Speedtech New First / second Gen Subframe

[killer69]

SPEEDTECH PERFORMANCE
Monday, March 15, 2015

You may already know Speedtech Performance has acquired the rights and production of the Ironworks CAD designed full chassis for 67-72 C10 Trucks, 55-57 Chevys & 68-72 Chevelles/GM A-Bodies. What you may not know is we also currently have NEW Front Subframe & Suspension packages in the works for 67-69 F-Bodies, 68-74 X-Bodies & 70-81 F-Bodies.

Here is the juicy part. Speedtech Performance contracted Ron Sutton to optimize the front suspension & steering geometry, the way only he can, on all the new Speedtech Performance chassis and front subframes. For the first time, you can bolt in a chassis or front subframe with Ron Sutton Race Technology optimized geometry.

Ron said, “This was a tough project, because we needed to achieve the optimum front dynamic roll center for any suspension strategy the customer wants to run ... and we did it ... it turned out perfect.This combined with the best Ackerman of any available front end, optimum camber gain and minimal jacking effect ... makes these the best handling, steering & driving chassis and subframes available. They are an upgrade from Speedtech’s current product offerings and frankly any full chassis or front subframe in the Pro Touring market today.”

The front suspension is based around the NEXT Generation of the ATS Forged 7075 Aluminum Spindle design that now makes it possible to have what Ron calls, “The best possible multi use suspension package available.” Ron stated the Next-Gen ATS spindle in its new configuration offers “Better geometry than any Corvette or Corvette copy spindle.”

Some of the many technical advantages of the new ATS Spindle & Speedtech Chassis/Subframe Geometry:

·Reduced KPI/SAI angle
·Requires less caster to achieve optimum full tire contact patch
·Significantly less scrub radius for improved grip in tight turns
·HD C7 hubs & bearings standard
·Improved design steering arm with max Ackerman
·Optimum rack & pinion location
·Amazing 95% Ackerman achieves optimum tire slip angle, significantly increasing front tire grip
·Virtually Zero Bump Steer (.005”)
·Up to 30 degree turn angle (tire size dependant)
·Roll center achieves optimum dynamic location for low, mid & high travel suspension strategies
·Increased shock length allowing higher suspension travel
·Excellent .76 motion ratio for improved shock response & control
·3-Piece splined Speedway Engineering sway bar standard – Wide range of rates available
·Excellent for Autocross, Road Course and Street Driving

The other exciting part is that we have arranged for Ron Sutton to provide our competitive clients custom Autocross/Track Day suspension combinations & tuning support on an individualized basis (for a small flat fee) for the full line of full chassis & front subframes.Ron Sutton Race Technology is an authorized dealer for the entire Speedtech product line.

We are REALLY excited about this game changing chassis and front subframe/suspension line and although it is a couple months from being ready to ship we just felt we should let you know.We are taking pre-orders through Speedtech Performance and Ron Sutton Race Technology starting March 15^th. Once the chassis & subframes are in production, they will be available through all Speedtech dealers. Stay tuned for pricing and other options.



Contact Speedtech Performance at:
Phone:(435) 628-4300
Shop: 3884 S. River Road, Bldg. A, St. George, Utah 84790
Email:[email protected]
Website: SpeedtechPerformance.com

Contact Ron Sutton Race Technology at:
Phone: (916) 834-8051
Email: [email protected]
Website: RonSuttonRaceTechnology.com

[k7king]

Can't wait to see pics.

[rchaskin]

.....WOW. Getting serious now!!

[David Pozzi]

Blake, this is exciting news, - congratulations!

[cornfedbill]

This is great news! The bar has been raised.

I am eager to see the photos.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

I'll definitely be following this. I'll be building 2 71's, and a 77 F-body in the near future.

[killer69]

I'll definitely be following this. I'll be building 2 71's, and a 77 F-body in the near future.

AND SO CLOSE TOO , Easy drive to pick them up or drop off for install!!

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

AND SO CLOSE TOO , Easy drive to pick them up or drop off for install!!

Lol, no, not far at all, easy 7 hour drive it looks like. Can't afford the package plus install, but would consider picking one up. I've been wanting to come up and check out Kindig-It design sometime. I'm several months out from "needing" to buy one, but if you need a 71 Camaro or Firebird, or 77 Trans Am to verify fitment, I can be there in a days notice. Already got your control arms on my 67 Camaro.

