Noisy Power Steering and Hydratech System

[Mkelcy]

Try: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-63788 I plumbed a separate return for the Hydroboost unit into the tank and solved all of my issues with the steering/braking hydraulics.

[cpd004]

I already did this and it didn't work for me.

[Hydratech®]

I had written a very long dissertation on the subject of PS noise to suffer the exceptional anguish of having it all disappear when I went to submit the post !@#$%$^%&**( Some sort of server time out or whatever, and it is ALL GONE. I have read up on this, and will save all extended forum posts to "Word" before suffering this again - oh, the humanity...

At ANY RATE, the Cliff's Notes was that we have come up with a cool new end user serviceable high pressure hydraulic filter that installs in the high pressure line (between the PS pump and the hydroboost unit) that also provides high frequency hydraulic noise suppression characteristics to help quell hydraulic system noise. Stay tuned. It is available right now by calling (beta testing stages, but available), though we are still looking at a variety of different methods of clamping this (inline unit) down appropriately (like a cool rubber insulated frame mounted fuel pump clamp / bracket).

[ModernMuseum]

After quite a bit of work I got my 69 Firebird (LS3) back on the road. One of the modifications I did while she was down was to try and fix this RIDICULOUSLY ANNOYING power steering whine cause by the hydraboost / pump setup. Using a factory LS3 reservoir, I did away with the T-fitting and plumbed a separate return back to the reservoir and installed a new vented cap just in case (after a few hours of running, it hasn't leaked yet). Unfortunately after spending over $100+ on basic hose (thanks Biden & Co.), $20 in fittings and $20 on a new cap, this had absolutely no effect. Since this thread appears to be one of the more comprehensive ones on the topic, I'm just posting this update here in hopes this will help someone. I also had a conversation with the Hydraboost guys a few months back, and am posting my notes below, as I don't really see them posting here anymore. At this point in time, I am still without a fix, but need to resolve this one as the whine is ATROCIOUS.

Notes from convo with Hydraboost - things to check if you have this issue. Note that these are just notes of my conversation - not necessarily solutions:
--If you have a remove reservoir, make sure your cap is vented. I believe most factory ones are. My old one appeared to not be, so I replaced it just in case.
--Some aftermarket pumps flow at 3 GPM, which churn/aerate the fluid and create pump noise.
----As mentioned herein, unscrew the pump outlet fitting on your pump and you'll see a hole in the venturi at the discharge of the pump, which regulates the outlet flow. Ideally the size of this hole should be between 1/8" and 9/64" OD (you can use a drill bit to check the size). If the reservoir is a 1/2 quart, the hole can be 1/8"; if it's a 3/4 quart, the hole can be as large as 9/64".
----You can procure a different fitting (I don't recall from where) if you feel you need to change the size.
--They recommend a synthetic fluid (red line, royal purple, valvoline).
--Temperatures - you can check the temp if you're inclined. The temp should roughly match the water temp.


FYI, after this convo, I measured the size of the hole in my fitting and it was 1/8".

I guess my next steps in order of cost are:
--Change to a synthetic fluid (as of right now I just have a hodge podge of Oreily's stuff in there from over the years). What's the easiest method to drain the fluid? Is there a drain on the gear box?
--Send the pump off to be modded with a different (smaller?) pulley. To me, this seems counter-intuitive relative to HydraBoost's comments, as a smaller pulley will result in a higher RPM = more flow. I have a lathe, so I might consider whipping up a new fitting if I think this would help. Larger hole would yield less flow (at higher pressure?).
--Install a larger reservoir.

Pic of modified reservoir for reference (apologies for size):

[ModernMuseum]

I spent the better part of an hour or so following methods on YT to try and get the air out of the system. I think it actually ended up being LOUDER after doing that.

Anyway, I attempted to get the car aligned last weekend and they couldn't get it completed because they need to move the driver's side upper A-arm in a little which will impact the power steering pulley (it's about 1/4" or less away if i recall correctly). Looks like several problems are now converging.

Should I attempt to change/reduce the diameter of the pulley and keep trying the methods to get the air out of the system or just go ahead and engage the experts and try to put in a new pump altogether?

[ModernMuseum]

Hard to believe that this problem has been the bane of my existence for almost a year now. I've since started trying to pull a vacuum on it (running and non-running) to try and get their air out. This also has given me a good indication that I don't have any leaks. Has anyone ever tried this? I'm at my wit's end with the whining. I've already done the turn left and right process from the internet a number of times and it doesn't seem to help, so now trying the vacuum method.

[dhutton]

I have had good luck with AC Delco power steering fluid FWIW. Started using it on Carls recommendation.

