American Motors Xperimental full frame

[Ron S]

I kind of had this 1969 AMX fall into my lap. Originally thought I'd sell it, but after some investigation found the 2 seater was only 2900lbs from the factory. The more I looked at the car the more I thought it needed something. So it is going full frame, slightly stretching the wheelbase 7", running 335's on the front and rear, really should be experimental.

Already started stripping the car out, and building the chassis. I'm running a modified Jakes Rod Shop front clip, Strange F body Dana 60 set up for a torque arm, and watts link. It will be LS powered with a T56. Was going to run 315's on 11" wheels on the front, but figured why not put 335's on 12" wheels so I can rotate them(experimental).



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00135L-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00132L-1.jpg






https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00093L-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00076L-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00079L-1.jpg

[Yelcamino]

Damn Ron, 335s on all four corners? I think that bitch will stick! :cool:

[muthstryker]

Cool! Is this going to be another "$5000" Build?! Whats the weight on that fixed back seat? LOL!

[craigs73]

awesome!! you have anymore pics of the car? from the outside

[LeighP]

Cool build!

[Hugger67RSSS]

I have one of Jake's frames for my car. Great frame to build this car around, keep the pics coming

[coolwelder62]

Ron,Awesome project.

[Ron S]

Hurried to get these mounts made up before the Ravens game, I think I'll make some kind of gusset to attach the engine stands to the lower control arm mount.Good thing I have a few busted LS blocks for mock up. If this car was a little fancier, I'd have used the LS7 block

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00124L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00126L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00138L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00140L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00139L-1.jpg

[Kenova]

I'll bet you will have someone wanting your floor a week after the scrap man hauls it away.

I've always liked the AMXs. Should look good with big fat ones on each corner.

Ken

[454bug]

Great project Ron!

I look forward to this build. :twothumbs

[andrewb70]

Jesus Ron. You just can't be let loose near a plasma cutter....:-)

Andrew

[Ron S]

Jesus Ron. You just can't be let loose near a plasma cutter....:-)

Andrew

Kind of sinful Andrew, they were really nice floors and trunk I cut out. I've never started with a body this nice, really looking forward to no rust repairs. The stupid part is that I will be cutting the perfect quarters and front fenders for the whellbase change, and to fit the 335's, must be something wrong with me, wasn't nurtured enough as a child or something.

[78 Type-LT]

subs

[wiedemab]

Very cool! Gotta love your "just tear into it attitude"

Subscribing!

[Payton King]

And I thought your only skill set was in the beer drinking department.

Still looking for the new rack placement shot...oh yea, a 3/4 rear shot. LOL

[tazzz25906112]

Hummm looks like another favorite in the mix here buddy ;-)..... I just love the way you totally blow your rides apart and go all in pal,,,, I'm getting inspired here....
That's it,,, it'll all be your fault when I do something really crazy in the future buddy LOL....

[Mike Holleman]

From the looks of the chassis you are building I might see another experiment coming with this one. Underslung? Whatz going on in that head huh Ron? I like this build!!!

[Nessumsar]

I'll be keeping a close eye on this one. Where do you plan to stretch the body?

[lotarust]

Looks like the standard Ron build! Save the roof, throw out the rule book and start weldin'! I love it Ron, can't wait to see it!

[lesingepsycho]

I love, love, LOVE the Mustang and my best car buddy is nutz about the AMC/AMX so I'll be interested to see how this develops. I've already subscribed. But this raises some questions though. Wasn't the whole point of the AMX it's radically shortened wheelbase? Isn't an AMX with a lengthened wheelbase just a Javelin? The short wheelbase, long hood and ultra short deck was what was supposed to put it in a class of extremely nimble cars along with the Corvette (something which even the other pony cars can't claim).

[MrQuick]

I'll bet you will have someone wanting your floor a week after the scrap man hauls it away.

I've always liked the AMXs. Should look good with big fat ones on each corner.

Ken isn't that how it always works??? LOL


Great project, can't wait to see more. Always loved the AMX's but hated the suspensions on them.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00093L-1.jpg
Looks like Santa is going to have a new slegh this year. LOL

[Ron S]

From the looks of the chassis you are building I might see another experiment coming with this one. Underslung? Whatz going on in that head huh Ron? I like this build!!!

Was wondering if anyone would pic up on that, should have known it wasn't going to get past you Mike. Yeah, I'm really trying to think outside the box on this one, and really, really, trying to keep the weight down. The engineering on the rear suspension should be crazy, with the Watts link, and torque arm all on top of the frame. Its all experimental stuff for a street car, I guess we'll see how it works, should look pretty wild though.

[Ron S]

I'll be keeping a close eye on this one. Where do you plan to stretch the body?

Not stretching the body, infact I'm shortening the body a couple inches, and just pushing the wheels out on the corners, it all looks good in my head (alot of crazy sh*t going on up there), hope it looks as good in real life.

[Ron S]

And I thought your only skill set was in the beer drinking department.

Still looking for the new rack placement shot...oh yea, a 3/4 rear shot. LOL


I am pretty good at beer drinking, and heres the new rack placement shots, at least the mounts.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00129L-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00130L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

I love, love, LOVE the Mustang and my best car buddy is nutz about the AMC/AMX so I'll be interested to see how this develops. I've already subscribed. But this raises some questions though. Wasn't the whole point of the AMX it's radically shortened wheelbase? Isn't an AMX with a lengthened wheelbase just a Javelin? The short wheelbase, long hood and ultra short deck was what was supposed to put it in a class of extremely nimble cars along with the Corvette (something which even the other pony cars can't claim).

Its funny, the 97" wheelbase of the AMX is very good for drag racing, the rear axle was tucked up 12" compared to the Javelin, a real wheelstander. If you notice all the road race cars were Javelins, due to the stability of the longer wheelbase. I'm only stretching the w/b 7", which I'm hoping gives me the best of both worlds, like the title says experimental,we'll see how well it works.

[Zachalanche]

Was wondering if anyone would pic up on that, should have known it wasn't going to get past you Mike. Yeah, I'm really trying to think outside the box on this one, and really, really, trying to keep the weight down. The engineering on the rear suspension should be crazy, with the Watts link, and torque arm all on top of the frame. Its all experimental stuff for a street car, I guess we'll see how it works, should look pretty wild though.

With weight as a priority I am curious why you are going with the D60? A well built 8.8 could save 100#s or more. ok that was a guess, but the Dana 60's are heavy.

After seeing your last car I'm excited to see how this one turns out.

[Ron S]

With weight as a priority I am curious why you are going with the D60? A well built 8.8 could save 100#s or more. ok that was a guess, but the Dana 60's are heavy.

After seeing your last car I'm excited to see how this one turns out.

My hatred of 9" rears is epic, the 8.8's arent bad, but the posi units on both are terrible. If you run a Detroit on the street, they are a PITA, the clutch type have a very limited life span with any HP, and the trutracs break if you put sticky tires on them. I know Moser just came out with that Wavelock which is supposed to be pretty good, but its $900 just for the posi unit.

The powerlok Dana makes is indistructible, and with the underslug frame, I don't want to have to be working on the rear.I know the Dana is stupid heavy, especially the one I'm doing. A full float 60, with torque arm mount cast into the housing, .250 dom tubes, and a watts hanging off the 3/16" rear cover. Alot of the parts showed up today. I'll post some pics as soon as I unbox them.

[drflex]

very nice.. i'll be watching this one

[Mike Holleman]

Was wondering if anyone would pic up on that, should have known it wasn't going to get past you Mike. Yeah, I'm really trying to think outside the box on this one, and really, really, trying to keep the weight down. The engineering on the rear suspension should be crazy, with the Watts link, and torque arm all on top of the frame. Its all experimental stuff for a street car, I guess we'll see how it works, should look pretty wild though.
That will be a different build from what we are used to but that is what makes it fun. It is all starting to become a little more clear now. Have you got the Strange rear center yet? I'd like to see how that looks when you get it all laid out for the floater set up. That may be exactly what I need to have a rear that will live under my racecar. Keep the pics coming.

[Ron S]

Yeah Mike I got the center, really nice peice. Bought the center, some dom tubing, and the Moser snouts. I machined the inside of the tubes to accept 4 wheel drive front seals, kind of nice that I don't need to run those goofy aluminum seals. I'll post some pics as soon as I get a chance.

[RS_Customs]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00093L-1.jpg

Wow buddy, you look a lot different in the off season lol.

Good to finally see the build thread. Can't wait to see more.

Careful you don't rub the bad mojo off the old blue ls1 into this car too lol.

Robert

[Dirtleg]

Anxious to see how you are doing the 60. I was just running the same idea around in my head a couple weeks ago. Moser parts? Interesting project to say the least.




