so many people in the PT world feel that they have to *******ize a car. Why not just buy a chevy if that is the powerplant you choose?

Sorry for the rant.

[Matt@RFR]

By your logic, you'd better stay away from ATS, GW, DSE, Wilwood,etc, etc etc. None of those brands came stock on any of these cars either. What's the difference?

Why not change the motor? I like SBC's. Allways have, and allways will. Hell, if I had a '98 Camaro, I'd toss the LS1 and throw in a SBC. That's who I am. I like my motors to try to rip my heart out through my mouth when they're idling. I consider nitrous and forced induction to be cheating. I like stiff 7 1/4", three disc clutches. I like my motors to idle no lower than 1200 RPM. I like my motors to say, "That's it?" at 8500 RPM. I like Ford Falcons. I like Chevy II's. I like '34 Ford Trucks. Guess what motor I'd put in any of those cars.

If a SBC doesn't "do it" for you, then you need more timing in it.

[protour_chevelle]

By your logic, you'd better stay away from ATS, GW, DSE, Wilwood,etc, etc etc. None of those brands came stock on any of these cars either. What's the difference?

Why not change the motor? I like SBC's. Allways have, and allways will. Hell, if I had a '98 Camaro, I'd toss the LS1 and throw in a SBC. That's who I am. I like my motors to try to rip my heart out through my mouth when they're idling. I consider nitrous and forced induction to be cheating. I like stiff 7 1/4", three disc clutches. I like my motors to idle no lower than 1200 RPM. I like my motors to say, "That's it?" at 8500 RPM. I like Ford Falcons. I like Chevy II's. I like '34 Ford Trucks. Guess what motor I'd put in any of those cars.

If a SBC doesn't "do it" for you, then you need more timing in it.

Ditto!

-Matt

[Northern Goat]

By your logic, you'd better stay away from ATS, GW, DSE, Wilwood,etc, etc etc. None of those brands came stock on any of these cars either. What's the difference?

Why not change the motor? I like SBC's. Allways have, and allways will. Hell, if I had a '98 Camaro, I'd toss the LS1 and throw in a SBC. That's who I am. I like my motors to try to rip my heart out through my mouth when they're idling. I consider nitrous and forced induction to be cheating. I like stiff 7 1/4", three disc clutches. I like my motors to idle no lower than 1200 RPM. I like my motors to say, "That's it?" at 8500 RPM. I like Ford Falcons. I like Chevy II's. I like '34 Ford Trucks. Guess what motor I'd put in any of those cars.

If a SBC doesn't "do it" for you, then you need more timing in it.

Your obviously missing the point. I have tons of aftermarket goodies in my car, but suspension, steering and brake tidbits do not make a car, after all most GM's shared all those stock parts. The engine is what seperates a Chevy from a Pontiac, a Pontiac from an Olds, and so.

I'm not knocking Chevy power what so ever. All I am sayig is that if Chevy power is what you want buy a Chevy.

[protour_chevelle]

Your obviously missing the point. I have tons of aftermarket goodies in my car, but suspension, steering and brake tidbits do not make a car, after all most GM's shared all those stock parts. The engine is what seperates a Chevy from a Pontiac, a Pontiac from an Olds, and so.

I'm not knocking Chevy power what so ever. All I am sayig is that if Chevy power is what you want buy a Chevy.

Your thoughts are pretty specific to a certain crowd... Look in the LSX Hybrid section on LS1tech. You name it, it has an LS1. From WRX's, RX7's, Volvo's, Miata's, Trikes, Mustangs, etc...

Some people like the style of a car, but sometimes its just more feasable(sp?) to run a different powerplant.

Sure a numbers matching engine is cool, but IMO its not worth it to me to spend the numbers matching prices for average performance.

-Matt

[ProTeal55]

My 2cents on the topic....

I think it makes sense to get as much Horsepower per dollar as you can , and this is done with a Chevy based motor. Weather it be a SBC or BBC.

