DSE control arms vs Summit control arms

[MCB Matt]

USA made arms or BUST, literally!

All we sell are US made arms, the lawsuits over $300 China arms is not worth it. We would never sell inferior parts to our customers and risk their saftey to make a buck! These arms have been proven to fail! They come in to the hands of distributors (direct importers) at less than $100/set of 4!! What kind of quality bushings, ball joints, shafts, and most importantly labor, could possibly be put into them at the $?!



Matt

[CamaroMike]

First place I looked gets $21 to buy a single foot of 2" od name brand delrin rod. Buy a couple feet price goes down..
One of the other nice things about delrin is how easy it machines. Load up the bar feeder, and press the green button and go.

I understand everybody's got to make a living, but saying that a couple bucks of plastic should cost over $100 is just crazy.

How much does the machine cost?

[krom]

How much does the machine cost?

$40-$60 per hour if you sub it out. Less if you have enough work to justify a machine in house

[badazz81z28]

How much does the machine cost?

Materials are usually not that high, but quality machines and maintenance cost money, labor cost money, advertising cost money....it cost more to make a product than some think it does. Plus it's not just delrin,there's an aluminum sleeve too and it must be perfect tolerance

[UMI Tech]

At UMI we build handmade ultra premium suspension products similar to DSE (who we consider a friend-petitor). You would not believe the build sheet to build a set of a-arms.

Also for premier companies, we are held to a higher standard. "My arm feels like it has some drag". "One hole is .518" and the other is .519", I want my money back". "I used a nuclear laser alignment titanium frame jig and my wheelbase is .002" off. I know I bought these 5 years ago but can I have my money back (and I'm the ninth owner and I'm sure my car has never been wrecked)".

Imported arm distributors have neither the experience nor inclination to fix these fine details and offer the proper tech support.

ramey

[Build-It-Break-It]

Does anyone have any proven failure photos of the China arms? I always see people talk about them but have never seen any photos of the failed arms? Also what caused the failure in the arms? There's lots of variables to any parts installed by the end user.

[UMI Tech]

Does anyone have any proven failure photos of the China arms? I always see people talk about them but have never seen any photos of the failed arms? Also what caused the failure in the arms? There's lots of variables to any parts installed by the end user.

I know for us it's usually alignment trouble and broken ball joints.

[Rod]

here is a picture of the consequences of the failed ball joint....a friend of mine bought Global west uppers and ebay lowers ...and the lower ball joint fail after 6 weeks... he was lucky it was at a low speed(in a parking lot) structurally the arm looked fine the ball joint separated but he needed new inner fender, new fender and paint....








here are the arms he bought!

[Build-It-Break-It]

I get that the ball joints fail and that's what I've read in other forums to. I want to see the actual control arm failures that I see people always posting about.

I see people always posting that the welds/material used is inferior but never have seen a failed weld nor material.

Not defending them in anyway shape or form. I just want to see actual multiple failed control arms which I've seen zero besides the ball joint issue.

[badazz81z28]

I get that the ball joints fail and that's what I've read in other forums to. I want to see the actual control arm failures that I see people always posting about.

I see people always posting that the welds/material used is inferior but never have seen a failed weld nor material.

Not defending them in anyway shape or form. I just want to see actual multiple failed control arms which I've seen zero besides the ball joint issue.

I asked the same thing about China wheels...I don't think you will find an instance with this crowed. But I can say take a China arm run it hard for a few seasons, strip the paint and NDI the welds that will tell you how they are holding up. I bet you'll find cracks

[Proforged]

These look more or less the same, too.

[TheJDMan]

It would be interesting to see an actual China arm dissected and weld tested to see exactly how it compares to a quality USA made arm.

[Build-It-Break-It]

It would be interesting to see an actual China arm dissected and weld tested to see exactly how it compares to a quality USA made arm.

I agree. I think people forget that people come from all over the world to the United states to find work/a better life. Just because your working in other countries doesn't take away your talents.

[Rick Dorion]

It would be interesting to see an actual China arm dissected and weld tested to see exactly how it compares to a quality USA made arm.

I thought someone on chevelles.com did that. I'll have to search.

[badazz81z28]

I agree. I think people forget that people come from all over the world to the United states to find work/a better life. Just because your working in other countries doesn't take away your talents.

It's not the people. It's quality controls, standards, safety requirements, quality materials. Workmanship can play a part, all depend on who they are hiring and what they are being paid

[BonzoHansen]

here is a picture of the consequences of the failed ball joint....a friend of mine bought Global west uppers and ebay lowers ...and the lower ball joint fail after 6 weeks... he was lucky it was at a low speed(in a parking lot) structurally the arm looked fine the ball joint separated but he needed new inner fender, new fender and paint....








here are the arms he bought!

Man those look like GW arms too.

[David Pozzi]

Here are a few China ball joint failures I found:

http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...hp?tid/291008/
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/16-b...ntrol-arm.html
http://www.ncrs.org/forums/showthrea...-Joints-Beware
http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/in.../t-333444.html
http://oldholden.com/node/90595

[F-Body International]

The reason why you likely don't see issue is likely because Most people that race or abuse their cars look to well known quality branded parts. We are getting to a point where China parts will run USA companies out of business. That's why I really hate people advocating for brands like PTFB, it's all rebranded stuff from China or Taiwan.

I wouldn't call PTFB China parts. I, like you, have not had the best experience with some of PTFB Dave's parts. I live near his shop and will tell you that he does a lot of fabrication. Me and Dave have even had a few negative exchanges online and he's called me out on another forum. He does outsource things like springs and fittings but I will tell you that he picks up a welder and fabricates other things like the subframe connectors and g-braces. After my experiences, I would say that there is a couple things from PTFB that I would use and a few other things I would not.

I still have the PTFB solid body mounts and g braces on my car but I'm finishing the rest of my project with Hotchkis Suspension. Hotchkis is somewhat pricey for bolt on replacement but it's far cheaper than the other companies that sell full replacement subframes, full frames, etc.

[badazz81z28]

K

I wouldn't call PTFB China parts. I, like you, have not had the best experience with some of PTFB Dave's parts. I live near his shop and will tell you that he does a lot of fabrication. Me and Dave have even had a few negative exchanges online and he's called me out on another forum. He does outsource things like springs and fittings but I will tell you that he picks up a welder and fabricates other things like the subframe connectors and g-braces. After my experiences, I would say that there is a couple things from PTFB that I would use and a few other things I would not.

I still have the PTFB solid body mounts and g braces on my car but I'm finishing the rest of my project with Hotchkis Suspension. Hotchkis is somewhat pricey for bolt on replacement but it's far cheaper than the other companies that sell full replacement subframes, full frames, etc.

I would buy summit arms before I bought PTFB. Atleast once you junked the cheap BJs (which they both have) the summit arm looks like legit design.

[BMR Sales]

I agree. I think people forget that people come from all over the world to the United states to find work/a better life. Just because your working in other countries doesn't take away your talents.

Metallurgy is totally different in what you can use in China vs. the USA. China buys scrap metal from the US by the Boatfull, melts it down, mixes in crap that they have and there you go. I know for certain that many coatings they use (not PowderCoat) are extremely Toxic.

So, it's not just about Ball Joints