Greg

[Mike Holleman]

Yeah Mike I got the center, really nice peice. Bought the center, some dom tubing, and the Moser snouts. I machined the inside of the tubes to accept 4 wheel drive front seals, kind of nice that I don't need to run those goofy aluminum seals. I'll post some pics as soon as I get a chance.
Go ahead and figure a pump and cooler for the diff. into the mix. I don't know how much heat those seals can handle. The GM rear in my racecar gets well into the 300's with the pump and cooler in a hard 30 minute session. And I do have a small amount of knockback. So what you are doing may be exactly what I want to do to fix it. I want to stay torque arm but go floater. Mike

[asifnyc]

Ron,

so cool to see you doing an AMC. Just had my '74 Javelin race car on track for the first time this Saturday at Infineon.

go AMC !

[Ron S]

Got the one end of the tube done, the seal will push into the end of the tube on the housing side. Kinda cool that the seal has the axle guide built into it to make sliding the axle in easier, and keep you from damaging the seal. The Spohn torque arm came in, wow is that a beefy peice, 1" bolts on the money end, main structure is chromoly, super nice.

[Mike Holleman]

Got the one end of the tube done, the seal will push into the end of the tube on the housing side. Kinda cool that the seal has the axle guide built into it to make sliding the axle in easier, and keep you from damaging the seal. The Spohn torque arm came in, wow is that a beefy peice, 1" bolts on the money end, main structure is chromoly, super nice.
pics ?

[Ron S]

Something must be wrong with the website, won't allow me to post them, I can post them elsewhere. I'll post them as soon as it lets me.

[SRD art]

Not stretching the body, infact I'm shortening the body a couple inches, and just pushing the wheels out on the corners, it all looks good in my head (alot of crazy sh*t going on up there), hope it looks as good in real life.

I like your way of thinking Ron, the rule book was the first victim of the sawzall, then the sheetmetal, lol! Your fab work is as beautiful as the functionality. I'm available to help you see the vision on paper if'n you wanted to. :) Keep it coming!

[SRD art]

Oh yeah, back home in FL there was a local drag car builder that put 60's in everything he built, which was mostly Chevelles, Novas, and the like. Most cars ran BB Chevys on a 9.90 index or quicker and almost all of them came off the line on 2-3' wheelies. The Dana's a big bohemouth bad boy but also bullet proof. This build sounds cooler with every addition...

[Ron S]

pics ?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00143L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00144L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00145L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00146L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00147L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00148L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00149L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00141L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

I like your way of thinking Ron, the rule book was the first victim of the sawzall, then the sheetmetal, lol! Your fab work is as beautiful as the functionality. I'm available to help you see the vision on paper if'n you wanted to. :) Keep it coming!


I've never tried to put my visions on paper,it would difficult to explain to someone whats going on up there ,and probably hard to put down on paper.

I did have my brother photoshop an AMX picture with the additional wheelbase though, you can barely notice the changes.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/amx1XL-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/amx2XL-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/amx3X2-1.jpg

[Bulletpruf]

I've never tried to put my visions on paper,it would difficult to explain to someone whats going on up there ,and probably hard to put down on paper.

I did have my brother photoshop an AMX picture with the additional wheelbase though, you can barely notice the changes.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/amx3X2-1.jpg

You're right, can't really tell that the wheelbase has been stretched. FYI - I've got one of those in the garage (Big Bad Green '69) w/390 and a 4 sp... Sure wish I lived closer; I'd take that trunk floor off your hands.

Looks like it will be wicked when done. Wish you had kept it AMC powered, but you can't win 'em all.

Scott

[Ron S]

I do have access to a 401, but I just love the weight savings to HP ratio of the LS engines.

[Mike Holleman]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00143L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00144L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00145L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00146L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00147L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00148L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00149L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00141L-1.jpg
My kind of eye candy. Seals look like a good way to go. I think I may like Colemans hubs better. More single purpose. Only one set of stud holes in the drive plate. May just be opinion and not matter. Like that torque arm. Do they have a safety loop available that works with the Fbody setup?

[Ron S]

My kind of eye candy. Seals look like a good way to go. I think I may like Colemans hubs better. More single purpose. Only one set of stud holes in the drive plate. May just be opinion and not matter. Like that torque arm. Do they have a safety loop available that works with the Fbody setup?

Yeah, you can get a driveshaft loop. The nice part about those snouts, they are interchangeable with Coleman, so I could put either hub driveplate assembly on my housing. I liked the thickness of the Moser hub vs. the Coleman, but really don't like the 5/8 holes in the drive plate with 1/2 studs. I'm going to machine some filler rings to take up the difference, but it is kind of a PITA.

[454bug]

Ron, I sure wish I would have known you were going that route on floater setup... I would have made you a real good deal on my same setup... Prior to getting it welded into my rearend housing, I decided to upgrade to the GMR floater kit. I will have the Moser dual pattern hub assembly available for cheap... I was told that Coleman actually makes these floater setups for Moser. That's why their driveplates fit. In addition, they say one of the weak links of that system is the "lightened" area carved out around the axle splined area of the driveplates. If you ever have a problem of breaking or stripping out a driveplate, Coleman makes a driveplate that fits this setup that has a "Solid" diameter center area that's not been lightened and it is also drilled for 1/2" studs instead of 5/8" studs. I saw them the other day at a speed shop that caters to the circle track racing guys. The only deal was they were $140 a piece!

[Vinz68]

Very Cool!!! You should put a Nascar motor in it!!

[85coupe50]

This is going to be a project I look forward to seeing. Not many AMX's out there that will be like this. Enjoyed reading the build of the mustang and this will be one to follow till finish. Can't wait to see the finished product!

[AMC Racer]

I do have access to a 401, but I just love the weight savings to HP ratio of the LS engines.

... if you've got lots of spare cash and you want light weight AMC power, could go with an all aluminum 512 cu in AMC engine from Indy Cylinder Head ... definitely unique compared to everyones-got-one LS. Quicktime makes a bell that bolts an LS T56 to AMC, so trans would work.

A bit disappointed seeing a nearly rust free AMX chopped up, but the proportions actually look a bit better with the 7" stretch.

[Ron S]

... if you've got lots of spare cash and you want light weight AMC power, could go with an all aluminum 512 cu in AMC engine from Indy Cylinder Head ... definitely unique compared to everyones-got-one LS. Quicktime makes a bell that bolts an LS T56 to AMC, so trans would work.

A bit disappointed seeing a nearly rust free AMX chopped up, but the proportions actually look a bit better with the 7" stretch.


I looked at the Indy stuff, 20+K is way too many guckets for a power plant. I don't think I'll have half of that in the whole car.

Got the torque arm on the 60 center, will measure and cut the tubes and get the rear in the chassis,and the chassis under the car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00150L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00152L-1.jpg



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00151L-1.jpg

[Zanie]

Cool ideas, and great fab skills..........and nearly 1,600 views in three days!!
You should sell advertising in your thread!

[Kenova]

Got the torque arm on the 60 center, will measure and cut the tubes and get the rear in the chassis,and the chassis under the car.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00151L-1.jpg
Just the thought of dropping that on a foot is enough to bring a tear to my eye. I just screams "CAST ME IN ALUMINUM" LOL.

Ken

[jtomas801]

I thought the muttstang was bad ass, but this thing is going to be killer! I am definitely watching this build. Great job so far Ron.



Yeah, you can get a driveshaft loop. The nice part about those snouts, they are interchangeable with Coleman, so I could put either hub driveplate assembly on my housing. I liked the thickness of the Moser hub vs. the Coleman, but really don't like the 5/8 holes in the drive plate with 1/2 studs. I'm going to machine some filler rings to take up the difference, but it is kind of a PITA.

Would you be willing to make up another set of filler rings? I am in the same boat with my Javelin, but I am using the 5 on 5 moser gn hubs that originally came with 5/8" studs, but I pressed in 1/2" studs instead.

Thanks,
Jon

[Ron S]

Payton King and I were talking about this today, we figured the best way to correct this would be to take the other set of holes in the dual bolt pattern hub, and install two hardend 5/8" pins in two of the extra holes, tig them from behind. We figure it would be a much tighter fit, and less likely to shear. Just seemed like the rings would be a pain, and easy to loose.

[Mike Holleman]

Just send back the Moser drive plates and replace them with Colemans. Problem solved without all the welding and drilling. I really think the Coleman plates have some other advantages as well.Wait.Go back one sentence. The one about welding and drilling. For a minute there I forgot I was talking to Ron S. You are not gonna take the easy way are you. Later Gator.
Payton King and I were talking about this today, we figured the best way to correct this would be to take the other set of holes in the dual bolt pattern hub, and install two hardend 5/8" pins in two of the extra holes, tig them from behind. We figure it would be a much tighter fit, and less likely to shear. Just seemed like the rings would be a pain, and easy to loose.

[Mike Holleman]

Ron, Remind me next time we talk to tell you about the Miller welding equipment I picked up at auction. Got a deal on a couple of Syncrowave 250s and an XMT 306 CC/CV. Plus a few other pieces. Need a little advice on what to keep for my tig set up. later

[troyboy468]

Ron, it sucks that I have to get on here to see whats happening with the car....lol. I remember when I had all the time for cars and you had none...lol.