While I think it is impressive that some dude makes
800 N/A horsepower from a Poncho motor , just think how much power he could of made from a BigBlock Chevy ?

Prob. allot more.........

[Northern Goat]

I'm not a numbers guy. I have modified my car with amny aftermarket parts, I just keep the block and heads Pontiac (not #'s matching). I guess I am a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to this issue. I always respect the time, effort and craftmanship that goes into a car even if I have issues with it, so don't get me wrong. It just hurts to see a perfectly good pontiac get ruined by an engine swap. Your on the good side buddy everyone wants your power. Just thinj how it would feel to see people swapping Hyundai motors into Chevys. LOL.

[GBodyGMachine]

I have a regal with a chevy powerplant. I am not a huge fan of the monte carlo, but wanted a G-Body. I run a 383 stroker, a great motor in my opinion.
I have always been a fan of chevy. Correct me if Im wrong, but they were the first company to make one horsepower per cubic inch.
I love the car, and it always makes people look twice. I like my car, my way, whether it be useing chevy powerplants in buicks, or bear aftermarket brakes, or a twin turbo setup.
Just my $0.02.

Jeff

PS. My lic plate is REGALSS

[Ralph LoGrasso]

When building your car for improved performance and capability (pro-touring), why not upgrade the engine to something more efficient with respect to both power and the monetary facet?

[Steve1968LS2]

Actually there is no such thing anymore as a CHEVY or PONTIAC engine.. they are all GM CORPORATE engines..

So, by that logic, Bill's Goat is running a GM engine.. Just like a new GTO or 4th gen Trans Am does..

[Roger Poirier]

I'm not a numbers guy. I have modified my car with amny aftermarket parts, I just keep the block and heads Pontiac (not #'s matching). I guess I am a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to this issue. I always respect the time, effort and craftmanship that goes into a car even if I have issues with it, so don't get me wrong. It just hurts to see a perfectly good pontiac get ruined by an engine swap. Your on the good side buddy everyone wants your power. Just thinj how it would feel to see people swapping Hyundai motors into Chevys. LOL.

Chevy Guys,

You have to own a older (muscle car) Pontiac car to understand. These cars have more character to them then most. Nicer interiors, better looking body styles, more detail from GM was put into the car. A lot more history to the muscle car era then others. However, they are not the fastest. It just goes with the territory. Pontiac car, Pontiac engine. Old school, yes, but I like it that way with these cars.

R.P.

[Northern Goat]

That is exactly the point I am making. By changing engines you totally destroythe soul of that cat. It's not as big an issue with cars produced after the late 70's because we went towards the 'corporate engine", but the engine is very important to the cars of the earlier era.

Do you really think there would be so many new "GTOs" collecting dust on dealer lots if they had truly respected history, instead of buying Wangers off with a new toupee and hoping we would swallow this car up.

[Bill Howell]

I can only speak for myself, but here is my take on the subject. Being from the old school I know where you are coming from, I have been part of the chalk mark, # matching crowd myself.
However, as my signature says, protouring is to improve things, all things about our cars. When I started the goat project, there was no motor, or at least one I was interested in using. The LS stuff is what is hot right now and readily avalible. As Steve said, LS is corporate, not brand specific. I remember in 1977 buying Pontiacs new with Oldsmobile engines, and visa versa. Or both with chevy engines.
Anyway, not only was I looking for performance with the goat, I wanted gas mileage too. What better way to accomplish all this than with a LS motor.
To argue an LS is not Pontiac is pretty weak, since the Fourth gen cars came with them from 98-03.
I guess it comes down to this, there is no wrong way to build your car, as long as it is safe. So whatever floats your boat is fine, just respect the next guy the same way you want his respect. I really see no difference in aftermarket brakes or suspension parts or engine choice. All these cars are 30 years old or more, so not many will have the parts they left the factory with anyway. I want to replace my old, worn out parts with the best I can afford, the most modern I can afford. The goat got an LS because if fit that criteria. :icon996:

[Matt@RFR]

Just thinj how it would feel to see people swapping Hyundai motors into Chevys.