[130fe]

Always great to see newer technology put into our older cars. More options is great for the consumer. Great news!

[Ron Sutton]

Hey Guys! Thanks for the kind words.

This was a fun project for me & the results turned out excellent. The first goal was make it perform mean on the track with no side effects on the street. This was one of the easier goals. In addition to the new geometry providing full tire contact patch for performance handling when autocrossing or tracking the vehicle, the higher 7.0° caster & low static camber actually makes the street manners tamer & the tire wear less. Frankly, this new package is safer on the street if you need to make evasive maneuvers.

The upper control arms are slugged with precision, laser etched slugs marked 7°, 8° & 9° ... allowing you to make easy, simple & confident caster changes if desired.

The tough goal ... which no other factory or aftermarket front subframe or full chassis I have measurements on achieves ... is putting the dynamic roll center in the optimum spot for all of the common suspension strategies. The new Speedtech chassis & front subframes have an excellent 3" static roll center at ride height & achieves the optimum roll center with any of the three common suspension strategies.
#1 For conventional suspension set-ups with low front end travel during dive (1" ±) & higher roll angle during cornering (3° ±) ... the dynamic roll center is an optimum 2".

#2 For modern suspension set-ups with high front end travel during dive (3" ±) & lower roll angle during cornering (1° ±) ... the dynamic roll center is an optimum 0".

#3 For suspension set-ups with moderate front end travel during dive (2" ±) & moderate roll angle (2° ±) ... the dynamic roll center is an optimum 1".

This required a change to the ATS spindle & Speedtech stepped up and got'er done. This "Next Gen ATS" spindle & new framework allowed me to achieve the optimum roll centers, camber gain, caster gain ... with low angle upper control arms for reduced "jacking effect". That means the car runs flatter than other set-ups with the same spring & sway bar rates.

The bump steer for typical travel ranges is practically zero (.005"). For serious competitors, Speedtech performance is offering a bump steer kit, making it easy to add some "bump out" to fine tune the slip angle of the inside tire ... to the optimum degree for the tires you choose to run. All the serious competitors know the BFG Rival & Falken RT615 have different sidewall construction, and therefore different slip angles provide maximum grip. In years to come, other tires will be introduced that vary from these. All these new Speedtech chassis & front subframes will need for maximum grip is a little bump steer fine tuning.

I use the term "fine tuning" for a very key reason. We worked at this & worked at this. And by we, I mean Speedtech & I both worked to make this happen. We achieved 100% Ackerman ... with a rack & pinion. At this point all the other chassis designers jaws just dropped, because that is challenging to achieve with any steering system & extremely challenging with a R&P.

What that means to the car owner is:
* Absolute better grip from the inside front tire
* Increased total front grip
* Higher corner speed capability for autocross & track days
* Closer side to side tire temps
* Improved tire wear
* Better street manners
* No squealing from inside tire on tight parking lot turns

I know Speedtech said 95% Ackerman in their original posting. They are being conservative & legally correct. If a person runs no toe-out, it has 95% Ackerman. But the suggested set-up (by me) is 1/16" toe out on each side (1/8" total toe out) ... which makes the Ackerman 100% when turned. The 100% Ackerman & zero bump steer required a new design steering arm. Again, Speedtech showed their commitment to making this the best package & created new steering arms to go with their new ATS spindles. The standard package runs a traditional tapered tie rod end. The optional "bump steer kit" allows owners to fine tune their bump steer for optimum front tire grip & turn in responsiveness.

Other key features are:
* The lower 7.45° KPI
* Low scrub radius (exact amount depends on wheels)
* Longer front shock mounting for higher travel capacity
* Higher .76 motion ratio
* 3-Piece splined Speedway Engineering sway bar standard

The higher motion ratio doesn't provide a performance gain as far as springs are concerned. You end up ordering softer spring rates to get to the same target wheel rate, so there is no performance gain there. The grip gain is because the shocks respond quicker with a higher motion ratio. This provides more control of the tire & wheel ... keeping it in contact with the road/track surface better ... providing more grip. This is not a "theory." This provides a measurable increase in grip. A .76 motion ratio provides over 50% better response time than the typical .50 motion ratio in most production cars. How much more grip this provides is track surface dependent. If the track surface is glass smooth, there could be zero gain in grip. If the track is typical with small rolling undulations, the grip increase can be in the 10-30% range. If the track is rough ... or portions of the track are rough ... in those areas the grip difference is huge because the shock & suspension are responding quicker ... keeping the tire contact patch on the track more.

