Speedway Illustrated article: Hauling Nightmares

[David Pozzi]

There is a Current Speedway Illustrated issue with "HAULING NIGHTMARES" on the cover. I speaks about racers getting tickets and fines for being "commercial haulers" and even fines for improperly transporting fuel.



This article pertains mainly to rigs above what we tow, but I've heard from some friends who had racing "team" logos on their autocross trailers and got stopped by police and asked a lot of questions. They were trying to place them in the catagory of commercial ventures "for profit" racing that would be required to keep log books of their driving hours, stop at all weigh stations, pay fees, etc.
Has anyone run into this with their hobby trailer?

I couldn't find a link to the article, but here is a quote from a newsletter that goes into it a little:

On a more sobering thought, I just read an article in Speedway Illustrated; "Towing the Line.......Hauling
Nightmares........Big fines for Racers. I strenuously encourage you to read this article. It is short, but very

sobering on how our fellow racers are getting fined thousands of dollars for things that they were totally unaware of.

Weight is a big one issue.

If your towing rig is over ten thousand pounds gross, your trailer and contents are over 10,000 lbs gross, or if both towing rig and trailer are 26001lbs, you need a CDL license and all the fun that comes with that. You must maintain a medical card in the vehicle, be subject to random drug testing, maintain a log, pay higher insurance rates, and follow other often expensive requirements.

You'll really love the part about towing with hazardous materials or "hazmat".

The Cliff note version is that you cannot have more than 50 gal of fuel in the trailer and none of that can be in a non-DOT container.

Fuel cells are not DOT approved, and as they are expensive enough, the cell manufactures have not gone to the

expense of DOT certification. There are some exemptions, but unless you’re like Lord Hesketh who put

James Hunt out in a pure white car, you may be guilty of "furtherance of a commercial enterprise." So no exemption for you.

Cops have learned to stake out speedways and have had a field day pulling racers over.

[SShep71]

Ignorance is never an excuse. The "Well I didn't know" should never cut it. If you want to pull a trailer you should know what your state requires of you. I had to learn the hard way pulling a trailer in California that there are some goofy rules, I wound up with a fine but I did get a small break.

[David Pozzi]

I had a friend who was returning to California after running his Camaro at the SCCA national autocross event. 80 odd miles into Wyoming, he gets stopped because his safety chain is scraping & making sparks. His Camaro is towing a small uhaul type enclosed trailer containing some new race tires he picked up from the tire truck at nationals. He sells magnetic numbers to Autocrossers & had his business name on the side of the trailer. The officer made him go back to the border & pay an exise tax on the tires he was transporting through the state. All because he was a "business". I think there were other issues, something about if he or his sponsor, Yokohama owned the tires, but it happened long ago. My point is, there are a lot of people hauling stuff for hire with hobby sized enclosed trailers & the police are trying to make them pay. We could get caught in the middle of this just by having a bunch of decals on our trailers. Or answering questions wrong.

At the vintage races I see huge 18 wheel rigs that are licensed as RV's & the drivers are saying they don't get paid to drive the rig, they do it for free, but they do get paid to work on the cars. This has been getting them by for now. Some are over length & there are issues with them entering California.

The article mentioned a guy who said the IRS wouldn't let him write off his racing as a Business, but the police said he was commercial because he competed for prize money, so they fined him for not complying with commercial hauling regulations.

[Damn True]

Not the exact same thing but I know a few folks that have been dinged for having rigs that were too long. I don't know what the regs are but I guess that over a certain length you have to have a CDL. Plenty of "toter-homes" and bigger 5th wheel boxes are FAR longer than Aunt Maude and Uncle Ned's RV.

[SSLance]

We just had this exact discussion on our local SCCA board. I called a MO highway patrol friend and had the MO laws regarding commercial vehicles explained to me. Keep in mind that every State can and might be different. All of this applies to combined vehicle weights under 26k btw, over 26k is a whole nuther ball game.

Say I take my truck and my trailer and haul a friend's broken car home with it as a favor, not a commercial vehicle.

