American Motors Xperimental full frame

[narcotix]

Maybe an extra engine, too?
53815

Sorry, Ron...didn't mean to pollute your awesome thread.

Hah, great reference! My close friend's "car" with a Dana 60. That pic is from a photoshoot at the now defunct Engle Cams location in Santa Monica.

Back to normal programming.....

[Ron S]

I think the majors snows are finally over, and I'm able to put the snow removal equipment out of the garage. Started dialing the fenders in, the 335's have made the it a bit of a job, but its getting there. Trying to do both sides together so its not so hard to replicate a month from now.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/DSC00945L-1.jpg

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[64LS1Nova]

Looks great Ron! Much better

[Jetfixr320]

Looks great!!

[dangina]

looks great! when are you going to chop the roofline? :)

[Motorcitydak]

The hood came out really well and the fenders I think will look seamless even before body work! Are you going to build a front splitter? May want to cover up the front of the tire

[Ron S]

This week, I'm going to try to fab a bumper/ splitter which will tie into the fenders a little smoother then Rambler did.

[Ron S]

I usually feel like a have a pretty good vision as to what I'm building. This bumper however is going to be a trial an error exercise. When I got home tonight I started tacking some crap together to get some ideas from. The ends I haven't touched yet, but the middle is some kind of start. The lower section would get some vents, and it still would get a splitter on the bottom of it. In a couple pics I visegripped a piece of 3/4" square on the bottom to give it more height, but I don't know. I'll push it outside tomorrow and get a pic on the ground. What do you think?


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/09/DSC00849L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/DSC00950L-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/DSC00952L-1.jpg

[Wesley J]

Looks phenomenal Ron. The lips at the bottom of each step will mimick the splitter.

[tommycomfort]

Looks great Ron! If I didn't know you better I would say you were an "artist".

[Ron S]

What does that mean Tom?, I can be touchy feelly, and sensitive. ahhh F you!!! LOL

[bonecrrusher]

Looking good Ron!

[Ron S]

Pushed car outside for major garage cleanup, bent a couple pieces of sheet metal over my knee to cover the blinker light and see what it looked like. I'm pretty sure the whole bumper needs to be taller. It is a funky looking car, but its starting to grow on me.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/02/DSC00969L-1.jpg

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[GNon18s]

You have a huge driveway!

[Tucks69]

Looking good Ron!

[65_LS1_T56]

You have a huge driveway!
the AMX is really small Justin, it makes it look huge :rolleyes:

[Kenova]

You have a huge driveway!


the AMX is really small Justin, it makes it look huge :rolleyes:

Kind of like having a girlfriend with small hands.:naughty:

Ken

[72BBSwinger]

Dig the Dodge shortbox! LOL! I would do what I could to keep the original bumper where it rolls into the grille opening, to me that part looks right. Maybe try some flat sheet over the license plate recess and the rest of the front lower part?? What you did doesnt look terrible just IMO the opening looks cool stock.

[Jetfixr320]

I've been looking for a Girl with small hands and a big driveway

[Ron S]

Getting the front bumper a little closer, I got the new bumper ends made, and am trying to get the middle figured out. To be honest I don't hate the middle now that the ends are fixed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC00980L-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC00996L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

Because we got another 6" of snow today I didn't work, so I did get my bumper welded together. Had to close the license plate opening for the fiberglass work, because this is just a plug to make the mold off of. Reshaped the opening to make it more of a port (which will get cut out once the glass part is made) then a license plate hole. Roughed the mud in, and shot some primer. Turned out pretty good, still don't know what I'm going to do with the ends until I get the fenders finished. The splitter will go on the bottom of the flange.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC00997L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC00999L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC01000L-1.jpg

[Dave B]

That looks amazing!

[67SSDan]

Dude, that looks pretty amazing as is... but I think you've got more there. What about angling the splitter back forward? Just thinking out loud here.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

shooot.. a nice little rear spoiler and I think that would just be the tiiiiicket..

[Ron S]

Dude, that looks pretty amazing as is... but I think you've got more there. What about angling the splitter back forward? Just thinking out loud here.

I'm trying something alittle different on this car, I want the splitter to be adjustable. So the actual splitter will have the same vertical tongue that will slide behind the one hanging from the bumper, which I should be able to raise and lower. Its more about function then the look, both tongues will be flat black, so you won't really see them too much though.

[Mike Holleman]

Given any thought to tying in a bellypan to your splitter?
I'm trying something alittle different on this car, I want the splitter to be adjustable. So the actual splitter will have the same vertical tongue that will slide behind the one hanging from the bumper, which I should be able to raise and lower. Its more about function then the look, both tongues will be flat black, so you won't really see them too much though.

[Ron S]

That is the master plan Mike, but we'll see. This winter has me so behind, I just want to get it going.

[Ron S]

I am truly getting my a$$ handed to me by these AMC front fenders. When cycling the suspension, at full compression these 19x12 wheels and 27" tall tires are killing me. I've tried everything, and I mean everything to try to keep a reasonably sized flare. When I get the fender to clear at full compression, the flare is just absolutely stupid looking. I think I'm going to have drop down to 18" wheels. The 335-18 tires are a full inch shorter, its not a lot, but I need every fraction of an inch I can muster. I planned on running 18" wheels and, Rivals anyway. I'm just not ready, and I wasn't sure what wheel I was going to run. Does anyone have a cheap 18x12 wheel with ZO6ish backspacing that has been scratched, dinged, slightly bent, that I could use for mock up? If not I guess, I'll try to search out replica wheels. Thanks, Ron


On a side note, if anybody wanted to know if 19x12 ZO6 wheels will clear big brakes, even 15" big brakes they will.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC01004L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

With all the changes in everything else, why should the torque arm be any different. With the X through the middle of the car, now there is no room for a shackle for the torque arm. My buddy Brian Schien machined me out these fancy sliders which will weld to middle of the X. Bought the little bearings from McMaster Car, should work pretty well.

I did come up with some 18" wheels, John at CCW graciously sent me a set to use for mock up.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC01011L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC01012L-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC01017L-1.jpg

[LSXZ28]

Incredible work Ron!

[72BBSwinger]

Torque arm is gonna work nice, and the nose is cured!

[Ron S]

Fenders pretty much kicked my a$$, the 19X12 wheels, and 27" 335's on the front are not conducive to attractive fenders. Ended up looking like a flared 66 Bronco. I ended up getting a set of 18x12 C14's on loan from John at CCW (thanks John). The 18" 335's are about an inch shorter in diameter then the 19's, which seem to have cured or at least helped the problem.

Nothing is going easy. Put my driveshaft in, and the 1350 yoke hit my torque arm slider box. Ended up making a driveshaft hoop out of some 5" pipe, which became a integral part of the slider box. With all the welding the bearings would no longer fit in the slots that Brian machined for me. So he surface ground the 4 sides, and remachined the slots. Smooth as butter now, but what a pain.

The driveshaft in this car is at kidney height so I always planned on running a driveshaft hoop, just not one this beefy. This car is starting to remind me a little of that Animal House line "Overweight and underpower is no way to go through life" Its close anyway.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC01018L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC01021L-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/03/DSC01026L-1.jpg

[linkstar69]

Awesome work as always.

[Mike Holleman]

It is hard to see everything that will be effected by a design change. I'm fighting with my first roll cage install in my Chump Car build. A fraction of an inch in one corner can throw you off a ton in another. Pulling my hair out! How you have gotten thru this with no more "issues" than you have says a ton about your vision from the start.