[Ron S]

Ron, it sucks that I have to get on here to see whats happening with the car....lol. I remember when I had all the time for cars and you had none...lol.


Yeah life is funny, hate to sound like a chick, but I kinda miss you coming around. You see the pics of Santa?

[troyboy468]

Yes shempaclause...lol

[66SuperSport]

Ron

Love the Mustang! Can't wait to see what you end up with here. Wish I had half the talent you do when it comes to fabrication. This thing is going to be KILLER!

[Mr. Anderson]

Very excited to see another build from you. The wheelbase change is a great idea too.

[dusterbd13]

mmmmmm.......

undersling, full chassis amx. don ron style.

thats just freaking cool.

im definately watching this one.

Michael

[Ron S]

Built this structure to suport the back of the car and the rear bumper, once I stripped the floor this thing was really flimsy in the back. Also cut out the inner rockers, and installed these kind of Z shaped peices, because I've designed this chassis to bolt in, to make installing the cage, and interior easier.

To make it bolt in, I had weld these 68" Z shaped inner rockers that have holes which line up with the frame holes. I had to drill and weld 8 sleeves into the frame on each side. When you set the body down on the frame it is a glove like fit, and the top portion of the Z supports the car, and then you intall 8 bots in each side, and 8 more in the rear. Very time consuming to do it like that, but I'll be very happy I did when it comes time to weld up the cage, and when its done, I'm going to send it out for powder coating, cage and all.The bottom pic is the structure that supports the rear of the car and back bumper .








https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00122L-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00121L-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00119L-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00116L-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00118L-1.jpg

[Yelcamino]

Very cool. Being able to R&R the body will make future tasks a lot easier!

[Ron S]

Got the engine stands welded in, and gussetted, and finally got the rack mounted and an alignment roughed in. Put the 335's on the ZO6 19x12's to check for clearance issues. Even at full lock, it looks like it clears everything.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00161L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00160L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00158L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00159L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00154L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00155L-1.jpg

[Mr. Anderson]

that is an insanely huge front tire. wow!

[David Sloan]

Sweet!
Looking good.

[Motorcitydak]

It seems too late to change your mind now but did you think about pushing the front tires farther forward? Cars like this always have more weight on the front end. If you move the rear tires back even more then there will be even less weight on the rears and even more on the fronts. I moved my front end 2 inches forward to get more space for the engine and to put a little more weight on the back end. Cool build tho, subscribed...

[Hotwhilz]

Got the engine stands welded in, and gussetted, and finally got the rack mounted and an alignment roughed in. Put the 335's on the ZO6 19x12's to check for clearance issues. Even at full lock, it looks like it clears everything.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00161L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00160L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00158L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00159L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00154L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00155L-1.jpg

Hi Ron, a heck of a project you are working on, in the picture, it seems that the steering arms are going upward, are going to do anything to correct bumpsteer? Other than that awesome build!!!

[exwestracer]

My hatred of 9" rears is epic,

51658

LOL...

Looks like an awesome build Ron. Can't wait to see what's in store.

[Ron S]

It seems too late to change your mind now but did you think about pushing the front tires farther forward? Cars like this always have more weight on the front end. If you move the rear tires back even more then there will be even less weight on the rears and even more on the fronts. I moved my front end 2 inches forward to get more space for the engine and to put a little more weight on the back end. Cool build tho, subscribed...

The front axle center line got pushed an inch forward the rear six inches back. AMC has the engine place really forward in the car, measuring from the front of he engine, the engine is moved back about 10 inches. Not that I like it, but the Dana rear in the car is stupid heavy, with the Watts link and all the tubing I have planed for the rear of the car, I'll bet its close to 50/50 weight distribution. hell my Mustang is 49 front/ 51 rear.

[Ron S]

Hi Ron, a heck of a project you are working on, in the picture, it seems that the steering arms are going upward, are going to do anything to correct bumpsteer? Other than that awesome build!!!

Its funny I just cut an eyebrow in the frame so the boot wouldn't scrape at full jounce. The frame stub came from Jakes Rod Shop,it is designed to use a Mustang Rack, cut the steering arms off the knuckles, and run bolt on fabricated steering arms(just like Morrison, and DSE). They do this so you can put the engine in the stock location, I knew my engine would be pushed back, so I took a different approach. I went to my parts house, dug through all the rack boxes to find any rack that looked close, took home about 20 racks pulled the boots and started measuring the pivots. When I finally found a rack with the correct width, I had to do the same with the inner tie rods. I used the factory C5 subframe to determine correct rack placement which worked pretty well. I do have a bumpsteer kit for a Corvette, but haven't desided the fine tuning yet.

[1red68]

Love the project Ron, keep it up.
i'm wish-n i was closer so it could be checked out in person..

[BADDRIDE II]

Payton King and I were talking about this today, we figured the best way to correct this would be to take the other set of holes in the dual bolt pattern hub, and install two hardend 5/8" pins in two of the extra holes, tig them from behind. We figure it would be a much tighter fit, and less likely to shear. Just seemed like the rings would be a pain, and easy to loose.

Good idea Ron, better than the machined rings for sure but you may want to install these pins in ALL 5 holes as I would not want all the engine torque just thrusting on 2 points/pins even if they are 5/8"...may as well dispurse amoung 5 as originally designed.

I am curious though as to your choice of Hub Kits (since you have chimed in on GMR Kit threads in the recent past as being "the best") when the focus of this rear was on strength and no maintenence. The Strange D60 talks for itself and is an excellent choice with its standard 35 spline carrier.......but then to transfer it all down to a light-duty hub body and 24 spline driveplate? Kinda like running a forged crank/rods, and then running a cast piston.....just saying.

Either way...cool build! :twothumbs

[Ron S]

The 5 pins would probably be good insurance, the short comings of the Moser stuff wasn't evident until I got it. The price I got on the stuff for was so cheap that I can afford to make a few mods. I will be limited to 30 spline axles, I have a few 30 spline powerloks laying around here anyway. Its funny every 3/4 ton Ford pickup truck in the world used a Dana 60 with 30 spline axles, every 1/2 ton Ford pickup used a 9". I don't think this 2900lbs. pro touring car will have any issues breaking 30 spline axles, but if it does I'll let you know, its experimental.

The GMR stuff I really do think is the best, love the way Jason looked at the current offerings and improved upon them. The only thing I couldn't get out of my mind, was that all of it is custom. This car is going to be my driver, if I ever get a chance to join Bill and the group to RTTC, I don't want to get half way across the country and have an issue, and not be able to get parts somewhere in BFE. The Moser stuff is interchangable with Coleman, and most of the other manufactures. God forbid something happen to GMR, you be screwed, that stuff doesn't interchangewith anything. GMR is making stuff that looks like the best in the industry, but I think this car will work without a hitch with what I have, we'll see.

[BADDRIDE II]

The 5 pins would probably be good insurance, the short comings of the Moser stuff wasn't evident until I got it. The price I got on the stuff for was so cheap that I can afford to make a few mods. I will be limited to 30 spline axles, I have a few 30 spline powerloks laying around here anyway. Its funny every 3/4 ton Ford pickup truck in the world used a Dana 60 with 30 spline axles, every 1/2 ton Ford pickup used a 9". I don't think this 2900lbs. pro touring car will have any issues breaking 30 spline axles, but if it does I'll let you know, its experimental.

The GMR stuff I really do think is the best, love the way Jason looked at the current offerings and improved upon them. The only thing I couldn't get out of my mind, was that all of it is custom. This car is going to be my driver, if I ever get a chance to join Bill and the group to RTTC, I don't want to get half way across the country and have an issue, and not be able to get parts somewhere in BFE. The Moser stuff is interchangable with Coleman, and most of the other manufactures. God forbid something happen to GMR, you be screwed, that stuff doesn't interchangewith anything. GMR is making stuff that looks like the best in the industry, but I think this car will work without a hitch with what I have, we'll see.

I agree, the 30 spline axles seemed to hold up decent in the old trucks (although most that eventually increased hp or tire size upgraded to 35 spline due to axle failure)......but do not recall any of them ever running 24 spline like you will be? Did any of the Dana's run less than 30 spline.....and wonder why?

I know some people's out/defense on the 24 spline weakness is NASCAR, but when a NASCAR takes off, not only does it dam near get a push start, but their cams do not even come in until probably 6-7000 rpm or so....so when a NASCAR takes off it is probably pushing 300-350 hp max and probably even less torque, thus why we do not see more failures than they already have and why it is not reasonable to say that these hubs/drive plates can handle 750hp.

