Considering buying the SC&C touring plus package..are there better choices for the $

[Eric B]

Hey everyone....


I am ready to tackle the suspension on my 72 hardtop A body GS. My goal is to make the car more responsive and fun to drive on the street...less sway....carve some corners if I need to. May even enter a local auto cross if the upgrade goes well...but nothing too serious.....mainly just improve the driving experience and make it feel like a more modern car.


I am already running 17 inch wheels, good tires, and upgraded brakes.


I am driving myself crazy looking at all the options out there. Qa1 coil overs..UMI package...DSE package...ridetech.... I would really appreciate some inputs...


I talked to Mark at sc&c at length on Monday.....have pretty much decided on the "touring plus" complete package...seems like they have pieced together a nice system....but it is not cheap....$3500.00.




Are there better options out there for that kind of money that will produce better results based on your actual experience?.....or is there a cheaper way to get similar results?




Here is the list of items that come in the touring plus kit:
1. SC&C Stage 2 Plus kit - SPC adjustable front upper A-arms with greasable delrin bushings and offset pivots, on 4130 chrome moly cross shafts, and Howe Precision series Xtra tall upper and tall lower ball joints.
2. SPC tubular front lower A-arms with a ride height adjustment kit, and a pair of SPC progressive rate jounce bumpers.
3. SPC Performance spring kit (F+R).
4. Currie Currectrac rear trailing arms - billet aluminum lowers, and adjustable tubular uppers.
5. Hellwig tubular sway bars - 1 1/4" front with severe duty end links, and 1 1/8" adjustable rate rear.
6. Varishock QS1 single adjustable shock absorbers (F+R).

[marolf101x]

I edited sway bar pricing as we use the modular Muscle Bar front sway bar. All edits are in BOLD. Sorry for the screw up!

Though I am a bit biased as I am tasked with making great parts, I also drive our cars at a lot of events and am building a couple of cars at home, so I'm not just trying to sell you parts.
I want you to get the best parts available for your vehicle and what you will be doing with it.

Let's break down what most of these parts do (or should do) and cut through the crap:
Front Upper Control Arms:
-increased camber
-increased caster (could be adjustable arm, or "slug" system)
-ball joint angles corrected for lowered stance
-increased durometer bushings decrease deflection (poly, delrin, etc)
-increased strength over OE

Front Lower Control Arms:
-increased caster
-coil over mounts (revised OE spring mounts)
-increased durometer bushings decrease deflection (poly, delrin, etc)
-increased strength over OE

Spindles:
-upper ball joint raised for increased camber gain
-lower pin height to lower vehicle
-increased strength over OE

Tall Ball Joints:
-less expensive way of doing 80% of what the spindle does
-the longer the ball joint, the more prone it is to break (may be stronger than OE, may not be, depends on quality of parts)

Sway Bars:
-larger diameter than OE decreases roll
-increased durometer bushings decrease deflection (poly, delrin, etc)

Shocks:
-shorter stroke (or altered mount location) to properly fit lowered vehicle
-increased resistance force for more "sporty feel" or increased traction due to tuning ability
-increased durometer bushings decrease deflection (poly, delrin, bearing, etc)

Springs:
-shorter stroke (or altered mount location) to properly fit lowered vehicle
-increased rate for more "sporty feel" or increased traction due to tuning ability

Rear Upper Control Arms:
-increased durometer bushings decrease deflection (poly, delrin, etc)
-increased strength over OE

Rear Lower Control Arms:
-adjustable to set pinion angle
-increased durometer bushings decrease deflection (poly, delrin, etc)
-increased strength over OE

We can all agree that most of the "good" systems out there do nearly all of the list above.
So for the most part the systems are equal when comparing "apples-to-apples".

It all comes down to what makes you believe this purchase is a great deal:
-price (is it fair market value?)
-part quality (is it a good part in both appearance and function?)
-part adjust-ability (does it add any additional features)
-part availability (will you have it in a few days, a few weeks, a few months, or ever?)
-part manufacturer (is the company selling the parts the same company who built them?)
-warranty (does the company selling the parts believe in what they have enough to stand behind it?)
-customer service (will the company selling the part actually give a damn enough to help you out before and AFTER the sale?)


So why the ridetech kit over SC&C?
You can purchase our full coil over kit for as low as $3100 (using fixed valve shocks), or $3300 (using single adjustable shocks). Both include:
-front upper control arms
-front lower control arms
-spindles
-rear upper control arms
-rear lower control arms
-coil overs
And you can add the sway bars for $500 front (I had to edit as we only offer the modular Muscle Bar), $250 rear. So the "apples-to-apples" kit comes out to $3850 (using fixed valve shocks) or $4050 (using single adjustable shocks).