[Ron S]

Got the other side tacked together, trying to make them identical is the hardest most time consuming part. Yeah, this thing is low, had a hell of a time getting it off the jacks. Finish welding the sides tomorrow, and then form a piece of metal for the top. Then finally get to start flinging mud. Weird how the black wheels don't show well.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01056L-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01054L-1.jpg

[Jetfixr320]

Wow! :-)

[liquidh8]

That looks bad ass! glad to see you are making some more progress on it.

[Eric Howell]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01052L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01057L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01054L-1.jpgWow! Never thought it could look so good!!!! IMHO you nailed it! Sorry for all the !!! but I love this build.

Ron, thank you for all the inspiration.

[tommycomfort]

Alright, I am probably way to old to use this term, but I think it looks "Sick"! Keep up the great work Ron!

[andrewb70]

Alright, I am probably way to old to use this term, but I think it looks "Sick"! Keep up the great work Ron!

You can say "sick" just don't call it "EPIC!"

Andrew

[rixtrix1]

Wow, Ron. You really have the 'eye' when it comes to making fenders!

[Yelcamino]

You can say "sick" just don't call it "EPIC!"

Andrew

How about, wait for it... LEGENDARY!

[wiedemab]

You can say "sick" just don't call it "EPIC!"

Andrew

I'm pretty - - -Stoked about it! ;)

I said that out loud as I typed it and I felt a bit queasy....

Car looks awesome!

[Ron S]

Thanks Bro,:headbang:

[zamora7]

Wow!! This car is AMAZING!! Can't believe all the work that has been done with no set backs. I also agree with everyone else that you completely nailed the look of it. Great job, looking forward to more progress.

[Ron S]

Got all of the welding done on the fenders, except the top panel. I'll fabricate the fender top tomorrow, weld it in Friday, and yehaa start making dust this weekend.

Was thinking about fabbing a pin style spindle for a C6 upright. Ordered a Nascar Grand National front spindle just to see its size and shape. Had no idea how big it was compared it to a Wilwood pro spindle. It seems like a packaging nightmare, but I think it is doable.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01067L-1.jpg

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[andrewb70]

Do you really need that monster axle in the front? I mean...those are designed for 200+mph for 500 miles. Surely you don't plan on doing that with the car. Why not just run the ZR1 hubs?

Andrew

[Ron S]

In the end I probably will Andrew, just looking at some options. Those ZR1 parts don't come cheap, and they really want you to change them semi regularly. Always looking for a custom alternative.

[Gil]

Hi Ron,
Amazing fab. skills as usual
Very impressive !
Gil

[Ron S]

Did get the fender tops made, and one side tacked before I ran out of mig wire. Still have to fab the fender edge(where it bolts on) and they are finally finished, the welding anyway. The mud slinging is a whole new chapter.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01070L-1.jpg

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[linkstar69]

Crazy fab work on the front fenders. Certainly going to have a nice coke bottle profile.

[Bob Glenn]

Can you machine a ring to go around the NASCAR spindle pin with a flange to bolt to the ZR-1 up right ( use bolts with nylock nuts from the hub side ) then drill and tap 2 or 3 3/8 bolt hole in the spindle pin from the back side and use a plate to keep the pin from coming out ? You could put a key way in the end of the pin to keep it from turning and it does not have to be a very long key ! The pin could be cooled and the ring a press fit and heated to make it tight ? Then almost every thing is replaceable with parts you can find and replace !

[Ron S]

My original thought was to machine a plug to close the hole in the upright which would incorporate the 3 bolt flange that would bolt in place. Then bore a hole in the center of it which I could press the pin into, and tig it in place on both sides. The problem is the pin is just too huge, with too much offset, throwing the scrub radius all crazy. I may get an Impala pin and see how bad it is. If its not going to be an improvement over what's currently available, there is no use in doing it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01064L-1.jpg

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Savage!!

[Ron S]

Got the fenders finish welded and ground, will start smearing mud tomorrow.

On the spindle, I started really thinking outside the box. Stopped at a buddy of mine's 4 wheel drive shop, dug through and found a 4x4 front spindle that looked like it would fit. My buddy Brian turned down the locating index to the Vette upright I.D. Stupid big, but if I made a hub to fit this, with the unibearing standoff, I think it would work.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01075L-1.jpg

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[Dan S.]

Brother, you won't be happy until their isn't a single bolt-on commercial part on this build. :)

[Ron S]

Torquedork, and I have been collaborating on what to do with my quarter panels, this what we have come up with. Reshape the rear window opening a bit, and install an eyebrow over the wheel opening. Love the way he was able to C14 wheels in gold on the thing, the dude is a real artist with a computer. What do you think?

Yeah Dan, you know I have brain damage.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/afterL-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/rons20red20amxL-1.jpg

[WILWAXU]

Looks good in Pink :D

[Torquedork]

Looks good in Pink :D

The bear of it is, every computer monitor is different. I tweak it on one computer and move it to another and it looks different. Ron is now talking about Red, Is this Better????

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/X8A2_zps84adafe7.jpg.html)

[andrewb70]

....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01074L-1.jpg

Ron,

I am no engineer, but I am worried about this spindle modification. The ZR1 hubs are very tidy and the bearings actually ride inside the spindle. What you are proposing will place the bearings much further out and stress the spindle in a way that it was never designed for. The forces acting on the spindle will now have a much longer lever. A spindle and hub are critical components and it would suck to have a catastrophic failure. At a minimum, you should consult an engineer about this. Just my 2 cents...

Andrew

[Ron S]

Andrew, I'm just playing, trying to keep my self sane while doing body work. In the end I'll probably run the ZR1 stuff. Have talked to several engineers about this, its very deceiving how this stuff is made. If you think about a unibearing, all the bearing load is on one side of the wheel mount surface, and the bearings are only about 1/4" apart. With the old school bearing arrangement the bearings are spread several inches apart, one on each side of the wheel mount surface. It doesn't take an engineer to see that is a much stronger arrangement. It would put increased load on the aluminum upright though.

On a side note, I got the one side portion of the fender roughed in.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01082L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/DSC01080L-1.jpg

[Torquedork]

Sane??? Sane??? But it's so fun. Sanding, sanding and more sanding, Primer, blocking, more primer, blocking, Yada Yada Yada. LOL Have Fun Ron.

[Gojeep]

Love the look of the idea for rear quarter as it ties in with the front nicely. :)

[Ant]

I really would love to see that body line from the humpster quarter make it onto your car!
Looks killer, been watching your build for a long while!

[FlyDoc]

I like the use of the 4x4 spindle, form the photos the area that goes into the vet upright looks like it has more surface area then the stock vet bearing, I would want to see where the wheel flange is in comparison to stock vet, before I would be able to say what the force deference would be.

[Torquedork]

Ya know you'd think with such "Minimal" modifications from stock, you would think Ron would be done by now. LOL. Get crackin'.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/X7C_zps20c22947-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/X7C_zps20c22947.jpg.html)

[RS_Customs]

Sane??
Ha, your not sane! but we still like you and your crazy projects!! Car is looking great!

Robert

[Torquedork]

Sane??
Ha, your not sane! but we still like you and your crazy projects!! Car is looking great!

Robert

Maybe that's why Ron calls it..... AMX Peri"Mental" LOL

Ron, Here' more of a side view of the change.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/AMXEXP5B_zpsead4ce68-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/AMXEXP5B_zpsead4ce68.jpg.html)

[Mike Holleman]

Ron, The lines you have here are starting to look modern. I noticed from a shot awhile back how much the front of the car looked like some of the current model cars. Don't get me wrong, I like it! The Red example could be a 2015 car. New Retro.
Torquedork, and I have been collaborating on what to do with my quarter panels, this what we have come up with. Reshape the rear window opening a bit, and install an eyebrow over the wheel opening. Love the way he was able to C14 wheels in gold on the thing, the dude is a real artist with a computer. What do you think?