Say my friend pays me $25 to haul his car home...commercial vehicle (all State DOT rules apply).

Anytime you use a vehicle to earn money in anyway shape or form, it's a commercial vehicle and all rules apply.

I asked about stickers promoting racing, sponsors or whatever, "Not for Hire" blah blah blah... Stickers mean nothing, either way. The actual intent and use of the vehicle is what determines whether is it a commercial vehicle or not. Putting "Not for Hire" on the side of a tow vehicle does not preclude one from being deemed a commercial vehicle.

Hauling your personal race car with your personal tow vehicle to compete in a personal race is personal use. If you have a race team (separate company) that owns any part of the vehicle or items being transported, then it's a commercial vehicle.

In David's example above, the transportation of the magnetic numbers for sale absolutely deems the whole vehicle a commercial vehicle.

Our main discussion revolved around the SCCA van used to pull the SCCA timing trailer to and from events. It got muddy because the SCCA is a non-profit organization. Yes, pulling the trailer to the site in essence creates income as it allows the event to run and make entry fees, but because the owner is a registered non-profit organization that can't make money...it's a little more murky. I'll find out today what the final determination was as our van actually made a trip to the MO highway patrol office for clear determination.

Great discussion though, I know several people that have been popped for DOT violations (mainly small business related, not race related) and generally it gets very expensive, very quickly...especially if it happens across State lines. There are lessons to be learned here for everyone.

[SSLance]

According to the senior Federal CVE (commercial vehicle enforcement) agent in Jefferson City, the SCCA van is not considered a commercial vehicle mostly because it did not fit the criteria of a commercial enterprise. We DO have to remove the "ads" on the rear of the trailer though. However, the van needs to be retagged to 18,000 pounds and drivers must have a Class E endorsement. Federal ICC and DOT rules and laws apply to interstate use and states laws apply to state registered vehicles/rigs.

IMHO the definition of "commercial enterprise" is pretty grey and I could see a State Patrolman with a bug up his rear being a stickler on this.

It's best for everyone to know their own State laws though and if ever stopped and questioned, be prepared to answer the questions correctly the first time through to prevent further hassle and possible fines.

[Ron Sutton]

In California, you do not need a class A or B license if the motorhome is under 40' and with trailer, the combined length is under 65'. When I had my multiple race teams, one of our vehicles was a motorcoach (39' 6") and a custom built stacker trailer (24' 6"). This combo was 64' ... so legal to drive with a regular license.

Or so I thought.

A CHP officer walked up to the coach when the guys were stopped at a truck stop for diesel fuel and walked around it. He found my driver Sal and asked if he had Class A license? Well ... "no ... why would we need one?" Turns out the trailer was "rated" at 15,000 GVW and if it is rated at 10,000 or above, you need a class A license. It didn't matter what the trailer weighed ... just what it was rated at.

So 120 miles from home (Sacramento) ... on the way to a race in Las Vegas ... carrying 2 race cars, supplies & crew members ... the CHP officer informs my driver the coach & trailer can not move without a driver with a class A license.

Sal called me ... and only thanks to my deep network of Class A rig drivers on speed dial ... was I able to have a class A licensed rig driver there in an hour and a half to keep the rig & crew rolling to their destination.

After the race weekend, I called my long time buddy Victor at the trailer company (TPD) and asked his advice. Victor said, "does the trailer ever carry weight over 10,000#?" Nope. "OK. Then, let's change the sticker on the trailer to read rated at 9,999#." I was like ... "we can do that?"

Victor said the trailer manufacturer can not over rate a trailer's capacity, but they can under rate them. The only concern would be legal liability if we ever carried over the rating. We did not. Loaded with 2 USAC Midgets (950# each) & supplies it weighed around 8000#. So TPD changed the rating sticker.


P.S. I read earlier in this thread, someone mentioned 1 55 gallon drum of fuel was the limit. We were told by CHP it was 2 drums. So if we needed to carry more fuel than 2 drums, we carried the rest in 5-gallon jugs ... which there is no limit on.

