Can we discuss clutches for a bit...

[SSLance]

I'm running a LT1 style (one piece rear main seal) T56 out of a 1997 camaro behind my GMPP HT383. The trans came with the factory clutch and pressure plate that supposedly had 59,000 miles on it which I installed with the trans and have put about 3,000 more very hard miles on.


So far it has worked flawlessly. I'm using a f-body style hydraulic clutch master\slave setup and love the pedal feel and effort it takes to disengage the clutch and the daily driveablility is pretty nice as well.


Last Sunday I noticed that I slipped the clutch a couple of times during my autocross runs. The slippage occurred after I had shifted to second on the starts but it didn't slip again the rest of the runs. On the ride home it behaved normally as well. I can only assume that as I continue to beat on the car, the clutch is going to be the next weak link that goes. So, this is my homework assignment...find the replacement before it's actually needed in a hurry.


What is the hot ticket these days for a replacement clutch that will hold 400 ft pounds of torque to the rear tires at 2,000 rpm well while still giving nice daily driving attributes?


I'm not looking to break the bank here either but I'd like to make the correct decision the first time and be happy with the choice. I've had friends buy the biggest baddest clutch disc they could get and be totally unhappy with the daily driving aspect and I do not want to make that mistake while at the same time I don't want to be replacing it again in 6 months to a year because it can't hold up to what I'm putting it through.

Open to suggestions, personal experience with a similar type setup worth even more.




You can hear the clutch slip after I make the first left turn and head towards the kink in the first straight on a couple of these runs.

[SSLance]

Does anyone have any experience with a Spec Clutch?

Maybe a stage 2 or stage 2+ for my application?

http://www.specclutch.com/products

[Bad94]

I have a big bore short stroke high revving small block and with a alum flywheel and spec 2 clutch, The clutch and flywheel shipping weight with the box was 26lbs. I run the LT1 hydraulics and i have a very smooth pedal.

When i go to replace this clutch i think im going to go with a quarter master set up.

[rchaskin]

I have an LT1 trans, and One piece seal motor (CT400 circle track).

I used all McLeod stuff. Blow proof Bellhousing, Steel Flywheel, and MCL-75216 Street Pro Clutch.

Needless to say, it has taken its fair share of abuse. Very satisfied. Not cheap.

[SSLance]

I have a big bore short stroke high revving small block and with a alum flywheel and spec 2 clutch, The clutch and flywheel shipping weight with the box was 26lbs. I run the LT1 hydraulics and i have a very smooth pedal.

When i go to replace this clutch i think im going to go with a quarter master set up.

Thanks,

By "spec 2" do you mean Spec's "stage 2" kit with the aluminum flywheel?

I like that you have a smooth pedal with this setup, what difference do you think going to a quarter master setup will make to your car? Does the stage 2 not hold under extreme load?

[SSLance]

I have an LT1 trans, and One piece seal motor (CT400 circle track).

I used all McLeod stuff. Blow proof Bellhousing, Steel Flywheel, and MCL-75216 Street Pro Clutch.

Needless to say, it has taken its fair share of abuse. Very satisfied. Not cheap.

Thanks, how is the MCL-75216 Street Pro Clutch for just regular driving? Does it chatter much or is engagement pretty smooth at lower RPMs? Could my 110 pound wife drive the car with a clutch like this in it?

[rchaskin]

Thanks, how is the MCL-75216 Street Pro Clutch for just regular driving? Does it chatter much or is engagement pretty smooth at lower RPMs? Could my 110 pound wife drive the car with a clutch like this in it?

Drives easy and smooth, no chatter. Pedal is a little stiffer than a late model car.
I drive it all the time, and it does not wear you out to drive it or anything like that.

I would think your wife could handle it.

[SSLance]

Thanks... I'll go check it out.

[SSLance]

With a 3 week break between events I figured it was the best time to get after this, so last night I pulled the trans to inspect the clutch. When I pulled the slave cylinder out, these pieces of wire were laying in the bell housing there.



When I pulled the Pressure plate and disc out the throw out bearing just fell out. I'm pretty certain that wire used to hold the bearing onto the Pressure plate. This was a stock style LT1 clutch setup from a 1997 Camaro.



It has been noisey for a while now when you let the clutch out with the trans in neutral, almost like a rod knocking noise...I'm assuming this was the bearing flopping around against the PP fingers.

Good news is the flywheel looks like it can be cleaned up pretty easily.





I'll pull it this morning and get it to a machine shop for grinding.

Here are my top choices for a replacement clutch.

http://www.mcleodracing.com/index.ph...pro-15647.html

SUPER STREET PRO Part Number: 75216

SUPER STREET PRO KIT, CAMARO LT1 '93-'97 11" 1 1/8 x 26 Excellent street/strip clutch capable of handling up to 550HP. Kit includes pressure plate, dual faced disc, alignment tool and throwout bearing.


http://www.ramclutches.com/Products/street%20strip.htm

Powergrip Performance Clutch sets
MUSCLE CAR PERFORMANCE TO 550 HORSEPOWER
As power levels move up to and beyond 500 horsepower. RAM POWERGRIP meets the challenge with a combination of organic and metallic disc friction surfaces that effectively increase the clutch capacity to the 550 horsepower level. The 8-spring hub is equipped with RAM POLYCOIL damper springs encapsulated in polyurethane. This spring can handle three times the shock load of just the coil spring, and is standard in all RAM competition discs. The RAM Competition pressure plate in this kit provides 30% more clamp pressure than stock, and meets SFI specifications. At this high level of performance RAM POWERGRIP provides surprisingly good driving characteristics with smooth, comfortable driver control. Sets include pressure plate, disc, release bearing, and alignment tool unless otherwise noted.