Yeah Dan, you know I have brain damage.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/afterL-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/rons20red20amxL-1.jpg

[Ron S]

The driving force on the front was the 335's. It was either Mustang flares which I've already done, or something a little different. I've tried to keep the AMX flavor, and still meet the wheelbase/width requirements of the car. I purposely didn't go with a modern front bumper, but did attach the bumper to the fender which is kind of modern. Like everything I do you'll like it, or really, really HATE it. LOL

[Yelcamino]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/04/X7C_zps20c22947-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/X7C_zps20c22947.jpg.html)


The driving force on the front was the 335's. It was either Mustang flares which I've already done, or something a little different. I've tried to keep the AMX flavor, and still meet the wheelbase/width requirements of the car. I purposely didn't go with a modern front bumper, but did attach the bumper to the fender which is kind of modern. Like everything I do you'll like it, or really, really HATE it. LOL

Ron, seeing a stock AMX right next to yours, it's truly impressive how you transformed your vision into reality! Totally awesome, or as I said before... Legendary!

[bishir]

Ron, The lines you have here are starting to look modern. I noticed from a shot awhile back how much the front of the car looked like some of the current model cars. Don't get me wrong, I like it! The Red example could be a 2015 car. New Retro.

I had the same thoughts! If AMX were to make a comeback your car could be the modern interpretation/ concept vehicle.

[Ron S]

ONE DOWN, ONE TO GO!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01084L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01083L-1.jpg

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Been ahwile since I have checked in but damn you have made some progress...

[CadillacMazerolle]

ive been lurking in this thread since the beginning. Very wild ride.

I support this message.

[Ron S]

When you're doing something as miserable as smearing mud and sanding, its hard to stay on task. You'll take your motivation where you can get it. Funny how big tars, especially on the front keep me trudging through.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01086L-1.jpg

[HectorM52]

I like a guy with a big meat in the front.

Wait a minute...

...either way, keep up the good work. :)

[Ron S]

Torquedork was at it again, from stock to C14's on an Xperimental. I'm hoping I can do his photoshop justice.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/ron1a_zpsb223517bL-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/ron3_zps1d58c250L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

Coolest one yet.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/ron5_zpsad82fb76L-1.jpg

[Torquedork]

This is the stock image I tweaked.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/ron4a_zps7e711b09-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron4a_zps7e711b09.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/ron5_zpsad82fb76-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron5_zpsad82fb76.jpg.html)

[srh3trinity]

No offense to any retired AMX designers kicking around here, but Ron and Torquedork have created a much better looking version.

[Compaan-Designs]

Wow, that looks awesome! It will be one of the more beautiful AMX's out there.

[Norm Peterson]

How difficult would it be to get the leading end of the crease over the rear wheel to follow the bottom of the quarter window instead of dropping away from it as you move forward? I can picture this, but there's no way I could ever draw it electronically.


Norm

[Torquedork]

How difficult would it be to get the leading end of the crease over the rear wheel to follow the bottom of the quarter window instead of dropping away from it as you move forward? I can picture this, but there's no way I could ever draw it electronically.


Norm

Here’s my take on this and much depends on how far Ron is willing to curve the bottom of the quarter window up. It could be done if you were making a cut in the quarter and building the line from scratch. Ron told me he got some quarter sections from a ’73 Javelin and those accent lines have a sharper turn down at the front and are much longer than the 2 seater car. If he’s using them, he has to consider and make sure the arc of the ’73 accent is nicely cenered over the rear wheel. His only other option is to try and fade away the accent line a little quicker at the front.

You could change the arc like this if building from scratch.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/ron7a4_zps29f391ce-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron7a4_zps29f391ce.jpg.html)

As you can see, the later style AMX’s and Javelins were longer and the turn down has an increasing angle at the front. This is the image I used to blend into the 2 seater car by ghosting it in.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/3a_zpsd50bff96-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/3a_zpsd50bff96.jpg.html)

[Norm Peterson]

I get it now, I just wasn't particularly aware that the quarters had already been sourced. Although with what it seems Ron can do with metal I'm still not inclined to think it'd be impossible for him. Time consuming, probably.


Norm

[Torquedork]

I get it now, I just wasn't particularly aware that the quarters had already been sourced. Although with what it seems Ron can do with metal I'm still not inclined to think it'd be impossible for him. Time consuming, probably.


Norm

Here's how it looks laying a long '73 panel over a 2 seater panel. Here to balance the two lines near the 1/4 window, I actually had to tilt the '73 1/4 hump slightly (See second photo) as I positioned it at 50% over the 2 seater panel. Even with that, Ron will have to figure out how to fade it away properly at the front AND at the back since his car uses a 1/4 extension and the '73 does not.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron9_zpsfa02355c.jpg.html)

[Ron S]

The rendering that Torque is playing with is awesome in my opinion. Unfortunately he can only do so much with the computer, the actual car will lay out slightly different. The lines your talking about Norm will have to be parallel to look right.

There is a lot that goes into body mods that are this severe. To produce that eyebrow from scratch would take a long time. I'd have to english wheel curve in the panel, machine a set of dies for my bead roller to have the correct profile, roll the brow, shrink all that material along that edge. English wheel the other half of the panel, tig the two together. Although doable, I would have months on each quarter. It was easier to find a donor, and cut them off. There will still be plenty of english wheel thumb smashing, and plenty of welding, but I figure a week of nights and weekends, for the first, a couple of days on the second.

Its been cool watching Torque play with the lines on this car, but in the end it comes down what can be done with the metal. While I'm typing this I'm looking out the window at the car pushed out in my driveway. Funny how different the car is then the rendering that is here. Wheelwells are way higher to clear the 335's at full lock, I raked the nose down about 1.5" to try and correct the way the cars always look like they are driving up hill. The way I look at it AMC did the hard work, all I'm doing is a little plastic surgery. A nose job, some lipo, and some double D's. LOL Its all an Xperiment, we'll see.

[Torquedork]

Played with it a bit more cleaning it up and raising the rear wheel well slightly. Also used a slightly different '71 AMX 1/4 panel photo to ghost the accent line in. Really breaks up the 1/4 panel up nicely IMHO.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/ron9b_zps239aa37e-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron9b_zps239aa37e.jpg.html)

Ron mentioned Red so gave it an Earl Sheib paint job. LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron9c_zps2eced6d8.jpg.html)

[Gil]

Ron, stop playing Pshop, go work on the car... :angel:
Front tires are really :
95357
Very nice work as usual
Gil

[Ron S]

Everything is kind of roughed in, and I do mean roughed in. Now I need to fit it to the car, and clean up the edges. The nose still looks kind of long to me, even after cutting 3" off of it. Front end definitely shows off the need for the quarter panel mods. Man I hate body work!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01091L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01089L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01092L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01098L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01097L-1.jpg

[syborg tt]

It's almost like you need to exaggerate the rear quarter hump. Kinda bump it out and up maybe ???

So what color are you going to paint this beast ?

[Ron S]

It will be pretty exaggerated, the rear still gets a 3/4" more width on each side.

I have no idea on the color, have been kicking a few things around.

[syborg tt]

It will be pretty exaggerated, the rear still gets a 3/4" more width on each side.

I have no idea on the color, have been kicking a few things around.

Are you cutting the sheet metal or adding flares ?

[Ron S]

It will be an eyebrow like the newer Javelins, with a bulbous flare like the front has.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/red20amxL-1.jpg

[Torquedork]

Ron,

Seems to me the nose still looks long especially with a front ¾ photo angle is because how much you moved the rear wheels back. In the side shot it doesn’t look long. I’ll try and work with the side shot. Thanks for getting that for me.