[David Pozzi]

Thanks Ron, the quote I have is from a Mid-West state, probably one of those things that varies.
Another issue in California is fueling from Non-Approved containers. A guy was cited at a gas station filling a jug which had a long hose to refuel motorcycles. The hose is not approved.


California requires a nozzle with "non-spill" nozzle, which has to be pushed against the tank to open the valve, then the fuel flows at about 1/4 the normal rate which takes forever.

I hear the plastic fuel jugs racers use are DOT approved for "transport" but how do you transfer the fuel from them to a car without an approved nozzle? Maybe they are available now.

Sorry, I'm getting off-track and want to stay on the trailer discussion. A comment was made stickers don't matter, but it will lead the officer in his questioning of you & what you say may go against the "evidence" on your car or trailer. If he suspects you are competing for money prizes, or advertising products, you may be treated as Commercial.

[David Pozzi]

I once went to a farm meeting on vehicle licensing, the California Highway partrol was there and there was disagreement between the officers on a question asked. They can ask the higher ups if there is a question but it showed me that some officers will nit-pick a LOT more than others, and a lot depends on the officer & his knowledge of the laws in question.

[Ron Sutton]

I once went to a farm meeting on vehicle licensing, the California Highway partrol was there and there was disagreement between the officers on a question asked. They can ask the higher ups if there is a question but it showed me that some officers will nit-pick a LOT more than others, and a lot depends on the officer & his knowledge of the laws in question.

Agreed. That is my experience too. That is why I shared my 2 drum story. The CHP that told us that could have been wrong. But that is how he practiced.

[BonzoHansen]

Iirc Albert was talking about this once, maybe when we at a run to the shore in nj. Maybe ping him.

Btw I hate those new anti spill deals too. I spill more gas now! /offtopic

[tigerracer]

I received some good advice from a fellow racer that let me use his 48 ft Featherlight to haul a car that I sold to a guy in New York and my vintage Sunbeam Tiger to race at Watkins Glen and Limerock. I had to get a class A license and he told me to take the registrations for the cars to prove they were mine. He garuanteed me that I would get stop going thru Texas. He was right, I was pulled over just east of Ammarillo, the highway patrol assumes you are commercial just by the size of trailer, good thing I had the car registration to prove they were mine.

Dale

[shmoov69]

DOT Nazi's..... Around here, my guess is about 90% revenue and 10% motor vehicle safety.

[andrewb70]

DOT Nazi's..... Around here, my guess is about 90% revenue and 10% motor vehicle safety.

We have a WINNER!

Andrew

[TheJDMan]

DOT Nazi's..... Around here, my guess is about 90% revenue and 10% motor vehicle safety.

It is all about generating revenue, safety is a by-product.

[Rifleman_Racing]

Im surprised more people don't know about this, has no one wondered why some of the really hardcore race trailers out there are all rated at 9999#, skirts the laws.

[parsonsj]

I agree most of this is about generating revenue, but that makes sense: the heaver the load, the more fractional wear to the roadway. That's why commercial haulers are subject to weight checkpoints and the like.

[parsonsj]

Another thought: I wish all driver's licenses in this country were CDL-like. Current passenger licensing standards are too easy, contributing to poor driving everywhere.

[srh3trinity]

If you do need a dot license, those may be getting more pricey as well. I am a physician and there is a new certification starting in mid may for dot medical examiners. It is expensive and more difficult to obtain meaning many docs won't go to the trouble of getting it. The ones that do may start charging more for the physical.

[rustomatic]

In CA (and probably everywhere else), chiropractors and physician's assistants (PAs) are allowed to conduct DOT physicals. Many doc-in-a-box places have stopped using doctors in favor of PAs for these services. Check the money box.

On the fuel hauling point, just in case you happen to have about a four-foot cube's worth of fuel in a trailer, know that you now have a tank (per quantity), and are subject to all kinds of hazmat rules and responsibilities (including the need for tank and hazmat endorsements on your class A CDL)...

It sounds like we need to return the old days of making a point of hard-butting our cars to the tracks themselves, on the road (when I've been this close to getting a trailer)...