Love the 3-piece splined bar. Kudos for Speedtech using the top supplier in the industry, Speedway Engineering ... and it's standard. Now you can choose whatever size bar & rates you desire ... and change it quickly (and inexpensively) if you want a different rate.

In my experience, this is the best suspension & steering geometry available today in full chassis and front subframes.

[rickpaw]

Speedtech & RSRT=winning combo.

Would love to see the pictures of the new frame. Of course with my luck, 3 months after I bought AFX spindles from Ron, Speedtech comes out with a brand new spindle design.

[killer69]

Speedtech & RSRT=winning combo.

Would love to see the pictures of the new frame. Of course with my luck, 3 months after I bought AFX spindles from Ron, Speedtech comes out with a brand new spindle design.

Not to worry Rick as the new spindle ONLY WORKS ON THE NEW chassis and Subframes. so you are still good

[ace_xp2]

[B]
I know Speedtech said 95% Ackerman in their original posting. They are being conservative & legally correct. If a person runs no toe-out, it has 95% Ackerman. But the suggested set-up (by me) is 1/16" toe out on each side (1/8" total toe out) ... which makes the Ackerman 100% when turned. The 100% Ackerman & zero bump steer required a new design steering arm. Again, Speedtech showed their commitment to making this the best package & created new steering arms to go with their new ATS spindles. The standard package runs a traditional tapered tie rod end. The optional "bump steer kit" allows owners to fine tune their bump steer for optimum front tire grip & turn in responsiveness.

100% at a particular angle though right? You'll get more and less depending on how much steering you're winding since part of you ackerman is being derived from toe. Unless you've got an interesting steering geometry and only talking about 95% ackerman as derived from steering arm angles and not rack or center link positions.

[Ron Sutton]

100% at a particular angle though right? You'll get more and less depending on how much steering you're winding since part of you ackerman is being derived from toe. Unless you've got an interesting steering geometry and only talking about 95% ackerman as derived from steering arm angles and not rack or center link positions.

Hey Ace!

Yup 100% at a specific point. In this case when the outside front tire is at 25°.

Ace, you know this, but most guys may not ... Ackerman is never linear, nor constant. Ideally we want more than 100% Ackerman at initial corner turn in. This increases the initial front tire grip & steering responsiveness. Then we want to continue having Ackerman keep the inside tire slip angle optimum for maximum grip. Ideally we want to go from somewhere above 100% to somewhere around 100%. I say "around" and "somewhere" because the actual optimum Ackerman varies with the tires we're running & how well we're loading the inside front tire.

I attached a couple slip angle illustrations for anyone reading along that wants to understand this better. The first illustration just shows what slip angle is. Too many folks read the word "slip" and think the tire is slipping. Slip angle is simply the angle difference between the wheel & tire contact patch.





Slip angle is absolutely key to tire grip. The red line in the graph above shows a bias ply racing slick. The Coefficient of Friction numbers on the side of the graph translate to grip/traction. The slip angle degrees along the bottom of the graph are referring to the wheel angle difference compared to the tire's contact patch. The graph shows us the tire gains grip (Coefficient of Friction) as the slip angle increases ... reaches a plateau in a range of slip angle ... and then falls off if we exceed the optimum slip angle. Our 200 tread wear street tires have a similar shaped graph & characteristics to the red line ... but at a lower peak number than the bias ply slick, probably peaking in the 1.0-1.2 CoF range depending on brand, model & temps.

There are several things that affect what the optimum slip angle is for a tire.
* The carcass design (stiffer vs more pliable)
* The sidewall design (stiffer vs more pliable)
* Sidewall height (affects sidewall stiffness)
* Tire pressure (affects sidewall stiffness as well as the tires spring rate)
* Tire design (radial vs bias ply)
* Rim width to tire width ratio (narrower rims increase the slip angle needed for optimum grip/wider rims decrease the needed angle for optimum grip)

When a well handling (neutral/balanced) car is driven to its limits ... the outside front tire is automatically at its optimum slip angle. It is providing the maximum grip it can. It doesn't have any more grip to offer. If you try to go faster, the outside front tire simply breaks traction & the car pushes. Since we can't go through the corner any faster than the front end has grip ... if we're going to make the car corner any faster ... we need more front end grip. We can't get any more out of the outside front tire. It is maxed.