Colors

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/ron9d_zpsb9ca7676.jpg.html)

[Torquedork]

Everything is kind of roughed in, and I do mean roughed in. Now I need to fit it to the car, and clean up the edges. The nose still looks kind of long to me, even after cutting 3" off of it. Front end definitely shows off the need for the quarter panel mods. Man I hate body work!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01092L-1.jpg



Ok Ron, Took the first shot at it.

Here’s the ’73 quarter panel I worked with

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/RONs6_zpsde0178e6.jpg.html)

You can see here how I sized matched the doors and ghosted it in

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/RONs4A_zpsbab788dc.jpg.html)

I adjusted and tilted the accent line to get this. Notice the ghosted ’73 door is moved forward and tilted to set the accent after raising the lower quarter window line like you plan. Problem you may face is matching the curve of the 1/4 panels once you set the accent line but it depends how much of the other panel you use.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/RONs5D_zps62df9115.jpg.html)

[Gojeep]

Thanks for showing how you go about the photo alterations.

[I_make_oil]

Looking good. I like the green color.

[linkstar69]

definitely one of the coolest cars on here, great work as always ron

[Torquedork]

I think I got pretty close adapting your recent side shot to the earlier clean image I did to put things in perspective.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/rons7a_zpsea966d99-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/rons7a_zpsea966d99.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/rons7_zpsd702b7aa-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/rons7_zpsd702b7aa.jpg.html)

[syborg tt]

Very nice and I love the color


I think I got pretty close adapting your recent side shot to the earlier clean image I did to put things in perspective.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/rons7a_zpsea966d99-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/rons7a_zpsea966d99.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/rons7_zpsd702b7aa-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/rons7_zpsd702b7aa.jpg.html)

[Torquedork]

Ok Ron,

Not sure if i can get much closer than this. Sort of in Viper green you mentioned.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/RONs8D_zps371f170b.jpg.html)

Since I hear your front splitter is going to be black, have you ever giving thought to making a thin rocker molding just below the door and then black below that. Think it would sure thin the car out a lot.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/RONs8C3_zpse5feccb8.jpg.html)

[Ron S]

Just because I love body work so much, I decided to make the front bumper, grill, and headlights as one piece. Figured if I was going to make the bumper out of fiberglass, I might as well it an assembly. Should clean the front of the car up, and make it easier to put together. Besides the grills for these cars go for $650, I will just run the stainless mesh like I have in the Mustang. Got the nose pieces assembled, will make the grill out of sheet metal tomorrow.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01102L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01103L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01104L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01105L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01106L-1.jpg

[David Sloan]

sweet nice an clean,

[Ron S]

Hey David, hope all is well. This car is moving really slow, I need a dead line like Peach State.LOL Wire it up in your parking lot like the Mustang. Good to hear from you. Ron

[David Sloan]

Hey David, hope all is well. This car is moving really slow, I need a dead line like Peach State.LOL Wire it up in your parking lot like the Mustang. Good to hear from you. Ron

Thanks Ron
All is well, I know about slow. and this project is not it, mine on the other hand is still barely moving. Man this car is off the chain!!
The Peach State is coming up soon, with Bill ,Brain ,its going to be at Atl. motor speedway. I will be there helping out a little.

I would love to do it again, just dont have the funds to pull it off. LOL!! (( But Jeff an i are still talking about reviving it))
I hope we can all get together soon it would be good to see you an Payton and all the rest of the guys that came in for that event.

[Ron S]

How to make a AMX grill for about 4 bucks: First get a bunch of scrap metal, Second weld it together. Done.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01107L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01108L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01110L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01113L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01116L-1.jpg

[67SSDan]

I will never look at an AMX the same way again. You've GOT to go with some sort of red, white, and blue color scheme.

Have to say... I still dig the 5 spoke wheels better.

Dan

[IrishBoxer92]

this thread makes me want to take a welding course at the community college near me so i can learn to do this kind of stuff, great job man!

[Torquedork]

Ron,

I know you said you’re not a fan of rear spoilers but this car NEEDS one. That being said, I hate 2 seater AMX morons that put Javelin spoilers on their AMX’s which makes them look even longer in back. But you have pushed the rear wheels back to the point where it will look good on your car and the look of the car will balance at any angle with the shorter front.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/NEW4a_zps30ed4b2b-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/NEW4a_zps30ed4b2b.jpg.html)

Look at where he’s taken this car from stock.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/RONs9D_zpsf765d9bb-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/RONs9D_zpsf765d9bb.jpg.html)

¾ view with ¼ changes and a rear spoiler

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/NEW5B_zpsad9ba7d0-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/NEW5B_zpsad9ba7d0.jpg.html)

[dangina]

^I like the look of that! ducktail, DUCKTAIL!

[Torquedork]

^I like the look of that! ducktail, DUCKTAIL!

The spoiler is from a 1970 Javelin and would be a perfect fit. The spoilers on the later hump cars were similar but shaped differently at the corners.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/NEW6_zpsccc05c10-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/NEW6_zpsccc05c10.jpg.html)

[David Sloan]

I have to agree it needs a rear spoiler.
The car just does not look good with out it, plus the down force from it at speed will be a big help!

[Mike Holleman]

Why not a wing? Your not exactly building a street car here. A wing set in neutral still adds approx. one thousand pounds of down force at 150 mph. Of course you will have to get serious with a front air dam design to keep it balanced. You are building an amazing car Ron. But what is the ultimate goal? I know you well enough to know this thing is not gonna sit at a car show.

[Ron S]

You sound like Payton, Mike. He calls me everyday, and asks if I've ordered my wing yet.LOL

I'm going to wait til I get the quarters done, to see what this thing needs. The spoiler is growing on me, but a wing works way better. Car shows are suppose to be 150 MPH aren't they? That's where you SHOW me what your car can do, and I SHOW you what mine can do.

[67SSDan]

I gotta say, that tail the dude put on in Photoshop looks pretty dang good. I hadn't even considered it needing one until I saw that... looks awesome!

Dan

[Torquedork]

Here’s one where I tried to get some paint on it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/New5e6d_zps72a081c6-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/New5e6d_zps72a081c6.jpg.html)

Now when talking about aero, another thing to consider is actually the grille. When Penske and Donohue took over the AMC Trans Am team, they insisted on a flush grille for the car. So AMC had to make one for the factory AMX’s to eliminate the deep recessed grille.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/BBW2a_zpsa61da7b3-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/BBW2a_zpsa61da7b3.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/screen_zpsb39fc16d-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/screen_zpsb39fc16d.jpg.html)

Both the front and rear factory spoilers were designed by Mark Donohue.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/spoiler_zps3ab7298b-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/spoiler_zps3ab7298b.jpg.html)

A,K.A. The "Dude" LOL

[Mike Holleman]

I know when you start out with an underslung chassis you are not building a street car. A logical direction is toward a quick ass track car. In my last NASA event at VIR, I had two cars in my run group that ran sub 2 min. laps. Both had wings and front aero work and lot's of HP. I see your car in this mix. Now can you drive it? I see your car in the UTCC. Like the way Payton thinks!

You sound like Payton, Mike. He calls me everyday, and asks if I've ordered my wing yet.LOL

I'm going to wait til I get the quarters done, to see what this thing needs. The spoiler is growing on me, but a wing works way better. Car shows are suppose to be 150 MPH aren't they? That's where you SHOW me what your car can do, and I SHOW you what mine can do.

[Ron S]

Now can you drive it?


Probably not, but its never stopped me before.LOL

Really interested in driving something different, just to see how it feels, and handles. 335's on all 4 corners seems like it has to work on paper, but we'll see.