Don

[dhutton]

With both of those return lines beside each other I’m not sure you will get the desired result. CVF Racing has a remote reservoir with separated returns.
https://www.c1pulleys.com/products/h...eturn-fittings

[dontlifttoshift]

Just to clarify Dons post. The CVF Racing reservoir is a steaming pile of garbage. https://support.cvfracing.com/hc/en-...kaAu0ZEALw_wcB

The Concept 1 reservoir Don linked is a much better design, just be sure to use the lower return for the steering and the upper for the Hydroboost.

I have had good results with the Holley Reservoir and it is far better engineered than both but not as pretty as the concept 1.

I vacuum bleed every power steering system, hydroboost or not.

[dhutton]

Just to clarify Dons post. The CVF Racing reservoir is a steaming pile of garbage. https://support.cvfracing.com/hc/en-...kaAu0ZEALw_wcB

The Concept 1 reservoir Don linked is a much better design, just be sure to use the lower return for the steering and the upper for the Hydroboost.

I have had good results with the Holley Reservoir and it is far better engineered than both but not as pretty as the concept 1.

I vacuum bleed every power steering system, hydroboost or not.

Thanks for correcting my senior moment Donny. :D I have used the Concept 1 reservoir not the CVF Racing.

Don

[dontlifttoshift]

I really didn't CVF getting credit for anything remotely good.

[dhutton]

I really didn't CVF getting credit for anything remotely good.

Agreed. Not a fan!

[ModernMuseum]

With both of those return lines beside each other I’m not sure you will get the desired result. CVF Racing has a remote reservoir with separated returns.
https://www.c1pulleys.com/products/h...eturn-fittings

I have had good luck with AC Delco power steering fluid FWIW. Started using it on Carls recommendation.

Thanks. I think I am using this but I'll have to check. I did a bunch of research when I did the flush.

Don

Just to clarify Dons post. The CVF Racing reservoir is a steaming pile of garbage. https://support.cvfracing.com/hc/en-...kaAu0ZEALw_wcB

The Concept 1 reservoir Don linked is a much better design, just be sure to use the lower return for the steering and the upper for the Hydroboost.

I have had good results with the Holley Reservoir and it is far better engineered than both but not as pretty as the concept 1.

I vacuum bleed every power steering system, hydroboost or not.

What is your process for vacuum bleeding? Does it usually take a few tries?
Could there be some sort of issue with coupling the Turn One pump with my factory steering box?

I may have to try and Concept 1 reservoir. What issues could there be with my current reservoir? The Concept 1 just looks like it has both returns in the same proximity with no baffling in between.

[dontlifttoshift]

Jack up front end and properly support so that tires are off the ground. Apply vacuum to reservoir, turn wheels back and forth, at the tire not the steering wheel.

[dhutton]

Jack up front end and properly support so that tires are off the ground. Apply vacuum to reservoir, turn wheels back and forth, at the tire not the steering wheel.

Another great tip! Thanks Donny.

Don

[ModernMuseum]

Jack up front end and properly support so that tires are off the ground. Apply vacuum to reservoir, turn wheels back and forth, at the tire not the steering wheel.

So you just turn the tire at the wheel instead of the steering wheel? What's the difference?

Is jacking up the front to help get the air to the highest point?

[dontlifttoshift]

Jacking it up is to make it easier to turn the wheels.

Doing it at the tire? I really can't explain it, old timer told to me do it that way and even gave an explanation that made zero sense. Tried it, it worked quite well, now I do them all that way. For me, I can feel the air in a system when I am doing it that way. Also, bonus points because the car doesn't have to run as running the pump just spreads the air all over the system.

[ModernMuseum]

Jacking it up is to make it easier to turn the wheels.

Doing it at the tire? I really can't explain it, old timer told to me do it that way and even gave an explanation that made zero sense. Tried it, it worked quite well, now I do them all that way. For me, I can feel the air in a system when I am doing it that way. Also, bonus points because the car doesn't have to run as running the pump just spreads the air all over the system.

Gotcha, I've done a million turns left-right with the car off and on, but may have to try turning it at the wheel. I assume you go L-R-L-R and then push the brakes 3 times?

[ProTouring442]

First things first: is it noisy when standing next to the car?

My dad swore his was noisy. Turns out, it's only noisy inside the car. The braided lines are stiff enough they carry the noise.

[ModernMuseum]

First things first: is it noisy when standing next to the car?

My dad swore his was noisy. Turns out, it's only noisy inside the car. The braided lines are stiff enough they carry the noise.

I can't comment on how noisy it is outside the car, but from the inside the car, let's just say it sounds like a 1990 Ford Tempo that's been run dry for the last 500 miles and is crying out to the heavens for a drop of oil.