So we look to the inside front tire to add some front end grip to the equation.

Just for conversation sake ... and to use the graph above ... let's say the optimum slip angle is in the 9°-10° range ... like the red line above. If we're driving a car to its limits, that outside front tire is at a 10° slip angle & providing the max grip it can. Just for giggles, so guys can embrace the concept, I'll lay out some Ackerman/Slip Angles samples. These numbers are not accurate, nor am I going to map out all the steering angle possibilities. This example is simply indicative of the concept. Speed & load is what gets the outside front tire to its max slip angle (10° in this example). If we have zero Ackerman ... meaning the inside front wheel is at the same angle as the outside wheel ... the inside front tire would have very low slip angle ... because it is loaded significantly less than the outside tire.

For conversation sake, let's say:
A. Zero Ackerman puts the inside front tire at 2° slip angle. (Look at the graph and see the CoF/Grip number for 2° slip angle)
B. 25% Ackerman puts the inside front tire at 4° slip angle.
C. 50% Ackerman puts the inside front tire at 6° slip angle.
D. 75% Ackerman puts the inside front tire at 8° slip angle.
E. 100% Ackerman puts the inside front tire at 10° slip angle. (Look at the CoF/Grip now.)
F. 125% Ackerman puts the inside front tire at 12° slip angle. (Too much/less grip & more heat)

Does that help to understand what we're doing with Ackerman? I had a racing friend say ... after he understood it ... that Ackerman was an mechanical way to increase the slip angle of the inside front tire & increase its grip. I agree with that 100%. Just so we're clear ... the load is still less on the inside front tire ... just the CoF goes up. Think of it as xxx pounds of corner load x .50 Cof at a low slip angle ... or xxx pounds of corner load x 1.xx at the optimum slip angle. Which do we want? Its a no brainer.

Depending on how far the Ackerman was off, we can double & triple the grip provided by the inside front tire. But don't think this inside tire can provide as much grip as the outside tire. It simply can not due to the major load differential. I've seen the corner speeds increase 5%-12% when guys "get this" & rework their Ackerman.

Anyway ... thanks for the question Ace. Hope everyone understood that.

[rchaskin]

I have a couple of Questions....Nova biased of course.

Will the track width be changed?
How much extra room for tires / how much narrower than stock is the frame?
What wheel size / tire size was this developed around?
Are you planning on pairing this the with the ST Torque arm, or is a 3-link coming?

Thanks!!!

[Rag Top Rob]

I have a couple of Questions....Nova biased of course.

Will the track width be changed?
How much extra room for tires / how much narrower than stock is the frame?
What wheel size / tire size was this developed around?
Are you planning on pairing this the with the ST Torque arm, or is a 3-link coming?

Thanks!!!

What he say????

[Nicks67GTO]

Will the updated AFX spindles do anything cool for the A-body crowd?

[Buryingthesun]

Does this mean the standard Speedtech front subframe will drop in price ;)

[killer69]

I have a couple of Questions....Nova biased of course.

Will the track width be changed?
How much extra room for tires / how much narrower than stock is the frame?
What wheel size / tire size was this developed around?
Are you planning on pairing this the with the ST Torque arm, or is a 3-link coming?


Thanks!!!

The frame is 34" outside width the first gen Camaro/nova is 37" wide.
On the first gen we are expecting to fit a 315 x 18 and will also shoot for a 325 but that is really more dependant on control arm and sway bar shape and location, The nova is about 1.5" narrower (at the outer fender lip) than a first gen. so that becomes a problem, I managed to fit 275 35 18 on my nova but it needed major work to the inside and outside of the inner wheel well and fender lip. but I would expect you could squeeze a 295?? on a Nova with the required work.
Yes the torque arm will be the suspension of choice.
Track width will remain at 60" (not exactly true) HUB FACE to HUB FACE will be 60" but that will be the width INCLUDING brake hats. As you know the track width changes based on wheel/tire combo

[killer69]

Does this mean the standard Speedtech front subframe will drop in price ;)

No decision on that, yet