[Mike Holleman]

Any idea what it will weigh? 335's will help stop and turn. I get smoked by 2400 lb. cars with 245's everywhere but the straights. It is all relevant. It will be a blast to drive.
Probably not, but its never stopped me before.LOL

Really interested in driving something different, just to see how it feels, and handles. 335's on all 4 corners seems like it has to work on paper, but we'll see.

[Ron S]

In the beginning Mike, I was so weight conscious, and then somebody kinda got crazy with the tubing bender. In the end I think it will be over 3000lbs.. The car will have full interior, heat etc.. I've been kicking around one day doing One Lap, this year my buddy Frank and I are doing Drag Week in Oklahoma in September. Been busy as hell, hope life slows down soon.

[67SSDan]

A,K.A. The "Dude" LOL

Heh, sorry. I was clearly being too lazy to scroll up to look for your name.

[Mike Holleman]

Drag week? That will be fun. Give K. Turk my best. Hell, my Chump Car 97 Firebird will weigh in above that number and it's a V6. One lap is a bucket list for me. Right now I'm deep into the Chump Car build. Almost done but will most likely not race until the VIR 24 hour in Aug. Come down and be a driver. Gonna take at least 6 to do a 24 hr race.
In the beginning Mike, I was so weight conscious, and then somebody kinda got crazy with the tubing bender. In the end I think it will be over 3000lbs.. The car will have full interior, heat etc.. I've been kicking around one day doing One Lap, this year my buddy Frank and I are doing Drag Week in Oklahoma in September. Been busy as hell, hope life slows down soon.

[Ron S]

Last pic of the front end, this is pretty much it, down to just priming and blocking. The first pic is just for contrast old to new. Cleans it up a bit I think.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/ebay39678L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01128L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01127L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01126L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01125L-1.jpg

[Mike Holleman]

Looks real good! The brand new 2015 AMC AMX.
Last pic of the front end, this is pretty much it, down to just priming and blocking. The first pic is just for contrast old to new. Cleans it up a bit I think.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/ebay39678L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01128L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01127L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01126L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01125L-1.jpg

[Yelcamino]

Ron, your version makes the original look kinda bland. Nicely done!

[Torquedork]

Last pic of the front end, this is pretty much it, down to just priming and blocking. The first pic is just for contrast old to new. Cleans it up a bit I think.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01125L-1.jpg

Looking good Ron. Block it and get to work on the quarters! LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/newron_zps42843757-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/newron_zps42843757.jpg.html)

[Ron S]

Just in case anyone wanted to see the plug just before it gets a mold pulled off of it. Still needs a couple prime and sands, but its made. Get yourself some a dat!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01133L-1.jpg

[GM_muscle]

car looks killer but have the thought about door handle change? something more round? to go with the body lines.

[Torquedork]

So Ron.... Where the Hell Are You???? Stuck on the 1/4 panels????

[Ron S]

Been working on my Mustang getting it ready for Motorstate. Did pick up the nose mold, need to clean it up, and make the fins for the area that bolts it to the fender. The fiberglass guy said it took a full week to get the mold off of my plug, pretty much destroyed the plug doing so.

The fiberglass guy is the only guy I know busier then me, he is running around like a one armed paper hanger. So I decided to make the rails on the nose mold myself, to speed up the process. The parts will come fast out of the mold he promises, so I'll get the mold back Monday or Tuesday.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/DSC01148L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/DSC01146L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

Got the mold fins made and powder coated orange, turned out pretty good. Hope to get them back to the fiberglass guy today, so the parts can be made.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/DSC01157L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/DSC01156L-1.jpg

[Evoix]

Looks real good! The brand new 2015 AMC AMX.

If Chrysler/jeep /whoever still owns the AMCname they Should consider it! They should hire Ron to be the whole design department.

[Torquedork]

Any Updates Ron????

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/z9d_zpse0b88e1c-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/Reviews/z9d_zpse0b88e1c.jpg.html)

[Ron S]

Have been busy racing and breaking my Mustang, but I did get some fiberglass nose parts. The detail on these glass parts is awesome.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/20140819_150001L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/20140819_150026L-1.jpg

[Dan S.]

Did you bend it, or just blow it up?

I was watching the Motor State/Gingerman early rounds, and you were mighty quick.

[Ron S]

Exploded a clutch in Michigan and still squeaked out a 3rd on the road course. Took 2nd at the Ohio Muscle Car Challenge over this past weekend. Really fun events, unfortunately keeping me away from working on this car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/pittsL-1.jpg

[Dan S.]

That's a relief.

Saw your times stop appearing at Motor State, and was worried you might have bent it up.

Congratulations on your OMCC results.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/KevinHartsLongDeadStareReactionGif-1.gif

[Ron S]

Look twins, fit these to the fenders and get the molds done on them.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/20140923_173748L-1.jpg

[csouth]

Nice pieces... Can't wait to see this done. I definitely love the creativity of your builds....

[dangina]

Just in case anyone wanted to see the plug just before it gets a mold pulled off of it. Still needs a couple prime and sands, but its made. Get yourself some a dat!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01133L-1.jpg

out of curiosity, how did you make the plug? the end result looks awesome!

[Ron S]

Built it out of steel a piece at a time.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01107L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/09/DSC01109L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/05/DSC01113L-1.jpg

[driveit]

Amazing work. Can't wait to see more!

[Dalamar]

Ron, i love what you're doing with the car!
Great wheel, it really makes the car stand out.
Props and thanks for the motivation :)

[Whopper]

Removed the distraction.

[Motown 454]

Beautiful Job Ron. This car is smoking hot!

[shortrack]

Exploded a clutch in Michigan and still squeaked out a 3rd on the road course. Took 2nd at the Ohio Muscle Car Challenge over this past weekend. Really fun events, unfortunately keeping me away from working on this car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/08/pittsL-1.jpg

2nd place with that archaic truck arm rear susp? impossible lol

[Ron S]

All I've ever driven on a road course has been this truck arm setup. Finch drove the car once and didn't care for how it worked, Kyle autocrossed it once and said it pushed too much (which it does). Can't wait to get this car done just to try something else, don't know if it will be better or worse, but i'll let you know.

[linkstar69]

All I've ever driven on a road course has been this truck arm setup. Finch drove the car once and didn't care for how it worked, Kyle autocrossed it once and said it pushed too much (which it does). Can't wait to get this car done just to try something else, don't know if it will be better or worse, but i'll let you know.
Do you think those objections could be addressed through fine tuning or do you feel it was it the inherent characteristics of that suspension design they didn't like?

[Ron S]

I think it was a little of both. I have taken some time to fine tune on the car which made it light years better then it was. I do think the truck arm design has a tendency to push, due to the way the arms drive the power from the center of the car. Most other designs, leaf springs, 4 link, 3 link, even my torque arm on this AMC drive the car from just in front of the rear tires. The torque arm power pulls up and down on the center, but it drives from the links just in front of the rear tires. I guess we will see how it works out, if I ever get a chance to work on this car again.

[shortrack]

Does the car have an adjustable track bar? If my car was tight I would go down a round or two on the track bar to loosen it up.

In the pic it looks like the end of the track bar and and the shock mount are connected but they arn't lol theyre about an inch apart

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/ns012-1.jpg (http://s962.photobucket.com/user/shortrack/media/ns012.jpg.html)

[Ron S]

Mine has massive adjustability. Found that the Nascar stuff is designed with the panhard bar way below the rear axle centerline, which is great for 200mph high banks of Daytona. Not so great for short track road courses, and autocrosses. What I found was that those mounts actually had to be cut off the truck arms and frame and moved up a bit to get the car to work right. Car seemed to like just slightly below axle centerline which was not obtainable with the used Nascar stuff I had. Once I got the adjustments close the car behaved much, much better.