As for repair/interchangability of parts on a floater hub as you know...is very minimal. Maybe a set of bearings or at worst a drive plate (if you run a 24 spline). Well the GMR hub takes a very standard Timken race/bearing/seal that can be had at any auto parts store (Kragen/Auto Zone/Napa/Pep Boys)......as for the drive plate, if I am not mistaken, Jason originally had a Speedway Engineering (which I do believe is interchangable with Moser/Coleman) 24 spline driveplate on his proto type until he decided to improve with the 35 spline drive plate. So if you really believed in this 24 spline driveplate you could even run them on the GMR hub (although this is bordering a sin).....but as for ever replacing a GMR 35 spline driveplate on one of our cars while driving to the coast......never happen. As for breaking a 35 spline axle on one of our cars....never happen. So I do not know what type of maintenence or replacement part you would need if running GMR.....parts that are designed/machined even better than OE that even go 100's of thousands of miles. Site member Donny (dontlifttoshift) seems to drive all over Gods creation, and tracks his car on his GMR kit and has not been seen on the side of the road stranded.....sounds like Moser's discounted price/sponsorship trumped your better judgement. JMO

Sounds like by the time you are done with your kit, it will not be an on the shelf replacement item by Moser or Coleman.

Well other than your floater hub choice.....it is all good, good luck!

[Ron S]

I love when someone says never happen, it makes me laugh. I have building cars for more then 30 years, and I weigh the pros and cons of every purchase I make. I appreciate that your such an advocate for GMR, hey its a good product, seriously looking at for my Mustang(more of a track car). Dude, have you ever seen the slicks on a Cup car? There is NOTHING I'm going to do with a pro touring car with 200 tread wear tires that will get close to the limits on these parts. Every Dana equipt Hemi car Chrysler built had 23 spline axles, and none of them ever had an issue, most of the early truck stuff was 16 spline,never saw alot of failures with it either. I could spend more, and it would be stronger, liked the bearing spread and the steel hubs on the Moser parts, and like that fact that they are off the shelf parts. Will have to a little time changing what I don't like, hell I modify everything.

[BADDRIDE II]

Fair enough....you do like modifying everything, so these will be a good fit.:cheers:

[shortrack]

I know some people's out/defense on the 24 spline weakness is NASCAR, but when a NASCAR takes off, not only does it dam near get a push start, but their cams do not even come in until probably 6-7000 rpm or so....


FWIW a Nascar runs 31 spline axles......

So whats the wheelbase now?

[andrewb70]

FWIW a Nascar runs 31 spline axles......

....

He meant at the driveplate, not at the diff...

Andrew

[Ron S]

FWIW a Nascar runs 31 spline axles......

So whats the wheelbase now?

Andrew is right, on that the drive plate end, the axle is 1.5" and 24 spline, the axles Baddride is talking about are 1.5" 35 spline.

The wheelbase will end up being 104", 7" longer then the original 97"

[WILWAXU]

Another great build!

Look forward to the updates.

[shortrack]

Andrew is right, on that the drive plate end, the axle is 1.5" and 24 spline, the axles Baddride is talking about are 1.5" 35 spline.

The wheelbase will end up being 104", 7" longer then the original 97"

Ohhh....sorry my mistake

Another FWIW.....a Nascar Busch (Nationwide) series car has a 105" wb and they run 190mph on a regular basis....the Sprint Cup is 110

[Ron S]

Heres one don't don't see too often, a Dana 60 center section in an oven, cooked for about 45 minutes so the tubes would push in. The tubes had about .003" press, alittle tougher then I was hoping to get in, they are pushed in so tight I really don't seem like they will need to be welded LOL,looks alot like a 3/4 ton pick up rear.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00162L-1.jpg




https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00164L-1.jpg

[Dan S.]

What did you baste it with?

[Kenova]

Did you chill the tubes too?

Ken

[Ron S]

What did you baste it with?

Sweat, plenty of sweat

[Ron S]

Did you chill the tubes too?

Ken


Yeah, still a really tight fit, as the tubes bottomed out in the housing and it cooled the tubes galled up.

[coolwelder62]

Looks like there was enough room for some stuffing.LOL

[bonecrrusher]

Ron - dont know how I missed this - this is a badass looking project!!

[andrewb70]

Ron,

How did you fixture that damn thing to even begin pressing them in?

Andrew

[Ron S]

Its kind of helpful that a buddy runs a driveshaft shop. I gave him the tubes and snouts once I cut them to length, machined the snout to a .003" press, pushed them into the tubes, then dial indicatored them for straightness, and fixture welded and cooled them on the driveshaft machine. The welds a gorgeous. Getting the tubes in the housing required a hot housing, a cold tube, and a 1" grade 8,fine threaded rod, about 2' long, and 2 big press plates. The rod does one tube at a time, pulling between the snout and the flat spot on the inside of the housing, from the inside of the tube. Sweated my butt off ratcheting them in.

[Ron S]

Set the rear up on the frame, and put a wheel on, I have to admit I'm loving it. Will get the center crossmember and torque arm crossmember built tommorow.Hoping to get the body on Sunday

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00166L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00167L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00169L-1.jpg

[srh3trinity]

That is a lot of tire! Looks like another great build.

[Yelcamino]

Ron, the build is moving along fast! I know they're the same size, but for some reason the pictures make the front tires look bigger than the back.

[John Wright]

Wow...just look at those big ole rollers on all four corners....is my tire envy showing?

[Mike Holleman]

The next few steps are the ones I really wanna see. Never really seen an underslung chassis build in progress. I understand the concept but I want to see how it plays out. The Mustang looks lonely Ron. Take it out and give it some love before the snow falls. Wish I had some time to come help. I'm pulling the racecar apart and starting the 97 Firebird track car all at the same time.

[coolwelder62]

What brand are the tire's.Look's Good.

[John Wright]

What brand are the tire's.Look's Good.They look alot like these:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Ecsta+W710&partnum=33VR9EW710

[nine lives johnny]

those tires are huge!?!? i don't think you'll be able to get enough heat into them especially with a UTQG of 80. you might be quicker with something smaller or adding more weight into the car.

[Ron S]

those tires are huge!?!? i don't think you'll be able to get enough heat into them especially with a UTQG of 80. you might be quicker with something smaller or adding more weight into the car.

Experimental, we will see

[Ron S]

What brand are the tire's.Look's Good.

They are the Kuhmo's, they are closeouts. Needed them for mockup, got them new for $106 a peice, I kinda dig them though.

[lotarust]

Two things I know Ron can handle, thinking outside the box and putting the heat in to the tires! I have no doubt he can handle those big ass sneakers!

[WS6]

Fantastic idea Ron. I'm really interested in seeing the underslung chassis too. Keep up the pictures and great work as always.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

gawdaamn.. this thing is gonna be cool!

[Torquedork]

Curious as to where you're extending the wheelbase. Behind the door or in front of the door.

Any concept looks???

[dusterbd13]

i definately have tire envy. my god, those things are huge.

and one of the cool things about an underslung chassis is the ability to make a perfectly flat undercarriage for aero.
hmm....

ron, you could do that. hell, you can do anything. i bet you could even make your own one off spindles. ive seen you do everything short of that between this car and the mustang.....

michael

[Ron S]

Got the torque arm set and the center of the rear crossmember built. Was hoping to get the body set on tomorrow, but it seems I'm going to get a Christmas tree instead



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00172L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00170L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00171L-1.jpg

[racin66coupe]

this will be awesome!
really like the underslung rear

[dropit69]

WOW Ron this is gonna be an awesome build..will this one have windows?..lol..

[Ron S]

WOW Ron this is gonna be an awesome build..will this one have windows?..lol..


Yeah Darrin, windows, heat, wipers, I'm even considering A/C

[Ron S]

i bet you could even make your own one off spindles. ive seen you do everything short of that between this car and the mustang.....

michael

Its funny you say that, I am considering making a spindle for the front, that will use a full floating hub, and C5 corvette geometry

[John Wright]

Two things I know Ron can handle, thinking outside the box and putting the heat in to the tires! I have no doubt he can handle those big ass sneakers!LOL...I was thinking the same thing.

[justimagine]

Jesus Ron - i don't even know what to say....subscribed!!

[Ron S]

Had to build this shackle pivot for the torque arm. Its alot more sophisticated then it looks, the mount gets a roller bearing in each side.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00173L-1.jpg

[BADDRIDE II]

Its funny you say that, I am considering making a spindle for the front, that will use a full floating hub, and C5 corvette geometry

Are you thinking of using a hollow snout or? Would'nt it at this point add quite a bit positive WMS?

[racin66coupe]

is all that tigged?

[Ron S]

Are you thinking of using a hollow snout or? Would'nt it at this point add quite a bit positive WMS?

No, if I design it from scratch, I can use a hollow snout, move the whole attachment surface to the rear of the spindle to create enough clearance for the hub. C5 brake rotors are probably only .250" away from the lower ball joint, and unfortunatly need to keep that same distance to keep the scrub radius and geometry correct.

[Ron S]

is all that tigged?

Alot of the chassis is tigged, but not all of it, just too time consuming. Unfortunatly I work ten hours a day at my regular job.

[elitecustombody]

Ron, what's the deal on that little truck?

[preston]

335's on the front are the new hotness.

