PT Race Car Builds On The Way Out???

[72BBSwinger]

I've said it before and ill say it again, put everyone on the SAME tire. They do in every other form of racing. If everybody was on a 275 Rival,zII,rs-3 whatever, the winner would be the guy with the best driving and setup. Not the guy with $5k in wheels and $2k in 315's or 335's at all 4 comers because he CAN. My car looks badass with 335's on the back but I could swap them easy for as set 275's all the way around in a heartbeat if everybody was on them at an event.

[72BBSwinger]

Call it the 275 class and awd rwd and the weight classes just like now. Then have unlimited class also. Everyone still buying 200tw tires just with a 275/35/18,275/40/17 etc in a class by themselves. Then have a shootout with all class winners.

[mikes2nd]

Not possible actually, our setups are so diverse and weird you may not be able to fit 275's on my rims. Then what?

That's too narrow for a rule(no pun intended) but its a start.

But I mean most people want to be competitive, and we all have what resources we have. Some people are running business and want to win one to make a name or its a sponsor car, some people just want to see their hard work win. I think that side is great don't get me wrong.

Any sports that start out fun and turn commercial have this issue. Heck even the Lemons racing series faced it.

[72BBSwinger]

So your saying its not possible because your current rims are to wide so that makes it a bad idea? 275's can fit on probably the widest selection of makes and body styles there is, THAT is the point. I would get a second set of wheels and tires to run in a 275 class if it existed.

[SSLance]

I tried real hard to get the SCCA to go with a tire width rule for the CAM classes... No dice there either.

[mikes70]

I love this genre. I am a car-guy. I go to car shows from time to time, but would much rather be driving (read "touring") them. I'm kinda in the midst of going ape-sh$t crazy on my 2nd gen. Recaros, LS, DSE, Forgelines, you get the pic. But the bottom line is i'm building it my way. I love the car, love driving the car, autocrossing the car and tracking it too (hence the roll bar and 4pts). I still see these fetching more coin than some of the stock builds, part of something inside of us just screams performance...dunno.

Me and "Mayhem" and the GG Texas Road Trip in '14, drove it 4200 miles round trip....

[TheJDMan]

Are we talking about racecars or Pro-Touring cars? Or are we talking about a convergence of the two? It seems to me that the PT parts manufacturers have gotten so good with their product development that it is blurring the lines between the two. The fact that many PT cars are being driven in competition events is merely a testament to how good Pro-Touring mods have become. The increasing popularity of Pro-Touring is reflected in the growing number if venues designed to encourage the PT style. I see all of this as a maturing process. But at the same time, it is a mistake to assume that every PT build has to be a racecar. I am growing weary of these comments about the "Touring in Pro-Touring" or somehow a car is less PT if it is not autocrossed or taken to a track day. No one (except maybe my wife) has any right to tell me how I drive my car! If I choose to enter competitive events or not it is my decision. On the street or on a track my car handles and brakes orders of magnitude better today than it ever did with the stock suspension. That, to me, is what Pro-Touring is really all about. Regardless of how I use my car, it is safer to drive today than it was 40+ years ago. I cannot control how much money someone else spends on their build or what plans they ultimately have for their car, nor would I want to. Everyone here is free to build what they want and spend any sort of budget that works for them. I see the PT Racecar builds as more of the extreme expression of the style but that does not mean every PT build is a racecar. The bottom line is, build what YOU want, drive it as YOU see fit and have fun.

[72BBSwinger]

OK, if it has a backseat, its Pro-Touring, if it doesn't, its a racecar lol!

[hotrodalex]

OK, if it has a backseat, its Pro-Touring, if it doesn't, its a racecar lol!

I have the slowest racecar on the forum then. LOL

[tazzz25906112]

The term and events called pro-touring has morphed over the last few years to say the least.... I remember actively being involved the run to SEMA and founding the RatPack,, and also the years with the American Street car series running and morphing... Then came the Ultimate Street car series, Orange cone, and now SCCA with a series...

Bottom line, the only constant is change... I take my hat off to all that built it, I have heavily supported this corner of the hobby we call Pro-touring both financially and physically doing my best to bring friends with common car interests together. The umbrella "pro-touring" is alive well and constantly changing.. This is an excellent sign that it will survive as change brings creativity & development that we all benefit from.. So take your car, improve it, enjoy it, enjoy and support the people that bring these events to us....

If I could be critical of any one area of the the term "Pro-touring" it would be this point.... Everyone has a opinion about what the term means and yet I rarely see the term "Friends, fraternity, social mindset " used in describing Pro-touring as a term... It's generally reference to defining as a mechanical object which is sad... I'd cast aside all my cars for the friends and extended family I call ""Pro-touring"",,, and I'm twice as happy I don't have to do that all things said LOL.. Seriously though gang,, lets worry less about defining it and more about getting together with the common interests we share..

My good friends there are so many of you I miss seeing... I have had some health issues and some setbacks,, but I'm still here and look forward to see you all,,, so lets worry about making memories together,, not making definitions... Lets build """More""",,, more friends,, more cars,, more lasting memories and spend less time playing keyboard warriors debating definitions that don't bring anything good to the community.... So lets drink, lets eat , lets make enjoyable memories because in the end that's investing in ""Pro-touring"" at it's best....

[vintageracer]

Hey Albert!

Let's EAT!!!!!