So tell me, what are your thoughts on putting a 455 in a Hyundai? I happen to have plans to do exactly that, except with a SBC.

The thing you fail to realise is that you asked a "help me understand your opinion" question, but you're still trying to defend your opinion. That won't work dude.

In any case, it's just a bunch of opinions and personal preferences. You'll get 10 different answers, and all 10 are correct answers.

Someday, I'm gonna go to the Mopar Nats with a Mopar of some sort with a Ford 9", a SBC, and anything else that I can think of that isn't a Mopar product, just to piss those folks off. Why? Because I can, and because that's what makes me happy. If you're happy with you poncho stuff, just stick with it and don't try to understand car-*******izing people like me.

[redsand]

Owning a 77 and 80 trans am, I can attest to what it cost to keep the motor pontiac. It was a significantly more expensive to build the motor than a chevy, but it was just a choice I made. I have been to several pontiac shows where if you are not all pontiac(Older cars) you were shoned from the field. I honestly did it because I did not want to screw with the motor mounts!! and it came with a 301 non turbo!! Simple as that.

I wouldn't say that pontiacs are any more detailed than others. Sometimes a little more cheesy than camaros. I know you guys are speaking about a older cars, but I can honestly say that if smokey and the bandit was filmed with a camaro with a special striping package and a scoop, we would be seeing these cars @ 10,000 + like the current trans ams.

Honestly it comes to reliability and tuning. I would much rather have a 502, built and dynoed with a warranty than my 400.

[Matt@RFR]

These cars have more character to them then most. Nicer interiors, better looking body styles, more detail from GM was put into the car. A lot more history to the muscle car era then others.

...and the first thing I would do to a car like that is cut the floor completely out and sell all the interior and suspension. All that matters to me is if I like the body style....the rest will be my own ideas and preferences.

Pontiac car, Pontiac engine. Old school, yes, but I like it that way with these cars.

A happy car owner/builder is what's important. That's it. And I'm glad you've found that sweet spot for yourself.

By changing engines you totally destroythe soul of that cat.

Who's soul is more important, yours or the cars? My particular soul requires a minimum 13:1 SBC. Yours evidently requires a poncho motor in a poncho car. Bitchin. I'm glad we got that cleared up.

[parsonsj]

I used to own a 69 Pontiac GTO. It was probably my favorite car with a 400 and 4 speed. I ported the heads, put in a cam, rebuilt the bottom end, etc. All this in the late 70s/early 80s. I loved that car! When I saw Andrew Borodin's 70, it made me miss it even more.

That being said, if I ever get another one, I'm tossing that lousy Pontiac engine and swapping in a BBC or an LSx.

Why? Because the soul of a car doesn't exist. There is no such thing. It's all in your mind. And I know (it's a fact) that a BBC or an LSx is superior technology to the Pontiac engines of the 60s and 70s. But that's just me.

jp

[Northern Goat]

Thanks for the little chat. I hope Matt does well at the Mopar Nats.

I do appreciate the work you guys do and the advice you have given me to date.

P.S. If anyone wants to unload a Ponco motor you know who to call.

[zbugger]

So, is it wrong that I want to put a supercharged northstar v-8 in my old '65 Buick Special? If you want to take away the "soul" of a car, modify the body to death, or better yet, crush it. That will kill it. Putting a different engine in the car is just that. Putting a different engine in the car. Now, that's just my view. You are certainly allowed to have your own views and ideas.

[Matt@RFR]

I think, wait.....yeah, I think we just had ourselves the very first 'opinion' thread that didn't turn into a pissing match. Nice!

I hope Matt does well at the Mopar Nats.

I'd do better bringing a Vespa. I couldn't care less about trophies or recognition anyway.....I wonder how much those trophies would go for on ebay???

Your last post read like a fairwell post. I hope it isn't, but if it is, I hope you take away the fact that everybody agrees that you're car is perfect with that poncho bad boy under the hood. It's perfect for you, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Group hug guys?









































Fags.