I'm a little confused on your plans for a new front spindle, I'd liek to see what you have in mind. Would you continue to use the vette bolt pattern ? I looked real close at using vette stuff for my build but was scared away by all the hub weakness issues, although the SKF hubs are good. I used GN circle track hubs and setup the spindle to bring them inboard as much as possible, but still have to run 9" backspace on an 11" wheel to get the SR that I want. But damn that stuff is beefy, and not reallly all that much heavier believe it or not. Pluse direct mount rotor (ie no hat) makes for a very stable setup. Brake pad knockback is non-existent. Maybe I'll post a picture up to inspire you in whatever you are doing.

I kind of thought about building something liek that Cortex spindel that uses the modern sealed hub mostly to get a build in ABS sensor and maybe save 3 lbs and be able to use "normal" offset wheels but I just can't see moving backwards to "weaker" setup.

[nine lives johnny]

go go go man keep up the good work!!

[BADDRIDE II]

No, if I design it from scratch, I can use a hollow snout, move the whole attachment surface to the rear of the spindle to create enough clearance for the hub. C5 brake rotors are probably only .250" away from the lower ball joint, and unfortunatly need to keep that same distance to keep the scrub radius and geometry correct.

Hmmm, Jason/GMR is working on the same type rear mount application for the serious "race" crowd as a bullet proof system to compliment his rear floater hubs (great minds think alike).

I do know GMR currently has a "street" type replacement C5 hub of which I know are on a few cars for testing (including mine....but mine does not count yet since it is on stands!) and are doing great, and have shown zero signs of stress per Jason who is monitering them. So for now, I know he only sells them as a "street" application until further feed back is had, and then still will most likely conservativly sell as street/Auto-X application that would suffice the average Pro Tour car.

The new design he said will most likely cater to the hardcore, higher speed track car/racer like yourself! It will be tough (not impossible) fitting everything through the stock upright opening (which is why Jason said he may even design a whole new C5 upright) with a 2" snout, unless you go with a steel hub body (heavy though) and that still may not fit. Then there are concearns of just how much added stress a C5 upright can take even moving some of the burdin/stress inboard?.....I would assume a slightly smaller snout would be needed for sure if a aluminum hub body would be used due to additional material needed for strength, but may be the way to go to keep weight down of which should also be important to a real race car. If you are planning a new steel upright and steel hub body I would think that would be undesirably heavy. Either way the final design will be killer I'm sure! Yours or his.

Few pics of my lighter duty set-up! I know its not a 2" snout....but definate improvement (and serviceable) over stock hub.
5214852147

[preston]

CAn you show us the backside of that hub, or attached to the spindle ?

I know I kind of see the C6 stuff as lightweight, but there are also a lot of serious vette racers pounding on them with 3200 lb cars that do okay. Yeah the hubs are a wear item but its not like they are failing.

Anyone know what a bare C6 upright weighs ?

I'll have to doublecheck but the C6 hub assembly is about 7-8 lbs, I was surprised how heavy it was. My GN "Nascar" hub is a giant chunk of beefy aluminum and it only weighs about 6.5 lbs with bearings.

[Ron S]

Ron, what's the deal on that little truck?

Thats my Dodge Power Wagon, I've been scrounging parts, and pecking at that thing since the 80's. It is setting on a late 70's frame, it sports an old school Hemi, Dana 60's front and back, and a 727, with a 205 transfer case. Of everything I have ever owned, I think its my favorite.

[Ron S]

Hmmm, Jason/GMR is working on the same type rear mount application for the serious "race" crowd as a bullet proof system to compliment his rear floater hubs (great minds think alike).

I do know GMR currently has a "street" type replacement C5 hub of which I know are on a few cars for testing (including mine....but mine does not count yet since it is on stands!) and are doing great, and have shown zero signs of stress per Jason who is monitering them. So for now, I know he only sells them as a "street" application until further feed back is had, and then still will most likely conservativly sell as street/Auto-X application that would suffice the average Pro Tour car.

The new design he said will most likely cater to the hardcore, higher speed track car/racer like yourself! It will be tough (not impossible) fitting everything through the stock upright opening (which is why Jason said he may even design a whole new C5 upright) with a 2" snout, unless you go with a steel hub body (heavy though) and that still may not fit. Then there are concearns of just how much added stress a C5 upright can take even moving some of the burdin/stress inboard?.....I would assume a slightly smaller snout would be needed for sure if a aluminum hub body would be used due to additional material needed for strength, but may be the way to go to keep weight down of which should also be important to a real race car. If you are planning a new steel upright and steel hub body I would think that would be undesirably heavy. Either way the final design will be killer I'm sure! Yours or his.


I talked to Jason about that setup, and really feel he was on the right track, but felt I was going to be the first guy to push that set up to its possible limits. I hate to admit it, but ripping up the 1.3 mile straight away at VIR at 160mph,all that goes through my mind is wheel bearings, and lug nuts. I don't want to have to think about failure of any kind.

What I have rolling around in my head is an all new steel upright using a 2" or Imsa style snout, tigged together in peices, then lightened on the mill. The hard part of that setup ins the proximity of the rotor to the lower ball joint, it really limits you to snout placement, and kind of forces you into running a normal C6 hat.

[Ron S]

335's on the front are the new hotness.

I'm a little confused on your plans for a new front spindle, I'd liek to see what you have in mind. Would you continue to use the vette bolt pattern ? I looked real close at using vette stuff for my build but was scared away by all the hub weakness issues, although the SKF hubs are good. I used GN circle track hubs and setup the spindle to bring them inboard as much as possible, but still have to run 9" backspace on an 11" wheel to get the SR that I want. But damn that stuff is beefy, and not reallly all that much heavier believe it or not. Pluse direct mount rotor (ie no hat) makes for a very stable setup. Brake pad knockback is non-existent. Maybe I'll post a picture up to inspire you in whatever you are doing.

I kind of thought about building something liek that Cortex spindel that uses the modern sealed hub mostly to get a build in ABS sensor and maybe save 3 lbs and be able to use "normal" offset wheels but I just can't see moving backwards to "weaker" setup.


I will stay with the 5 on 4 3/4, with a 19x12 wheel with 8.25" back spacing. I want to be truthful, I've got so much crap to fabricate that the upright is pretty low on the list. I will probably fab the whole car with the factory spindles, then build the uprights after the car is built, and possibly put a set on the Mustang

[BADDRIDE II]

can you show us the backside of that hub, or attached to the spindle ?

I know i kind of see the c6 stuff as lightweight, but there are also a lot of serious vette racers pounding on them with 3200 lb cars that do okay. Yeah the hubs are a wear item but its not like they are failing.

Anyone know what a bare c6 upright weighs ?

I'll have to doublecheck but the c6 hub assembly is about 7-8 lbs, i was surprised how heavy it was. My gn "nascar" hub is a giant chunk of beefy aluminum and it only weighs about 6.5 lbs with bearings.

Pic of retaining nut with locking washer underneath (not seen) that holds hub body on and proper preload to dual tapered bearings. (just like GMR's rear floater hub)
52174
Pic of spindle mounting flange. (stock C5/C6 are cast pieces...these are machined,treated,coated steel)
52175
Pic of rear side of hub with rotor adapter attached (notice the hub centric,light weight,press fit rotor adapter...very solid...no more hats!)
52176
Another shot of them installed on my DSE clip from back side
52177
Just a shot of a stock C5/C6 Hub to show what one of the weak points are when "tracking" your car under extreme conditions, the ball bearings themselves usually do not fail. (wheel mount flange actually separates from hub body...starts as hair line crack...then this) C5/C6 flange is steel and approx. 3/8" thick.....GMR's hub is the flange and will not go anywhere.
52178[attach=config]52174

[BADDRIDE II]

I talked to Jason about that setup, and really feel he was on the right track, but felt I was going to be the first guy to push that set up to its possible limits. I hate to admit it, but ripping up the 1.3 mile straight away at VIR at 160mph, I didn't want to have to think about failure of any kind.



What I have rolling around in my head is an all new steel upright using a 2" or Imsa style snout, tigged together in peices, then lightened on the mill. The hard part of that setup ins the proximity of the rotor to the lower ball joint, it really limits you to snout placement, and kind of forces you into running a normal C6 hat.

VERY understandable.

It will not be a simple task given many limitations.....that is why I truly believe this current GMR hub design is the answer for perhaps 98% of guys that will daily drive, Auto X, and even see some moderate track days. It is a true "bolt on" that is certainly lighter/stronger than stock.....and looks cool too! Look forward to seeing what you may come up with :twothumbs

[Ron S]

Those parts are a work of art. My junk never seems to end up with alot of jewlery, and I truely don't know why. I think I just dig welded parts. LOL

[SparkyRnD]

this is an incredible build!

[coolwelder62]

Those hubs are a work of art.

[Payton King]

Holy Hi-Jack Batman, I can't decide if this is a sales thread or if badride II needs to go ahead post his build pictures here as well.

[BADDRIDE II]

Sorry....was not meant to hi jack, I thought some mite appreciate the added input/pictures/options. I dont know of many threads that do not consist of this type input. Next time someone request pictures I will ignore as to not offend others. You sure know how to make a guy feel bad.....