[RMMiller]

Any progress? Saw this posted on Facebook and thought of your build.

112789

[sdg0080]

The world wants to know what happened to this build... :)

[Godbolt]

+1 !

[RMMiller]

From a post in his Mustang thread on 3/19/15;




I was really close to burn out on the other car, so I stepped away for a while. Been working on some other funky projects which seemed much less stressful that are close to being completed. Once they are done I feel I can hit the AMX hard and stay on it until completion. I will keep you posted.

[Ron S]

The burnout thing was about right. Didn't stop me from building on some other stuff that wasn't Pro Touring, but I think I'm back in the groove. Car is in the working bay of the garage, jacked up and leveled, awaiting my direction. Have spent several days sitting in a chair, drinking more then one cold one, trying to remember where I left off. I now have a game plan, and should be hitting it hard soon.

[Martin71RS]

Good to see you're getting back into it Ron! :-)

[sdg0080]

Glad to see it being brought back. I can relate to getting tired of working on something.

[Godbolt]

The burnout thing was about right. Didn't stop me from building on some other stuff that wasn't Pro Touring, but I think I'm back in the groove. Car is in the working bay of the garage, jacked up and leveled, awaiting my direction. Have spent several days sitting in a chair, drinking more then one cold one, trying to remember where I left off. I now have a game plan, and should be hitting it hard soon.

Excellent. Looking forward to it. The work to date is amazing and it is most definitely a project worth finishing.

[Ron S]

Funny Godbolt, I did Drag Week last year with a bunch of crazy Aussies from Brisbane. Great group of guys, a lot of 12 oz curls took place that week. They explained how hard it is to tag highly modified cars in Australia, and how the Police regularly impound such rides. That would really make me want to get organized with a lot of the other guys in the hobby, to change those laws. My brother inlaw just retired to somewhere on the Gold Coast close to Brisbane. He keeps asking my wife and I to visit, maybe one of these days we will.

[Godbolt]

Make sure you do and look me up if you visit. Can recommend some places and things to do.

The laws here are stupid as regards modified cars. The inconsistencies as to what is deemed street legal are ridiculous and have little to do with actual safety. There is always a push on but the bureaucracy is pretty entrenched. The popular consensus is that we are "hoons" rather than vehicle enthusiasts. In reality we invest a lot of time, energy, money and passion into our interest. This means $ and jobs.

Curiously the best organised are a group that got special classification for "street rods" which means if you have a pre-1949 frame you can stuff a supercharged big block or just about anything in, do all sorts of modifications and be road legal in a vehicle that otherwise is down right unsafe compared to mine. Crazy,but hey, that's the law.

Great job on your mustang and the amx. Truly inspiring stuff.

[Ant]

Progress?? :)

[chunger]

@javelin66 - so, you're looking to us to fund your project?

And you can't even start you're own thread?

[Godbolt]

Can the mods remove this? Looks like he posted the same fund me crap in various places.

[andrewb70]

@javelin66 - so, you're looking to us to fund your project?

And you can't even start you're own thread?

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/87615-not-javelin-you

Andrew

[chunger]

Andrew,

Yea, I saw that later too.

But, my point is, don't spam other threads looking for money. Keep the spam in your own thread where I can ignore it.

[andrewb70]

Andrew,

Yea, I saw that later too.

But, my point is, don't spam other threads looking for money. Keep the spam in your own thread where I can ignore it.

Agreed, which is why I deleted his post.

Andrew

[Ron S]

After a couple of year hiatus, I'm finally getting back on this car. Working with Ron Sutton on a different suspension design, the torque arm I designed in the car he feels would be great for autocross, but not so great on the road course. He designed a decoupled 3 link for the rear, which I have just begun to fabricate. Trying to fit these mounts in my already busy chassis was a lot more difficult then I thought. Funny I ended up not having to move one bar, at least not so far.

I will leave the torque arm mounts in place and try both designs to see the difference. Hoping to stay the course and get this thing done.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/01/20160124_194447L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/01/20160127_194308L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/01/20160124_194616L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/01/20160128_182207L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/01/20160129_160523L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/01/20160130_155509L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/01/20160130_155157L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/01/20160129_155714L-1.jpg

[Norm Peterson]

A decoupled 3-link is certainly a unique choice for a street-drivable car, though this build of yours still has a fairly short wheelbase.

I assume that you'll be triangulating where that sort-of-U-shaped bar attaches, as the harness bar isn't going to be very rigid in bending and the 3rd link loads will be significant.


Norm

[Ron S]

No worries Norm, I'm not done, this thing is so over built, I'm pretty sure it won't fall off. Wheelbase ended up at 105ish. Cool part is, I can run it in torque arm mode if I'm going to do alot of street driving, change from one design to the other is less then 30 minutes.

[813Demon340]

Glad to see you're back at it. Sometimes its best to walk away from things for a bit to get clarity and focus. Your build is some great inspiration for this AMX owner!

[Ron S]

Started with the front changes, control arms will be getting moved up an inch and forward .625. Never really liked the LCA mounts on this clip, so I cut old mounts off, and started making new ones. Still have to design and build the front mounts, but I'm getting there.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/DSC00154L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160206_182754L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160207_163447L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160207_171453L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160212_173137L-1.jpg

[preston]

>A decoupled 3-link is certainly a unique choice for a street-drivable car,

Norm any other comments on using a decoupled 3 link on a "street car". I think I read Ron Sutton say it would begin binding at 2+" of travel, and I would think it might bang and crash around a bit. I know it won't bother Ron Schwarz but I'm curious if you have ever ridden/driven in a car with a decoupled 3 link ?

Great work Ron, getting Sutton's input must be invaluable. I intend to go that way myself, I totally missed all his posts until recently been reading them like a book.

[Norm Peterson]

No direct experience, but I think that transitioning the loads back and forth between the acceleration link and the brake link is where the most time and experimentation will occur. Much like it was with Unbalanced Engineering's decoupled torque arm a decade ago, which I know was discussed over at C-C.com. IIRC there was at least one person over on FRRAX.com (forget who it was, now) working with that one.

Kinematically it's over-constrained (that 'bind' thing), but with the right compliances it can be made to work at least over some range of suspension travel. I know I've seen 'sprung' links used in circle track racing. Not sure if anybody has ever tried damping those but doing so might allow the use of softer link springs (less bind) or some sort of dual-rate arrangement where the soft rate is mainly there to accommodate bump travel.


Norm

[Eric Howell]

I'm so happy to see you are back at this Ron! Any plans to add any type of adjustment to the lower mounts?

[Ron S]

Funny Preston, I will be the first to admit that I don't know what I'm doing on suspension design. I've always copied a factory design, figuring no one had more money to spend then GM on design R&D. Knowing what roll center, ackerman, and bump steer are, means nothing without knowing how to apply them with something that works. I do think some of us have a good brain, for what work well, and will be strong when it comes to chassis design. Knowing precisely where on the chassis to weld those parts, (when it comes to link mounts), probably should be left to the pro's.

On the 3 link, their is no question in my mind, that the decoupled 3 link is the most tunable rear suspension design available. Being able to tune both acceleration , and deceleration is invaluable. Whether I'm skilled enough to tune it properly is another question, I'm looking forward to the challenge.

Ron Sutton likes two different designs when it comes to the decoupled 3 link. One involved a bumper for accel, and a second link and bumper for decel. The second design use a spring for accel, and a shock absorber with bump stops for the decel. I haven't desided which I will run yet, I designed my brackets etc. so I can run either. And of course the torque arm mounts are still in the car, so I always have that option if I'm going to do a lot of street driving, only 3 bolts to install that big bitch.

