Is Adding Weight Cheating?

[struck by Lightning]

I've been working on a slide weight system for the back of the truck.....make a turn and weight moves to the opposite corner of the truck (vise versa). So, is this cheating or just a engineering edge? Your Thoughts?

[TheJDMan]

I would call that transferring weight not adding weight. Whether or not it is cheating I guess would depend on the rules of the event.

[High Plains Mopars]

The rules in the events I have been involved with would call that cheating. They have all specificlly forbidden it. However, this was in sanctioned oval track racing, not any pro touring, free for all, limited rules type thing like Goodguys event. Other organizations that are highly organized and very competitive because of the diversity of classes, like SCCA and Nasa, probably forbid it too.

[bret]

No one will care until you're fast.

[FlyDoc]

^^^ and SCCA rules say that if it is not in the rules that you can do it, means that it is not allowed. it also states not to over think the rules.
I think its a cool Idea! but I think you F-ed up by asking, you should just done it and made is inconspicuous.

[FlyDoc]

^^^ and SCCA rules say that if it is not in the rules that you can do it, means that it is not allowed. it also states not to over think the rules.
I think its a cool Idea! but I think you F-ed up by asking, you should just done it and made is inconspicuous.

[mikedc]

How on earth is it helping you to shift weight towards the outside of your vehicle during a turn?


Is it a fore-aft shift that makes the difference?

[alocker]

Im with the post above, don't you want the weight on the inside of the turn?

[dontlifttoshift]

It's not cheating, in fact, your competitors will be glad you did it.

[Slick68]

Im with the post above, don't you want the weight on the inside of the turn?

No it offsets the weight to keep grip on both rear tires instead of all the weight being on the outside causing it to lean even more.

[Mike Holleman]

There was a device in the sixties called an Auto Safety Stabilizer that did exactly what you are considering. NC Highway patrol had them in the big Mopars they were using. It was a box that was maybe 6 x 6 x 30" long. Very heavy for it's size. Mounted in the truck directly above the axle. I had one in my 66 Chevelle that I acquired from a friend that worked in the HP body shop. It did work. As you entered a corner the body would start to lean ,then there was a fairly sudden correction. Rumor was that King Richard got caught with one by NASCAR. They were more commonly called gyros. As to your original question, weight is your enemy. Lighter is faster.

[struck by Lightning]

There was a device in the sixties called an Auto Safety Stabilizer that did exactly what you are considering. NC Highway patrol had them in the big Mopars they were using. It was a box that was maybe 6 x 6 x 30" long. Very heavy for it's size. Mounted in the truck directly above the axle. I had one in my 66 Chevelle that I acquired from a friend that worked in the HP body shop. It did work. As you entered a corner the body would start to lean ,then there was a fairly sudden correction. Rumor was that King Richard got caught with one by NASCAR. They were more commonly called gyros. As to your original question, weight is your enemy. Lighter is faster.

My first post was a little confusing but yes, this is what I'm toying with.

[struck by Lightning]

Im with the post above, don't you want the weight on the inside of the turn?

First post was confusing....my bad. Yes, weight will slide to the inside corner to help with traction.

[Barrrf]

Funny this question was asked. I just a long square tube on craigslist that came out of a Cadillac. The guy called it an anti-sway device and said it was filled with mercury and weighed in at almost 66 pounds.

So this has been done before. But I dont know how it could benefit.

[ohsolow]

Your good to go at Goodguys, will be interesting to see it work.

[David Pozzi]

SCCA does not allow moving weights.

[sik68]

I think you only want to add left/right ballast if you need to achieve a class minimum weight.

And, the translating weight should be below the roll center of the car. Otherwise, no matter how far to the inside it translates, it will still add load to the outside tire(s) and it will just hurt your cornering ability more.

Also, think about the acceleration/deceleration of the ballast as it moves across the vehicle...it could really mess with the vehicle transitions.

[struck by Lightning]

Your good to go at Goodguys, will be interesting to see it work.

SCCA does not allow moving weights.

Thanks for the info.

[rustomatic]

Although I've always loved a pickup truck's ride qualities with a couple hundred pounds of concrete or firewood added, the cornering prowess of said vehicle did not seem to improve with the high-mounted (bad) additional weight. One would think that a decent airbag system would however be able to monitor shifting loads effectively, but then again, air doesn't (seem to be able to) move quickly enough for an autocross corner transfer sequence...

As has been said above, it seems that removing stuff is usually better than adding (see quotes by Colin Chapman/Mr. Lotus). As an example, rather than getting taller lowering blocks, I recently subtracted a leaf from each of my (super high-tech/modern rear leaf) springs. The ride has been softened a bit, but will hopefully be compensated for with shock adjustments (and quality)...

It was cool seeing your pickup truck out at Marina a few weeks back--it's a great wave in the sea of Corvettes, Camaros, and that revoltingly quick turbo Porsche!

[mikedc]

There was a device in the sixties called an Auto Safety Stabilizer that did exactly what you are considering. NC Highway patrol had them in the big Mopars they were using. It was a box that was maybe 6 x 6 x 30" long. Very heavy for it's size. Mounted in the truck directly above the axle. I had one in my 66 Chevelle that I acquired from a friend that worked in the HP body shop. It did work. As you entered a corner the body would start to lean ,then there was a fairly sudden correction. Rumor was that King Richard got caught with one by NASCAR. They were more commonly called gyros. As to your original question, weight is your enemy. Lighter is faster.

I know Petty was stacking all the ballast weight to the left (inside) side of his car in about 1967. But I don't think he ever used a method of shifting it on-the-fly like that. He also manually lowered the front end height on his car with a socket once he got onto the racetrack, but that was a different thing.

But there was no rule against these kinds of things at the time, so it didn't qualify as cheating when NASCAR found out what he was up to. NASCAR just outlawed it from then on. That sort of gray-area stuff was standard practice for NASCAR racers at the time. Still is.