[DesertFox]

Seriously though gang,, lets worry less about defining it and more about getting together with the common interests we share..

My good friends there are so many of you I miss seeing... I have had some health issues and some setbacks,, but I'm still here and look forward to see you all,,, so lets worry about making memories together,, not making definitions... Lets build """More""",,, more friends,, more cars,, more lasting memories and spend less time playing keyboard warriors debating definitions that don't bring anything good to the community.... So lets drink, lets eat , lets make enjoyable memories because in the end that's investing in ""Pro-touring"" at it's best....

Preach on northern brother ;)
Hope to see you this spring..

[James OLC]

Who really wants to push their pride and joy and years of blood sweat and tears to the limits with concrete barriers inches from your mirrors?

Maybe

[79-TA]

This thread started out talking about the monetary value of "PT race" cars at auctions etc. The basic problem of a PT car is that it is a modified car. Cars are rarely worth the sum of their parts, especially aftermarket or replacement parts. Modification, unfortunately, creates uncertainty about the quality of the parts installed, the compatibility of parts installed, the quality of the installation, and the treatment of the car that necessitated the replacement in the first place all while making the car less original and authentic for collectors and preservationists.

The base platform of a PT car has value that will suffer less depreciation (or enjoy more appreciation) than a typical modern car, but I generally view PT cars as a fun way to spend money, not invest it.



As for the "what is pro-touring vs racing vs not racing" conversations, just build cool cars that you can drive, enjoy, and compete a bit with. The pro-touring segment aspires for cars to excel at all aspects, despite conflicting demands of speed, comfort, and reliability . . . while being built on tired old outdated platforms. When someone succeeds, they're blamed for spending too much money. When someone has success, but doesn't spend all the money, they're criticized for compromising some aspect of the car or not having a support convoy to allow them to drive cross-country or whatever. No one has the exact same circumstances, vision, or level of commitment, so don't worry when someone leaves off one of the items on your checklist, especially if they're not claiming a particular label. (I myself struggle with this when I get frustrated with people who build performance cars and never enter them in even the safest of autocrosses.)

I'd love to see the CAM class continue to be an antithesis to the pedantic rule-writing tendencies of the SCCA. The USCA has a pretty good structure for servicing the OUSCI.

[vintageracer]

This thread started out talking about the monetary value of "PT race" cars at auctions etc.

No it didn't.

It started with ME talking about the discussion I had with other PT enthusiasts while at the BJ Auction and asking everyone about trend of building "Dedicated PT Race Car Build's" and is that trend already on the way out.

Several other's have also posted about the value of PT cars at auction however that was not the original intent of my original post. It just so happened that all of us were at the BJ Auction when the subject of dedicated PT autocross/open track race cars came up.

[tazzz25906112]

Hey Albert!

Let's EAT!!!!!

Mike, may the BBQ be full and our stomachs as well,,, I'll look forward to it my friend....

[Poorhousenext]

OK, You guys have started sounding like the guys over on the Corvette Forums have been doing for years, "The Sky is Falling", show me the "Money", Where is the "Money".

Why in the "Hell" are you worried about prices/value/builds and what "Show cars with term PT attached to them, are if PT race car builds are on "The way out"?

Some of you must just sit at home, because for the last 3 years, I've seen more and more purpose built competion PT cars. These builds cover a wide spectrum from non Show to Show type builds with a lot of money spent on making car go fast and look Great too. I'm also seeing the Guys with their "TOURING" builds too.

Just enjoy, and be PROUD of what you have built to TOUR or Compete and TOUR. Quit worring about the state of the HOBBY, it's "FIND". Worry about the Worriers more. Maybe like old Drag Cars, you'll see intrest in collecting OLD PT builds some day.

I'm so confused about what to do, Hell, I'm trying to build a Street Legal Touring PT car that is NHRA legal 10's in 1/4 mile car with under 400 RWHP with 200 TW street tires, so it's a PT Competition Legal car, that has a flair for Show Look too...LOL. Any of those classes along is a MONEY losers, much less trying to build a car that want do any of them really well, but maybe one of them will still be "IN" next year or so.....

[High Plains Mopars]

This.

To me, the PT world is divided up into three categories, more or less, with no distinct delineation between them:

• Ring Brothers style - over the top, incredible fabrication, mega $$, impeccable craftsmanship, innovative fabrication, will hardly be driven or raced
• Weekend warrior types with a project or two. Probably won't race them, but build a slick PT car with new guts
• Racing crowd, which can be an all-out streetfighter style with no frills or some combo of the above

You forgot the most basic entry that is laying claiming to the title as well; any restored muscle car with lowering springs and 17"+ wheels. IMO, this is the most broadly seen interpretation of the genre among the masses, and also the segment most likely to allow profit in a build for resale scenario.

[andrewb70]

Hey Albert!

Let's EAT!!!!!

And enjoy a few adult beverages!

Andrew

[mikes2nd]

No one is worried he just asked the question. And yes we will build what we want to build and be proud of them.

The term PT now should be reserved for a 60-70's muscle car with full interior(custom or stock), a engine swap/custom engine and suspension/brake upgrades. Less and less of those are showing up to PT events and "PT" events are now turning into SCAA events.

But then again the rest of the world simply calls them "customs"...

So there you go, next time your at BJ, use the correct term when selling the car, your selling a "custom" car.

You'll probably get more for a custom than a PT car