I did double up where the control arms mount to the brackets, one for strength, although I think the 3/16" bracket is more then enough. Two: to make assembly easier, trying to slide the control arm between those two tight brackets would have been a pain, sliding them on the little circles will call for less curse words.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160213_105000L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

No Eric, I'm going to trust in my suspension designer, all the adjustability is on the uppers in this car. Thought about doing slugs, but decided I'm just going to give the Mr. Sutton what he wants.

[Ron S]

Finishing up the rear mounts, Dailey dry sump allows me to run a tie bar across the two mounts, made it removable just in case I don't always have that engine. The bad part about the Dailey system is the oil pump hit the engine mount badly, so I had to cut it off of the frame. Next on the list is building a new passenger side mount, and engine bracket. I have a game plan for the fronts, we will see if it has the cool fact or not.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160214_142839L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160214_161500L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160214_161441L-1.jpg

[Eric Howell]

Can't go wrong with Mr. Sutton. When it's my turn I am going the same route. I'm stuck using the C5/6 knuckles because I want AWD for some reason. Kinda shame to watch all these front ends get cut up or scrapped.

Anyway, this is my favorite build on the whole internets. Not much for the bolt on or what's cool now deal. Tons of inspiration in this thread. Thank you.

[Ron S]

Motor set back in with dry sump pan and pump. Absolutely no room for a motor mount on the passenger side. I want it to be easy to get the motor in and out, Greg suggested a motor plate, but I feel like I'm to far along. I got an idea but we'll see how it works out. The adapter I made to fit the mismatched pan and pump worked out pretty good.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20151112_103446L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20151112_103431L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160215_180831L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160215_180635L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

Did figure a way to sneak a motor mount between the headers and dry sump pump. Did it opposite the drivers side, put bushing on motor bracket rather then frame. Hangs way below dry sump pan, so bolts are easy to get out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160216_204218L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

Another couple brackets made, only 100 more to go. Proud of the center bracket that doubles as a control arm and a motor mount bracket. Now I get to start on the front of the control arms, yippee. Thanks, Ron Sutton LOL


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160217_162814L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160217_162748L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160217_162838L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/20160217_162820L-1.jpg

[Torquedork]

Glad to see you back at it Ron. Figured out what you are going to do with the quarter panels?

[Ron S]

I will do what we discussed earlier, Humpster eyebrow with shortened window opening. I know your dying for me to get on that, unfortunately the suspension comes first, then I have to finish the front fenders for the new wheelbase change, and get them off to have the molds made. Then I'll get on the quarters, can't wait.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/red20amx-1.jpg

[Zanie]

Good to see you back on such an awesome project!

[Ron Sutton]

Hey Everyone ... those of you posting & those of you reading along ...

I figured I'd jump on here real quick and clear up some things on the Decoupled 3-Link. I describe them as the most tunable, highest grip rear suspension linkage available for solid axle race cars.

Race cars. :)

I'll get the street usage thing out of the way first, then discuss why Decoupled 3-Links work so well. I don't think of a Decoupled 3-Link as a street car suspension. It can be driven on the street ... just like race cars are driven on the street. But if someone was building a "driver" or what I think of a typical "Pro Touring" car they plan to drive primarily on the street ... and rarely or occasionally run autocross or track days ... I would not suggest a decoupled 3-link. The issue would be poor ride quality. On smooth roads, the ride quality will be fine. On typical bumpy roads the ride would be noticeably harsher. Hitting big potholes ... or tall speed bumps at speed ... would be the worst ... because the suspension can not travel straight up or down very far .. with low/no throttle. It doesn't go into a bind per se. It's just the spring rate from the bushings (2 red ones in this photo) in the Decel system goes up exponentially when the both tires push straight up equally when off throttle. On throttle ... it can move up & down freely ... because the Accel bushings (blue in this photo) are compressed ... and the Decel bushings (red) are not loaded at all.

124129

What the decoupled system allows ... is for the rear end to articulate plenty within the chassis. So if a car with a Decoupled 3-Link drives on a normal street with occasional bumps ... each side can absorb the bumps it hits pretty much like any other suspension. If the bump is huge ... and hit at speed ... the compression amount would be great enough to get into the higher spring rate in the Accel/Decel system. So it would be more harsh than a other rear suspension styles. To summarize ... a Decoupled 3-Link rides fine on smooth roads, feels rougher on rough roads & would be very harsh driven over large potholes or speed bumps at speed.

So again, I would NOT recommend a Decoupled 3-Link for anyone building a "driver" or typical "Pro Touring" car they plan to drive primarily on the street. But Ron Schwarz is not building a cruiser. Neither are all my other clients that have chosen to go the Decoupled 3-Link route. I would call them "Very Mean Street Legal" cars or "Race Cars with License Plates." I suspect they WILL drive them on the street ... to the track or event they're going to. But each learned about the possible harshness ... as well as the advantages of the Decoupled 3-Link ... before choosing them.

Now if they want to drive them on the street & be comfortable ... the car can quickly be converted away from Decoupled 3-Links. With 3-bolts, they can replace the the Accel/Decel system with a regular top link. Then it will ride like any 3-link, 4-link, torque-arm car. In Ron Schwarz' case, he is also keeping the Torque Arm mounts, so he can compare them. I can't wait for that. :)

The reasons to go to a Decoupled 3-Link in these cars ... as the PT genre evolves more & more toward race car technology ... is the superior track performance. If a person can tolerate the car riding rougher to be bad ass on track ... it is worthy of considering. or if they're ok making the switch I mentioned ... with 3-bolts make it a normal 3-link ... and viola ... normal street ride. Before I go into the advantages of the Decoupled 3-Link ... it's important to understand what parts of the rear suspension affects the handling in the different parts of the corner.

Let's break driving the corner down into the 3 parts:
1. Corner entry ... where the driver is braking, then turning into the corner (and continuing to brake).
2. The "Roll Through Zone" where the driver steps off the brakes & lets the car "roll" through the corner ... before picking the throttle up.
3. Corner exit ... where the driver picks up the throttle & starts unwinding the steering wheel coming out of the corner.

* Some people ... even relatively experienced PT drivers ... don't recognize this "Roll Through Zone" concept because when they step off the brakes in their car, the front end shoots up (lifts) ... instantly causing the car to push. So they don't allow a "Roll Through Zone." They stay on the brakes all the way to the point they need to pick up the throttle. This is not ideal, as using the brakes to keep the front end down scrubs off way more speed. In professional racing, we use special shock pistons, bleeds & valving to keep the front end down ... when the driver lifts off the brake ... so the car can roll and keep higher cornering speed ... versus continued deceleration from constant braking.

Ok. Time to shine some light on the rear suspension functionality. The choice of rear suspension type ... 3-Link, 4-Link, Torque Arm, Truck Arm, 19-Link, etc ... has NO effect on the car's handling in the Roll Through Zone. I know. What ??? And ... the anti-squat percentage, instant center location, length of arm, etc, etc ... have NO effect on the car's handling in the Roll Through Zone. The suspension linkage acts as a mechanical lever when torque is applied. There is no torque being applied to the rear end (or rear suspension) in the Roll Through Zone. No brake torque & no engine torque.

So what affects the car's rear grip in the Roll Through Zone? A lot.
Tire width
Tire Contact Patch
Tire Camber
Tire compound (softness/bite)
Spring Rate
Sway Bar Rate
Weight Mass (rear specifically)
CG
Roll Center
Track Width
Shock Valving

... just not the suspension linkage.

I hear someone asking ... as happens at the workshops ... "So Ron, what does the rear suspension linkage ... and it's settings like anti-squat percentage, instant center location, length of arm, etc, ... affect?" Everything to do with corner entry ... before the Roll Through Zone ... and everything to do with corner exit ... after the Roll Through Zone. So when we're choosing a rear suspension linkage ... and setting it up ... our focus needs to be on getting into the corner ... and out of the corner ... the quickest way possible.