[andrewb70]

Let's not get our panties in a bind here folks. I see no problem with related pictures being posted here, especially since Ron asked for them.

Since we are on the topic of C5/C6 bearings, don't forget that SKF offers a racing bearing:

http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/123

I don't want to get into a pissing match as to what's better or whateverthefuk. Just posting options.

Andrew

[preston]

Thanks for the photos. I have never seen a C5/C6 flange separated from the bearing before, that is some scary stuff.

That is a pretty cool design from GMR, I'm surprices no one has come up with that before. YOu do lose the ABS sensor though. I guess a pair of SKF's is going to be $1k+ anyway though, so considering it includes the "hat" and is infinitely rebuildable they actually sell for a good price although at first glance I was like "whoa".

I'm very interested in the weight of a bare C6 upright if anyone has one laying around.

[Ron S]

The knuckle with upper ball joint and nut is 5.4 pounds. You know I forgot all about the ABS part of that, I may just run the SKF bearings on this car, because it will have ABS. That was one of the main reasons I like the Strange 60, is that it is set up for the 3 channel 2002 Camaro ABS ring on the ring gear.

[preston]

Thanks Ron great info. THat is light - discouragingly light from my point of view ! My steel spindle with no ball joint weighs 12 lbs. Ouch ! My GN aluminum hub is 6 lbs, about 1/2 lb lighter than a sealed C6 hub.

[Ron S]

I'm sure you realize that is without the hub. Yeah GM on the weight vs. strength side of things really did there homework. Preston you like me over build everything, I am making a concious effort on this car not add any lbs. that will make no significant increase in performance or saftey. Finally realizing that that with the properly placed chromoly bars I don't need a massive 2x4 frame.That coming from a guy who speced a Dana 60 for his car, that will be my only weight splerge though.

[BADDRIDE II]

That is a pretty cool design from GMR, I'm surprices no one has come up with that before. YOu do lose the ABS sensor though. I guess a pair of SKF's is going to be $1k+ anyway though, so considering it includes the "hat" and is infinitely rebuildable they actually sell for a good price although at first glance I was like "whoa".



The knuckle with upper ball joint and nut is 5.4 pounds. You know I forgot all about the ABS part of that, I may just run the SKF bearings on this car, because it will have ABS. That was one of the main reasons I like the Strange 60, is that it is set up for the 3 channel 2002 Camaro ABS ring on the ring gear.

Technically yes on losing the ABS as it is not built into the GMR hub as stock C5/SKF hubs.....but as Ray (454Bug) is in the process of doing for his TC system....all that is needed is a simple reluctor ring machined that "bolts on". I believe J. Parsons pioneered one of these for his project as well....only the one needed for this GMR application would be a lot simpler/less expensive since it does not have to double as a rotor adaptor....it would simply be a ring. Hope this helps keep the dream alive for you and others! :idea:

[RJ66]

Wow Ron this is an awesome project! I'll have to get out of the garage more often & log on, I had no idea you were building an AMX also. Keep up the great work I'll be checking in!

[Ron S]

Yeah Randy,loved what you did with Jimi's AMX. This will probably be not near as polished as that, but I can't wait to start shaping the quarters and fenders, hope it looks as good as I keep picturing in my head. Ron

[Payton King]

I was not trying to make you feel bad, I was trying to keep a thread on track. I can appreciate the well known fact of how much you love the GMR stuff and I am sure Jason loves to have an advocate, but there are many ways to accomplish the same goal under the constraints of any project. I also know first hand that Ron did a tremendous amount of research before he started the AMX and that research included diaolog with Jason at GMR.

I must have been on my "man period" yesterday and was overly sensitive to a thread taken in a completely different direction on how a person's project could supposedly be better if he had just used these different parts. Ron did not ask to see pictures.

It is not my place to be the "thread police." That is the OP's job.

Back to the regularly scheduled program...Still looking for that 3/4 rear shot with the body in place and I am going to need a front shot too! LOL

[jimhamptons]

Wow! Awesome build Ron. My first muscle car was a 69 AMX and it is still one of my favorites from that era.

[andrewb70]

....Ron did not ask to see pictures.

....

You Sir are correct, it was another user, I was mistaken.

Back to the project....

Andrew

[Ron S]

Wow, all this offensive picture talk, I was afraid somebody had some shots of me naked or something. Now that, would be offensive. Saturday hell or high water there will be a body on this frame with a 3/4 rear shot. Should be depressing for me to see what kind of tire coverage issuses I will be facing.

[jtomas801]

Hey Ron,

I found a couple pictures of a IMSA AMX that looks to have stretched fenders, thought you might like to see them.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/IMG_2414-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/IMG_2433-1.jpg

Thanks,
Jon

[Ron S]

Thanks Jon, I am only hoping my tire coverage issuses are that minor. I have done so many searches on these cars, its amazing how few modified ones there are. I have been storing the body at a buddy of mines shop, and building the chassis at home by measuement, and memory only. The body has to be out of there on Saturday so it will be the first time the skeletin meets the body, can't wait. Ron

[Yelcamino]

Thanks Jon, I am only hoping my tire coverage issuses are that minor. I have done so many searches on these cars, its amazing how few modified ones there are. I have been storing the body at a buddy of mines shop, and building the chassis at home by measuement, and memory only. The body has to be out of there on Saturday so it will be the first time the skeletin meets the body, can't wait. Ron

Ron, unfortunately I'm not available on Saturday (meeting with realtor) but if you still need a hand on Sunday, let me know.

[parsonsj]

I believe J. Parsons pioneered one of these for his project as well....only the one needed for this GMR application would be a lot simpler/less expensive since it does not have to double as a rotor adaptor....it would simply be a ring. Hope this helps keep the dream alive for you and others! Jason and I have had a conversation about the possibility of GMR making a reluctor available on his hub. More to come after his move to the desert. :)

[GrabberGT]

Wow. Looks like fun. Im subscribed.

[dusterbd13]

just further proof that flares make everything awsomer. thanks for the imsa picture.

michael

[Ron S]

Ron, unfortunately I'm not available on Saturday (meeting with realtor) but if you still need a hand on Sunday, let me know.Thanks so much for the offer Herb, by Sunday I hope to be kicking back. Work has been so crazy lately, and I've been thrashing just to get the car out of there, once its out of there my plan is to sleep for about 4 days.

[Yelcamino]

Thanks so much for the offer Herb, by Sunday I hope to be kicking back. Work has been so crazy lately, and I've been thrashing just to get the car out of there, once its out of there my plan is to sleep for about 4 days.

No problem Ron. If you do need an extra set of hands during this build, I'm not too far away. :twothumbs

[syborg tt]

Car looks like it's going to be a blast and I can't wait to see the progress.

[Ron S]

Got the frame finished and under the car. The tire coverage issues are not near as bad as I thought they would be. Thing is crazy looking. The bottom ended flat and smooth.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00176L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00175L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00182L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00184L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00185L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00186L-1.jpg

[racin66coupe]

this is awesome! More pics!

[dusterbd13]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00184L-1.jpg

that made me giggle. my wife looked at me funny. when i showed her, she just looked at me funny.

i cant wait to see a full on rear shot, and a fenderd front shot.
what are you thingking, 4" flares?

[454bug]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00185L-1.jpg

Ron, that looks SWEET!!! :twothumbs

Is this picture with the KDW tire using a Corvette 18" x 9.5" wheel with like a 285 or 295 tire?

If so, is everything still looking okay for the larger front tire/wheel? At least a 315...

When I was mocking my car up with the 335 front tire it would actually touch the front headlight bucket at full lock! I'm having to shave the back of the headlight bucket off and run a shallower-type beam! :rotfl:

[johngross]

I look forward to your posts. Great project. Would love to see the rear suspension, springs etc. I'm not up on the inverted setup, or would that be setdown?

[Yelcamino]

Damn Ron! That's a real nice fit!

[RS_Customs]

Looks great buddy! Any pics of how you attached the frame and body? or just sitting there for now?

Robert

[Mike Holleman]

I'm starting to have a wooden moment here. Or "now I see" said the blind man. I like it. That thing is gonna be fun. Trim the damn light buckets. Go for the 335's. Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead.

[Ron S]

Sorry guys, camera went dead when I needed it most. The front is getting 335's I have the tires, but had only one set of 19x12 wheels, so I had to put the 18x9.5s to move it around. I put the 12 on the front just to see how it looked, it was AWESOME.

[Ron S]

Looks great buddy! Any pics of how you attached the frame and body? or just sitting there for now?

Robert

No its bolted down, I'll post some pics tomorrow when I get a chance.

[craigs73]

oh that car is gonna be sick!!!!!! dare i say maybe better than the stang :lol:

[CruizinKev]

wow looks sick!!!! awesome work so far!!! :twothumbs

[wellis77]

Looks great Ron!

[jtomas801]

Perfect! Can't wait to see the flares/fender stretch on this one. Good job.