The car puts 400 lb ft to the rear tires at 2,000 rpm, weighs 3511 pounds and is heavily autocrossed and still driven on the street quite a bit. I want a clutch that will hold the power when put down on real sticky tires but not chatter when daily driven or be super stiff to disengage.

I've also looked at Modern Drivelines clutch which is a 2000 pound spring, 100% kevlar\organic disc that comes recommended from a friend. Superior clutch makes theirs out of San Jose, CA

http://www.moderndriveline.com/catalog/clutches.htm

Kevlar®/Organic Clutch
This clutch is a multi-friction type with Kevlar®, and Organic surfaces designed for extra grab and high heat tolerance from high performance applications. Available in 10" or 10.5". Great solution for a track/street car.

Curious if anyone has any experience with them? the price is pretty good, $395 for a complete kit vs over $600 for the other choices. But I'd like some first hand experience with them before going that direction.

[SSLance]

10 thousands cleaned the flywheel right up. I ordered the Ram Powergrip clutch kit, should be here on Friday.


Powergrip Performance Clutch sets
MUSCLE CAR PERFORMANCE TO 550 HORSEPOWER
As power levels move up to and beyond 500 horsepower. RAM POWERGRIP meets the challenge with a combination of organic and metallic disc friction surfaces that effectively increase the clutch capacity to the 550 horsepower level. The 8-spring hub is equipped with RAM POLYCOIL damper springs encapsulated in polyurethane. This spring can handle three times the shock load of just the coil spring, and is standard in all RAM competition discs. The RAM Competition pressure plate in this kit provides 30% more clamp pressure than stock, and meets SFI specifications. At this high level of performance RAM POWERGRIP provides surprisingly good driving characteristics with smooth, comfortable driver control. Sets include pressure plate, disc, release bearing, and alignment tool unless otherwise noted.

[Mizzouri]

Did you get the clutch in today?

[SSLance]

I got the clutch in and the trans reinstalled but the clutch fork didn't seem to want to engage the throwout bearing correctly and the pedal felt a little funny. I took the chance that it was going to be okay, buttoned everything else up and started the car...clutch won't release.

So here in a bit it's all coming back out to see what the deal with the clutch fork is.

Yea...

[vette427-sbc]

Just went through the whole Pull Style clutch search... All of the clutch mfgs use the stock replacement Valeo pressure plate. Centerforce adds weights to increase clamp load. Spec supposedly changes something on the PP to increase clamp force. Went with the Spec stage 2+ and a McLeod scattershield (FYI McLeod said we do not have to indicate it but we did anyway and it came out to be .015" out)

[SSLance]

I thought I read somewhere that Valeo wasn't making replacement pull type pressure plates anymore and that's why there is the issue with the clutch forks hitting the aftermarket pressure plates (they are a bit thicker in design).

See what I went through here...

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...-install-issue

Ram claims a 30% greater clamping force over stock with their PP. To me, the pedal feels almost identical to the Valeo but my pedal is designed to over leverage the clutch master.

I know this, the throw out bearing was quite a bit further out towards the trans with the new setup vs the old...and I don't think clutch disc thickness was all that was the difference.

[vette427-sbc]

I thought I read somewhere that Valeo wasn't making replacement pull type pressure plates anymore and that's why there is the issue with the clutch forks hitting the aftermarket pressure plates (they are a bit thicker in design).

See what I went through here...

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...-install-issue

Ram claims a 30% greater clamping force over stock with their PP. To me, the pedal feels almost identical to the Valeo but my pedal is designed to over leverage the clutch master.

I know this, the throw out bearing was quite a bit further out towards the trans with the new setup vs the old...and I don't think clutch disc thickness was all that was the difference.

I saw that and Im hoping I wont have the same issue!
I just bought the Spec clutch kit- Valeo PP. McLeod clutch kit bought last year- Valeo PP. McLeod clutch kit purchased last month- Valeo PP. Centerforce clutch kit purchased this month- Valeo PP. They all have the same part number stamped into them

[SSLance]

Now I wish I would have snapped a picture of the PP before I put mine in. And NO, I will not pull it apart again just to check it... :D

I'm not sure how one can check the fork clearance issue other than putting it together, pressing the clutch in and turning the engine over.

[SSLance]

So I drove the car around quite a bit yesterday, the weather was fantastic and I had a lot of errands to run. I really REALLY like the clutch upgrade. It is apparent to me now just how much my other clutch was slipping under a hard load. I'd compare it to a torque converter on an automatic trans.

Now with the new Ram clutch though, when the torque is applied, the tires spin first before the clutch slips. Big difference... It should make me quite a bit faster on the course too, as long as I can keep the rear end from stepping out coming off corners.

Driveability is fantastic, shifts smooth both up and down, pedal pressure is nearly identical to the stock clutch and the engage\release point is nearly identical as well.

[vette427-sbc]

Glad to hear you got it sorted out!
Did you happen to see if there was a part number on the PP? Just finished the install of the new Spec stage 2+ and did not have this issue. New fork and new tee also.

[SSLance]

No, and I wish now I would have. Usually I'm pretty good about snapping pics of new parts as I install them but didn't do that with this install for some reason. Dirty hands, hangover, only 4 hours of sleep, helper that wasn't really helping...all not good excuses but the best I have.

Glad you didn't have any issues. Let me know how you like that Spec 2 clutch once you get it broke in. It was one that was on my list also.