With a torque arm, regular 3-Link, 4-Link, truck arm, etc ... the instant center location defines the swing arm length & anti-squat percentage of the rear suspension.
* If we move the instant center location closer or up ... we are increasing the loading on the tires for increased corner exit grip ... but decreasing the loading on the rear tires for decreased corner entry grip.
* If we move the instant center location forward and/or down ... we are decreasing the loading on the tires for decreased corner exit grip ... but increasing the loading on the rear tires for increased corner entry grip.
* It is ALWAYS a compromise. So knowledgeable tuners/builders choose their rear suspension weapon & set it up appropriately to have the best compromise they think will produce the quickest laps ... or in some cases ... will provide the feel the driver wants. (Some drivers are ok with a loose car on exit but not entry & vice versa.)

This is where the Decoupled 3-Link can out perform every other solid axle rear suspension. There doesn't have to be a compromise with a Decoupled 3-Link. The Decel link can be set where the car has amazing corner entry grip to drive in deep ... see Elvis ... and then brake safely with full grip. The Accel link can be set where the car has amazing corner exit grip ... to roll the throttle on quicker & harder ... and giddy up out of the corner better than any other set-up. The Decoupled 3-Link is so good many racing sanctioning bodies outlawed them back in the 90's. But we don't have to follow those rules in the PT, Optima, Good Guys, track Car world. :)

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Some Racing Sanctioning bodies still allow Decoupled 3-Links ... as long as there is no damper as part of the design. With good reason. When we add a damper (shock) with the right valving & response rate ... the grip is amazing. It calms the car down when accelerating full throttle out of the corner & smooths out the gear shifts. It makes a high powered race car ... easier to drive fast.

124131

And ... if we utilize a double adjustable shock ... and make the shock cable adjustable from the driver cockpit ... the driver can tune the rear suspension to any track conditions in an instant. Need more rear grip on exit? Turn the Accel knob one way. Too much rear grip on exit (pushing)? Turn the knob the other way. Need more rear grip on corner entry under hard braking? Turn the Decel knob one way. Too much rear grip on corner entry ? Turn the knob the other way. No climbing under the car to tune it. Grab a handful of rear grip whenever you need it. Give some back if you got greedy.


:cheers:

[Ron S]

I'd love to say, I couldn't have said it better myself, but I couldn't have said that if I wanted to. Great tech Ron, taking the complex and breaking it down for the masses is definitely your best skill. It is easy to see why I went this route, after that explanation, I am dying to drive this thing, and compare it to the truck arm arrangement I drive now. This car will be minus 150 horsepower from my Mustang, at least at first, so it will be an apples and oranges comparison. Still pumped

[Torquedork]

I will do what we discussed earlier, Humpster eyebrow with shortened window opening. I know your dying for me to get on that, unfortunately the suspension comes first, then I have to finish the front fenders for the new wheelbase change, and get them off to have the molds made. Then I'll get on the quarters, can't wait.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/red20amx-1.jpg

That's Cool Ron. I know it won't be easy. I still like the look of a Donohue Spoiler on the back. Seems to balance the look of the car out really nice.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/NEW7A5_zpspcppfwzs-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/NEW7A5_zpspcppfwzs.jpg.html)

Thankfully, my Turd Brown Rambler hasn't blown up yet. LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/turd1a8_zpsdloqf3yn-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/turd1a8_zpsdloqf3yn.jpg.html)

[Ron S]

If I don't do a big gay wing for down force, I will definitely run the spoiler. Digging the pic, needs to have a bunch of Camaro's behind it, with a track for a back ground pic though. LOL I will post that pic over on Lat G also for feedback.

[67SSDan]

If I don't do a big gay wing for down force, I will definitely run the spoiler. Digging the pic, needs to have a bunch of Camaro's behind it, with a track for a back ground pic though. LOL I will post that pic over on Lat G also for feedback.

Ooooo, definitely digging the spoiler. Changes the whole look of the car from the side!

Dan

[Godbolt]

:kewlpics:Love it Torquedork. Also love your turd brown Rambler!


That's Cool Ron. I know it won't be easy. I still like the look of a Donohue Spoiler on the back. Seems to balance the look of the car out really nice.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/NEW7A5_zpspcppfwzs-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/NEW7A5_zpspcppfwzs.jpg.html)

Thankfully, my Turd Brown Rambler hasn't blown up yet. LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/02/turd1a8_zpsdloqf3yn-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/turd1a8_zpsdloqf3yn.jpg.html)

[Ron S]

With as much travel as this car is running, the fender is going to require some surgery. Again


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160229_174514L-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160229_154553L-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160302_183012L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

Got the fender clearanced to allow for this crazy wheel travel. 3.75" of up travel hitting nothing even at full lock. Started getting the flares together, I might like them better then before.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160303_143837L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160303_162635L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160303_162643L-1.jpg

[Ron S]

Ready for mud, now comes the hard part, duplicating it for the other side.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160305_140759L-1.jpg

[linkstar69]

Certainly looks like it was always supposed to be that way

[Torquedork]

Probably best. Looks like you got the symetry better now.

[RMMiller]

I like it, what are you using for the flares, are they from a donor or scratch built?

[Ron S]

They are donor parts, its just faster. Put the ZO6 19x12 wheels on the front. With the enlarged wheel openings, they fit great.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160307_155834L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160307_162401L-1.jpg

[68byrd]

It looks even better than before, and it was bad ass before.

[Torquedork]

So Ron asked me to play with the R/W/B AMC racing scheme colors.

The Penske/Donohue scheme is different from the Roy Wood/Follmer scheme in where the colors break. He seemed to like the Follmer scheme so here goes.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3a1_zpsvxj1sqqu-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3a1_zpsvxj1sqqu.jpg.html)


Follmer car

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ta7c_zps18sp8g5g-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ta7c_zps18sp8g5g.jpg.html)


Donohue car

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3b_zpsvjqaybpa-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3b_zpsvjqaybpa.jpg.html)

[Paraman1]

I like the second picture with the shorter section of white better , not that I get a vote on the matter but it just looks better to me .

[Torquedork]

I like the second picture with the shorter section of white better , not that I get a vote on the matter but it just looks better to me .

OK. That being said, Here's BOTH schemes on Ron's car. Which one?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3a1_zpsvxj1sqqu-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3a1_zpsvxj1sqqu.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3c_zpspumtgb7c-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3c_zpspumtgb7c.jpg.html)

[Norm Peterson]

May be a bit picky, but I think it'd work a little better if the red/white boundary was made parallel to the white/blue boundary. The white/blue can't be made to work exactly like in the Donohue and Follmer cars because it can't be aimed at the center of the rear wheel. There's no side exhaust outlets to aim the red/white at, so there's some freedom there.


Norm

[Torquedork]

May be a bit picky, but I think it'd work a little better if the red/white boundary was made parallel to the white/blue boundary. The white/blue can't be made to work exactly like in the Donohue and Follmer cars because it can't be aimed at the center of the rear wheel. There's no side exhaust outlets to aim the red/white at, so there's some freedom there.


Norm

The diagonals have nothing to do with pointing to the center of the wheels. They both work off the angle of the C pillar. There's no real right or wrong way to do the AMC racing scheme in particular. The AMC NASCAR Matador RWB scheme ran the opposite angle based on the A pillar angle and the two top Pro/Stock Drag Racing Hornets ran one working off the A pillar angle and one off the C pillar in opposite directions.

[Streetbu]

Second rendering is my favorite. Hell of a build you've got going Ron! