My Frankenstine front end

[Motoracer838]

Or why you don't see people using C-4 spindles on S10/g body's...

I'll be the first to admit I got sloppy with this truck, making more than my fair share of bad choices, in the mess there are a couple of things I did that will help in the next phase. I'll start with what I have done, much of it stems from part's I already had on hand.



The truck is a '94 2wd S10 Blazer. I have done the following.
S10 p-u front frame graft, (the suspension pickup points are aprox 2" lower in the frame of the Blazer than the p-u, someone at GM seemed to think the 2wd's needed to sit at the same nosebleed height as the 4wd... Ran another oddity durring the graft, the 2wd frame behind the kickup is 4" tall, the 2wd and 4wd Blazer frame's are 6", . much lower and I'll be getting hung up on speed bumps... :( )
Early C-4 spindles and brakes (Had them on hand and got another 1 3/4" drop due to the location of the stub/bearing relative to the lower balljoint and bigger brakes, this turned out to be a bad idea...)
Moog 5664 springs
KYB Monomax shocks
Stock Blazer sway bar, 1.14 dia
Custom A arms to make it work
In the rear.
Belltech 3"drop springs w/ 1" blocks
KYB Monomax shocks
2nd gen S10 Blazer rear swaybar, .90 dia
Rolling on 16"X8" Trans Am wheels with 225/50/16 and 245/50/16 Riken Raptors
The truck is powered by a mild sbc 350 (adding a bunch of weight to the front...Building another with aluminum heads and waterpump, as well as moving the battery back.)

My biggest mistake was not taking the time to plot out the suspension geometry, if I had I would have seen it for the nightmare it was to become... I was blinded by the fact that the C-4 lower balljoints fit the S10 lower A arm. first weird thing to come up, the Stub/bearing is not centered for and aft on the SAI, it is about 3/4" to the rear, forcing me to move the lower arms forward to get the wheels centered in the wheel openings. (This will help as I undo the damage)

Second, the steering arms are in a very different location than on the metric spindles, forcing me to notch the frame for clearance and having to fabricate adapters to tie the C-4 outer tierods to the Blazer linkage.

Third, (This was a complete surprise) When I did the mock up work to create the A-arms, I had the frame sitting on blocks to establish ride height with a bare block and trans case, When I did the work to build the A-arms, I was shooting for factory alignment settings, (didn't know better at the time, a big thanks to Ron and lance for their very educational thread on Lance's Monte...) I was shocked to see how much the frame rails rolled in when I put the complete engine and trans in the truck. my first thought was, "I'll never hit the alignment", I hate it when I'm right :(... second thought was, "now I know why the Moog problem solver offset cross shafts exist, too bad I used them facing the other way when I built the arms.



In the next post I'll bring you up to speed on what I already have and what I think I need, (will be looking for input on the package)
cheers Beers n Gearz, Joe

[Motoracer838]

A little more about the truck and why I need a phase 2, the combination has lead to some handling issues that can best be described as "twitchy" and evil with a bit of Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde... Here are my observations,
A good amount of bumpsteer, made worse by shocks that blow through the valving on even a moderate hit, taking 1 1/2 - 2 cycles to regain it's composure and (what I think is) something weird in the camber curve that throws a bit of lateral motion in for good measure. What I gained in brakes I more than gave up in handling.

In spite of it's "anti social behavior", it's my go to ride, I do want to try my hand at autocross and OUSCI (they're going to be here at PPIR next weekend), but it's first mission is driver. Soo, my plan so far is to return to closer to oem metric for a starting point.

Here's what I have got so far...

A set of metric dropped spindles, the drop allows the same ride height as current, give or take a 1/4".
most of the parts to do the LS brakes on the front, need brackets and pads. (Get even bigger brakes along with dual piston calipers.
A set of C-6 Vette wheels in 17 X 81/2 with 245/45/17 for the front and 18 X 91/2 with 295/35/18 rear.
Second gen 33mm (1 1/4" up an 1/8" from what I have, for less than $20.) front sway bar.
Still need outer tierods/bumpsteer kit, (leaning towards bumpsteer kit.) lower balljoint's, (thinking about tall joints to help get it down a bit more.), shocks and upper A-arms, since I need A-arms and all the parts, a set of aftermarket arms make sense. Who's I'm not sure on yet... Don't want to spend more than I need to, but will spend where needed.

After my disappointment in the KYB Monomax shocks, (it's, of course the front that don't work for crap, the backs are fine, Having said that, once the demons have been exorcised, the back will probably need better. had a set on a Dakota R/T that worked well...). I'm leaning towards the Viking Warrior, but can't seem to find much feedback on them.

I'd like to think I'm on the right track, But as I've shown, sometimes can't be trusted to make the right choice ;) and need expert advice...

Joe

[Motoracer838]

Suggestion's, comments???

Joe

[Ron Sutton]

Suggestion's, comments???

Joe

While I can't speak for everyone, most of us are hesitant to just start throwing out suggestions on what to change. I think you may get more interaction & input if you ask specific questions.

[mytmouz]

G body right side speedway adjustable uppers for both sides, the drop spindles and the LS brake conversion. I would hold off on the tall ball joint and the bump steer kit until i had the other installed and tried it...

[Motoracer838]

So, here's where I'm at.
I'm going to wait on tall balljoints until I've done the other work and see how it sits and works.

I have got the 1 1/4" sway bar ($18 at pull n pay, don't let anybody tell you its specific to the ZQ8 option)
Need upper a-arms, my choices are (based partially on cost.) I've seen the cheapo speedway race arms, don't like the steel on steel bushings for a daily driver... I've narrowed my choices down to...

Summit's in house arms, (look a lot like ridetech's)
QA-1's street arms, (Speedway as these on sale $362.99)
BMR's arms, (the fabricator in me likes these the most)

for shocks my choices are...
Hocthkis Fox's sa
ridetech' fox's sa(I'm assuming the valving is specific to each brand...)
Viking Warrior's da (These seem like the best bang for the buck, but I need input...)

I'm ready to pull the trigger on parts could use a little input on my choices, and am I missing any choices in the price range i'm looking at...

Cheers Beers n Gearz, Joe

Edit, I see I've become another victum to photosuckit...

[Ron Sutton]

So, here's where I'm at.

I have got the 1 1/4" sway bar ($18 at pull n pay, don't let anybody tell you its specific to the ZQ8 option)
Need upper a-arms, my choices are (based partially on cost.) I've seen the cheapo speedway race arms, don't like the steel on steel bushings for a daily driver... I've narrowed my choices down to...

Summit's in house arms, (look a lot like ridetech's)
QA-1's street arms, (Speedway as these on sale $362.99)
BMR's arms, (the fabricator in me likes these the most)

for shocks my choices are...
Hotchkis Fox's sa
ridetech' fox's sa(I'm assuming the valving is specific to each brand...)
Viking Warrior's da (These seem like the best bang for the buck, but I need input...)

I'm ready to pull the trigger on parts could use a little input on my choices, and am I missing any choices in the price range i'm looking at...

Cheers Beers n Gearz, Joe

Edit, I see I've become another victum to photosuckit...

If your budget can afford it, the monotube shocks will perform better than twin tube shocks.
otube shocks respond 5x quicker, so the tire follows the asphalt surface better, which provides more grip & a better ride.

[Motoracer838]

If your budget can afford it, the monotube shocks will perform better than twin tube shocks.
otube shocks respond 5x quicker, so the tire follows the asphalt surface better, which provides more grip & a better ride.

Thanks Ron, this is the kind of input I can sink my teeth into, I knew the twin tubes were a compromise but I didn't realize how much. The ridetech/fox monotubes are so close in price that the choice becomes much clearer, (missed a great sale on the Hotchkis shocks a couple of weeks ago, just didn't have enough info at the time to make an educated decision). the fact that the adjuster for rebound will be easy to get to is a bonus...

Joe

[Motoracer838]

Parts are ordered, getting the following.

BMR upper arms
UMI bumpsteer kit
ridetech/Fox shocks

Still need some minor parts, wheel bearings and lower ball joints, I can see doing the swap over a weekend and putting the Trans Am wheels back on for now, (I need to have adapters made for the Vette wheels, and don't have room in the shop to mock up the wheels to determine depth of the adapters right now), probably mount the Vette wheels this winter when I drop in the new engine.

I do need to start thinking about the rear, the stock one is an open 7.5 with 3.42 gears and drum brakes, the fact that I haven't already killed it is a miracle... I have a couple of options,

Ford Explorer 8.8 with disc brakes, 3.73 gears and traclock, The rear is 3" wider than the 7.5, (should come real close to eliminating the adapters for the rear, need to redrill the axles and rotors to 4.75 bc.) This is about as close to a "bolt in" as one can get without ordering a custom rear. There's a lot of bang for the buck here and relatively easy...

Now for the "Mad Scientist" way.

IRS, using C5 parts with a latter Explorer IRS 8.8 diff, again with 3.73 and traclock.
I already have a complete set of C5 parts ready to go, will need coilovers and custom axles.

For this to be a viable option, I would need to go to the wrecking yard and get a Blazer frame back half and set it up on the fab table to build the crossmember/diff mount and any other bits to put it in the truck. I don't want to do anything that will take the truck off the road for an extended lenght of time... (Never mind what a pain in the a__ it would be to try to do it under the truck...

Decision's, decisions... Joe

[Motoracer838]

Update, the shocks arrived today, (Thanks George at ridetech) went ahead and installed them and the 1 1/4" sway bar. after a short test drive, the shocks are the best $385 I've spent in some time. I still need to do the rest of the parts, but just adding the shocks has made for a big improvement. (getting control over the movement of the suspension has really helped with the bumpsteer/twitchyness.) Don't get me wrong, it's not a cure for a bad setup, still needs the rest of the parts, but it helps, and I've barley started to work with the damping adjustments...

Joe

[MonzaRacer]

As for a decent rearend try looking for a ZR2 s10 rear, they are all, 8.5", 3.73, and the width allows using newer style wheels. My 75 Monza had s10 rwd rearend with 15x8 4 in bs with cut down F body rotors as spacers and 255/60, When I went to my 77 I installed same rearend in it, used 15x8.5 3.5 bs Outlaw II wheels, After doing the math I figured out that going from the 2wd s10 rearend to the ZR2 would allow me to use Corvette wheels on my Monza with zero cutting.
As for my frontend I converted to 5 lug with S10 spindles and Bob Gumms adapters but intend to upgrade to the newer S10 ZQ8 spindles and adapt on Corvette wheels, This allows use of S10/Gbody bolt ons from just about any company with zero issues. And anything working for Gbody will transfer to S10. Same front end.

[Motoracer838]

MonzaRacer, thanks for the heads up on the ZR2 rear end, at this point I'm leaning towards the IRS, (but I have a lot of other things going on and probably should keep this one simple.) another consideration is cost, between the IRS diff, custom axles and coilovers, I'll have at least $2,000 in the rear and a bunch of time. (ok, so the IRS might not be the best for time and budget.)

Joe

[Motoracer838]

The rest of the parts are on the way, (Wow, I just realized, when done all that will be left of the current setup will be the lower a arms, springs and most of the steering linkage...) The big trick now is finding the time to hang the parts and get it aligned.

From the "I suspected this would happen" files, the ridetech front shocks are making the KYB rear shocks insufficient.

Joe