Thanks,
Jon

[coolwelder62]

Very insteresting.Cool

[andrewb70]

Win!~

Andrew

[Payton King]

Dude! That is bad ass right there.

[85coupe50]

That is going to be a BAD AMX! Great work.

[Ron S]

Got a few pics today, kinda shows how the body attaches. Used 4 wheel drive lift blocks to locate the rear while I get the coilover mounts made. It almost seems impossible to make that body look good with that much drop, but that is what I said about the Mustang

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00193L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00187L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00189L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00192L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00191L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00194L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00195L-1.jpg

[66SuperSport]

That thing is freakin' crazy !!! More, I want to see more!

[RS_Customs]

Nice work! I've have thought hard about doing my project with a bolt on body like that. Are the sides bolted through the holes in the frame?

Robert

[justimagine]

F-ing awesome, who ever would have thunk it - and then attempted it! I continue to draw inspiration, Ron.

[Ron S]

I made new inner rocker panels, with nuts welded to the inside, then welded tubes through the frame. Kinda time consuming but I love that the body comes off.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00114L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00116L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00120L-1.jpg

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Got a few pics today, kinda shows how the body attaches. Used 4 wheel drive lift blocks to locate the rear while I get the coilover mounts made. It almost seems impossible to make that body look good with that much drop, but that is what I said about the Mustang

Are you kidding me? Looks like a Ron Schwartz build to me. Great work Sir...!

[coolwelder62]

Wow!! very well thought out.

[dusterbd13]

stupid fab question:

how do you go about welding nuts to thicket steel? i need to do that on a lakewood bellhousing, but cant ever seem to get them to stick. what kind of nuts? any special procedures?

Michael

[Ron S]

stupid fab question:

how do you go about welding nuts to thicket steel? i need to do that on a lakewood bellhousing, but cant ever seem to get them to stick. what kind of nuts? any special procedures?

Michael

Thicket steel? I am assuming you mean thicker steel. I tigged the nuts to the steel plates, but it can be done with a mig, just need to get the amperage correct.

[racin66coupe]

You can also get threaded inserts that are thicker and stronger than nuts to weld on

[racin66coupe]

Ron- this is an incredible build! do you have any pics or procedures from when you were building the initial chassis?

[Ron S]

I find it easier to build the perimeter portion of the chassis first, then I have something square to work off of. I'm sure the Morrison would have a more high tech, way to do it, I find it hard to keep something square with all the welding.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSC00135L-1.jpg

[Martin71RS]

Wow Ron, I liked the Mustang build....but this one might even be better.

I am seriously impressed :-)

[Ron S]

Main hoop got bent and tacked in tonight, the front bars started, Looks pretty good, need to get the watts link calculated before I get the rear bars in.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/rollcage1L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/rollcage2L-1.jpg

[racin66coupe]

hey, I think your rear end may not be at the right angle :idea::wrc:

LOL looks awesome

[Ron S]

This thing is crazy looking

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/amx6L-1.jpg

[wellis77]

Very cool Ron. Love the look of it!

[Yelcamino]

This thing is crazy looking

Yeah, but crazy in a good way!

[xtreme]

Man your cars move quick! Looking good, love the fat corvette wheel

[RomsMotors]

Looking good Ron, Is it going to be ready for Motor State?
Keep up the good work.

[RS_Customs]

How much room is above the main hoop? Did you get it all the way up so us tall guys and ride lol.

Robert

[Poopy]

stupid fab question:

how do you go about welding nuts to thicket steel? i need to do that on a lakewood bellhousing, but cant ever seem to get them to stick. what kind of nuts? any special procedures?

Michael

I always start the weld on the thicker metal and blend it over to the thinner metal with a mig.

[johngross]

This is kind of a personal question. Do you ever sleep? I know shops that don't move this fast. Keep it up!

[Ppd1979]

Incredible build so far

[andrewb70]

This thing is crazy looking

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/amx6L-1.jpg

Ron,

That thing is going to look like a square roller skate!

Andrew

[56pickup]

This thing is crazy looking

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/amx6L-1.jpg

Ron Looks killer man! Love the meats on the back!

[andrewb70]

Also, with the centerline of the rear end sitting so high up in the body the back of the trans will have to be raised up quite a bit to get the driveline angles right. Good thing you are making a whole new trans and driveshaft tunnel, cause it's going to be HIGH!

Andrew

[Ron S]

This is kind of a personal question. Do you ever sleep? I know shops that don't move this fast. Keep it up!

Not sleeping much , working 14 hr days at my regular job these days. I'm cheating on this build, I did all the chassis and will do the sheetmetal, but my buddy Domonic just opened a shop doing cages (DC Performance), and had an opening, and I jumped on it. The guy does phonomenal work, even he was suprised that I was paying someone to do something on one of my cars. My mad dash to get the body on the chassis was to catch his scheduling window for the cage. Its started now, so I might as well finish it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/apillar1L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/apillar2L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

Also, with the centerline of the rear end sitting so high up in the body the back of the trans will have to be raised up quite a bit to get the driveline angles right. Good thing you are making a whole new trans and driveshaft tunnel, cause it's going to be HIGH!

Andrew


Its funny Andrew, the engine and tran are level, and the pinion angle os 0, the drive shaft at ride height will be just about level (no problem). Now trying to make that body look somewhat good (problem), hoping I can pull it off.

[Kenova]

This thing is crazy looking

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/amx6L-1.jpg

It's starting to look like a Hot Wheels car, and that is a good thing.

Ken

[andrewb70]

Its funny Andrew, the engine and tran are level, and the pinion angle os 0, the drive shaft at ride height will be just about level (no problem). Now trying to make that body look somewhat good (problem), hoping I can pull it off.

That's about how you want it, I'd say!

Andrew

[bhcustomdesigns]

You nailed the stance of the car it looks great!!! keep up the great work!!!! :twothumbs

[85coupe50]

Fantastic work... Love the removable body!

[Ron S]

Looking good Ron, Is it going to be ready for Motor State?
Keep up the good work.

I'll be there, I don't know if I will be sporting a Mustang or an AMX

[Ron S]

Another odd view

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/ammxL-1.jpg

[Scott Parkhurst]

Super cool build. Crazy is good!

You're a good man building a good car...can't wait to see it.

[Ron S]

Got the A pillar bars in tonight, loving how high, and tight they ended up. Hoping to get the rest of the Watts stuff built this weekend, car should progress pretty quick after that.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAmx1216201115L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAmx121620112L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAmx121620116L-1.jpg

[Yelcamino]

Looking good Ron! You should be driving it by spring time!

[egoman]

Got the A pillar bars in tonight, loving how high, and tight they ended up. Hoping to get the rest of the Watts stuff built this weekend, car should progress pretty quick after that



Yea its about time you quit draggin your feet on this.

[dusterbd13]

should progress pretty quick?
what do you call the pace yove been keeping up so far????

hell, iots taken me months to get my new seatebelts mounted.

michael

[andrewb70]

Looking good Ron! You should be driving it by spring time!

At this rate it will be moving under its own power in a month!

Andrew

[Motorcitydak]

Im really liking this build. Its cool to not only see your ambition and originality but the speed at which you make progress. I love seeing builds that are done with no/minimal bolt on stuff but you usually have to wait months and months to see any progress (like my build). I look forward to more stuff from you

[454bug]

Hey Ron,

I thought I'd give you some motivation you probably could relate to... :rotfl:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/2656P7240078large-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/2656P7240079large-1.jpg

[Ron S]

Thanks Ray, everytime I see a pic of those cars all I can say is, MAN THOSE CARS NEED BIGGER TIRES! I like the Big Bad Blue cars, if I didn't have the Mustang I think I'd go that route. I really think the wheelbase change and body shortening is going to help the styling of this car, but I guess the only way I'll know for sure is to finish it.

[Ron S]

At this rate it will be moving under its own power in a month!

Andrew

6 speed and bellhousing just showed up, all I really need is an engine, fuel tank and radiator, and this thing should be moveable. I also need brakes, but stopping isn't as important as going.

[Chevelle LT1]

stopping isn't as important as going. Truer words were never spoken ;)

Ron - Car looks great, always entertaining and personally motivating seeing your projects come together.

~ Jason

[RS_Customs]

6 speed and bellhousing just showed up, all I really need is an engine, fuel tank and radiator, and this thing should be moveable. I also need brakes, but stopping isn't as important as going.

Another clutch-less dog style trans?

Robert

[Ron S]

Another clutch-less dog style trans?

Robert

No its a Quicktime bell (Thanks Payton), and a new Magnum T56. This going to be more of a driving car (with 335's on the front)LOL

[Ron S]

Got the fins welded on the Dana cover, had more time straightening the cover then I did making and welding the brackets.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00202L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00203L-1.jpg

[racin66coupe]

what are those for? ( sorry for the dumb question..)

[Ron S]

They will get a series of holes on them, and the watts football will mount to them and should have several inches of adjustment up and down.