So you have to ask yourself what in the following list justifies an additional $350-$550?
-price: almost EQUAL
-part quality: EQUAL
-part adjust-ability: COIL OVER PROVIDES MORE SPRING RATE CHOICES AND RIDE HEIGHT ADJUSTABILITY
-part availability: EQUAL
-part manufacturer: ridetech MAKES 80% OF ALL PARTS WE SELL
-warranty: 1,000,001 MILE WARRANTY ON ALL RIDETECH SHOCKS
-customer service: EQUAL

Since all else is pretty equal I feel the shock warranty is worth $350-$550. Most of the aftermarket shocks available will live 10-25,000 miles. So let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they go 50,000 miles. When they need to be replaced you will spend more than that.

[mild2wildpaintngraphics]

I'm running ridetech air suspension on my Buick; nothing but top-notch parts and service!

[19,69camaro]

I really like the look of the SC&C kit. Its a very complete and balanced package. Plus it also has Johnny joints in the rear to help with any binding that may occur. That and you also get sway bars included for less money.

IMO coilovers are overkill for your situation. Nothing against ridetech, but for the money and what your looking to accomplish I would go with SC&C. For the record ridetech makes a killer mono-tube shock that I plan to put in my car once I get the change together.

[old66tiger]

Than Buick is completely off the charts!

[rockytopper]

For your goals you may be happy with the SC&C base package that uses Bilsteins instead of the more expensive Varishock. Base price for the kit is 2924$ Thats what I'm running and am very pleased with it's performance and street handling qualities. The car handles great and doesn't beat you to death on a rough back county road. The stance isn't to bad either.
You'll want to upgrade the steering box also if you haven't already.
Good luck with it
Rocky

[dhutton]

I had the SPC upper and lower arms, AFX spindles and Bilstein shocks on my 64 GTO. I loved the ride and handling. I don't think you can go wrong. Hellwig sway bars front and rear along with Currietrac rear arms. If I was building another A body I'd likely go the same route again.

[ponchoblue]

i also have that same savitske set up in my car i started with the bilsteins then went to the varishocks i was very skeptical because of the high price of the vari's but man was it worth it do it right once

[chevelletiger]

scandc.best services and no hyped up parts.marks a straight shooter he will tell you what really works and what parts dont work well for your abody,and let you think if thats what you want on your car no pressure sales from him.your great mark!

[daveybtv]

Im now on my second car, and going again with SC&C, Mark is awesome he wrote the book on muscle car handeling literialy!

[Jameson]

Marcus has helped me tremendously on my build as well and I have ordered all my parts through him. Not many manufactures/distributors will tell you why to not run certain parts together and are more interested in the sale. Marcus wants to see you happy with your purchase and knows his stuff and how to make it perform!

[TheJDMan]

Here is a likely senario. You are going to go with a base suspension setup and then head up Tijeras canyon or the Sandia Summit and quickly realize you want more cornering ability. IMO, you would be better off with something more than a base suspension. It will be cheaper to do it the first time than it will to go back and do it over. ridetech or SC&C you can't go wrong with either. You might also look at Hotchkis.

[Eric B]

Here is a likely senario. You are going to go with a base suspension setup and then head up Tijeras canyon or the Sandia Summit and quickly realize you want more cornering ability. IMO, you would be better off with something more than a base suspension. It will be cheaper to do it the first time than it will to go back and do it over. ridetech or SC&C you can't go wrong with either. You might also look at Hotchkis.

Wow....a Tijeras canyon reference....obviously a man who knows the area.....

[andrewb70]

I'll put my 2 cents in...

Keep in mind that I built my car more than 10 years ago and there weren't as man options for parts as there are now. My parts are mostly Global West, but essentially they are similar to what the package that you are looking at. The stars of the package are the AFX spindles. They really make the front suspension work on the a-bodies.

If I was to do it all over again, I would look at some different parts (I am listing this without any consideration for cost, so please adjust as needed). I really like the new Global West extended travel kit in the front. I think it is a very well engineered product and would make it great addition to the front suspension. I also really like the Global West rear coilover kit and sway bar arrangement. Bock kits use the excellent Penske shocks, which of course drive up the cost.

Andrew

[Eric B]

Well I decided to go with both of the top recommendations.....I will use the sc&c package with the varishock for the 72buick GS now and will eventually order the ridetech level 2 shockwave air system for my other 71 cutlass build. Looking forward to the comparison once I am complete.

[69*Goat]

Good choice on the SC&C stuff. Mark relieved my wallet by $3400.00 for the stuff to go on my GTO, and I can't wait to get it. Problem for me is, I have to wait until the car is back from the body shop in three months to put the stuff on... :(

[65BuickGS]

You'll be happy with your choice!!!
I just have the SPC uppers,,bilsteins,,the currie rear pieces and hellwig bars!!
Today I put just shy of 400 miles on and enjoyed ever bit of it,,,car drives awesome with Marks products and recomendations!!!

[Carl @ Chassisworks]

Mark puts together a solid package that really makes these cars work. The VariShock is easy to adjust and available with an air spring too so be sure to check out THIS PACKAGE when you're ready to do the next car!

Ya know, there are 100s (or more) of the A-body guys running around out there with our VariShocks but the only people who ever send me pictures of their cars is the Nova and early Camaro guys. What gives?

[Eric B]

Pictures coming once I receive and components are installed.

[Rod]

I never had any luck with the Varishock