[monteboy84]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/DSC00191L-1.jpg

Just something to think about, but from track experience with torque arm cars, we've found that swinging front mounts like this tend to produce bind under throttle. Basically, as the rearend is trying to drive forward on the angle of the lower links, the torque arm is trying to pull its front link into a straight vertical position. So, once the link is vertical, things are all bound-up. That said, because of this action, we found it to work best when the angle on the link was such that the top was further to the rear of the car than the bottom.

What I've been mulling over on the TA suspension design I'm currently working on is to use a sliding front mount, to look very similar to leaf spring sliders that are used in place of shackles. If it's primarily a street-car though, probably won't make a noticeable difference.

With all that said, your build vision, speed, and quality never cease to amaze me, I'm truly in awe of what you do. Can't wait to see the finished product on this one.

-matt

[John Wright]

Ron left the fan and heater core in this car....LOL

This thing looks tough sitting over those huge steam rollers. Amazing stuff.

[preston]

>Its funny Andrew, the engine and tran are level, and the pinion angle os 0, the drive shaft at ride height will be just about level (no >problem). Now trying to make that body look somewhat good (problem), hoping I can pull it off.

I have the same issue, with 0 pinion angle my driveshaft is only 0.5 degrees angled up to the transmission. Seems to work fine, but twice now in the past 2 years I have finished a track day to encounter a loud rhythmic banging sound at driveshaft speed - sounds like there is missing tooth in the rear end or something. It seemd to go away after replacing the front u-joint. So you may or may not find that there is not enough u-joint angle for them to be healthy (remember how they tell us a u-joint with no angle in it will quickly wear). My driveline guy kind of scoffs at my theory but that is what I have observed. I am waiting for the next "failure" before claiming this is really what is happening (the current "failures" have been too far apart and punctuated by other problems).

If/when it happens again, I may try to raise the back of the trans a 1/4" to see if that helps.

Just one more thing to worry about.

BTW I drove my car on the freeway with 335 Toyos instead of the usual 285 Michelins and other than noticing the "weight" fo the front end package it wasn't bad, ie the dartiness/wandering didn't seem any worse.

[Ron S]

>Its funny Andrew, the engine and tran are level, and the pinion angle os 0, the drive shaft at ride height will be just about level (no >problem). Now trying to make that body look somewhat good (problem), hoping I can pull it off.

I have the same issue, with 0 pinion angle my driveshaft is only 0.5 degrees angled up to the transmission. Seems to work fine, but twice now in the past 2 years I have finished a track day to encounter a loud rhythmic banging sound at driveshaft speed - sounds like there is missing tooth in the rear end or something. It seemd to go away after replacing the front u-joint. So you may or may not find that there is not enough u-joint angle for them to be healthy (remember how they tell us a u-joint with no angle in it will quickly wear). My driveline guy kind of scoffs at my theory but that is what I have observed. I am waiting for the next "failure" before claiming this is really what is happening (the current "failures" have been too far apart and punctuated by other problems).

If/when it happens again, I may try to raise the back of the trans a 1/4" to see if that helps.

Just one more thing to worry about.

BTW I drove my car on the freeway with 335 Toyos instead of the usual 285 Michelins and other than noticing the "weight" fo the front end package it wasn't bad, ie the dartiness/wandering didn't seem any worse.


I can't remember what is in your car for rear suspension Preston, I know the torque arms or truck arms for that matter should probably be alittle harder on front U joints due to the fixed rear suspension mount, and the fact that the joints never sink the way Spicer and alike say they have to. Never had any issues with the Mustang, but I seem to change the car so much, I never give it a chance to wear out. I never thought about it, but 0 on everthing may have the U joints wearing in only one spot, something else to think about.LOL

[RS_Customs]

From what I remember 3-5 degrees combined opposing angles is what you after to keep them in the good zone and the vibration down.

I use to have a good link saved but can't find it. So I did a quick search, there is a lot of stuff out there on it. Here are a couple links if you get bored, lol.

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/91758/index.html

http://www.drivelinespecialist.com/Tech1.htm

Robert

[tazzz25906112]

Congrats another killer build buddy,,,,, guess we'll need another one of those quick 2 hour conversation we seem to enjoy... I'm going though event withdrawals already ;-),,, how about you? LOL....

[Ron S]

Congrats another killer build buddy,,,,, guess we'll need another one of those quick 2 hour conversation we seem to enjoy... I'm going though event withdrawals already ;-),,, how about you? LOL....

I'm right there with ha brotha, I wanta go fast!!!!

[sr73bu]

Great Job Ron! Amazing fab work and creativity!

-Sean

[johngross]

Well if you don't wish to change the angles maybe you could lathe a set of babbit bushings and replace the rollers in the u joints. The rollers are for allowing less wear on moving parts but on relatively non moving (cap to crosspiece) parts, it might work. Besides you like to be different.

[Ron S]

Down bars are done, the door bars are next, and then the rear of the car is going to get real busy with tubing.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAmx121920119L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAmx121920118L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAmx121920116L-1.jpg

[coolwelder62]

The cage look's outstanding.

[RS_Customs]

Can't wait to see the chassis and cage setup with the body pulled back off. Should be a mean looking go-cart lol.

Robert

[Rybar]

Pretty cool build Ron, looks like you have alot fans with your scratch build style. I know I am one myself

[DCPerformance]

Another odd view

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/ammxL-1.jpg

I love this pic, be neat to have this view with the body off. HINT HINT

[linkstar69]

Just great work Ron, like the others have said I too really enjoyed the mustang and as a mopar guy I really like the out side of the box nature of the Amc.
I'll enjoy watching how you build the watts link set up, I put one under my 69 dart to take the job of locating the axle away from the leaves, but I just adapted some late model ford stuff to do it, nothing custom like you're doing.

[Ron S]

Getting closer on the cage, and got most of the watts laid out. Have an X that goes between the watts links, and the door bars, and she'll be coming back home.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAMX122220128L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAMX122220125L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAMX122220122L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAMX122220124L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAMX122220123L-1.jpg

[coolwelder62]

Coming along very nice.Somebody use to race dirt cars.

[454bug]

Hey Ron,

Everything looks great on the cage. The only issue I am wondering about is the diagonal bar in the main hoop... If you ever plan on running a NASA or SCCA event I'm pretty sure they require the diagonal bar to be from the driver's side attached to the top portion of the main hoop (within 12" of the radius) and diagonally to the passenger's side lower portion of the main hoop. The other requirement they have is the diagonal bar is supposed to be the single piece design and the "seat bar" is the one that is supposed to be split. If you don't plan on running those type events, it probably doesn't matter.

Just checking! :cheers:

[jtomas801]

To add, I believe I read that if the diagonal is in two pieces it has to be an "X" instead of an diagonal, to be legal in SCCA or NASA.

Looks great Ron! What are you planing to run fuel tank? It doesn't look like you have much room left in the trunk with the axle moved back.

Jon

[Ron S]

The whole cage is 1 5/8" chromoly, if I remember correctly SCCA requires 1 3/4", so no its not built specifically for SCCA. I designed it to stiffen the car without adding too much weight, and for head room, vision, saftey, and ease getting in and out of the car. This is a driver, built to run in the A.S.S. (LOL). This will definitly be one of the safest cars in the series, and once I close everything up and put carpet(yes carpet) on the floor, it won't look near as busy.


The fuel tank has worried me since I dreamed up this build, I really wasn't sure how tight the rear compartment was going to be until the watts bars went in, now that they are in I can get it figured out. I think I can buy a poly tank from Speedway that has no holes in it yet, and stand it up rather then laying it flat, or build one out of aluminum. Either way I will have to fab the internal fuel pump and trough like I did in the Mustang.

[Mike Holleman]

Ron, Have you given any thought to a custom fuel cell? From my past experience I am going to be hard pressed to not go that route with future projects that will be tracked. They can be built in almost any shape. You won't have issues with fuel getting away from the pickups and there is a huge safety advantage. When I look at the area you have to work with, custom a fuel cell would be fairly easy to fit. Mike

[racin66coupe]

It doesnt look all that tight in the pictures, but pictures can do that sometimes.. Have you looked into any circle track cell's and modifying for more of a road course setup? I would think that you could get one to fit pretty well going from just infront of the "kick-up" back twords the rear body mount, and across, with the bottom of the cell even with the top of the frame rail. the only thing is there wouldnt be a ton of room if you ever got rear ended or backed into a wall. but then again, I've seen a bunch of full race cars that don't have a ton of room from the rear bumper to the cell

[Ron S]

The more I look at these pics my buddy Mark took, the more tempted I am to finish the flares and floor, bolt the car back together, leaving it in its original faded baby sh*t yellow paint. If only I could figure a way to fade out the quarters and fenders to match.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAMX12221146L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/12/RonsAMX12221148L-1.jpg

[Dan S.]

Any color you want to match, fade, feather, can be done. Artificial rust... other effects... no problem.

[Bryce]

Ron,

It would be a cool sleeper with the stock paint!

[coolwelder62]

How do you like TN250 tube notcher.I luv mine.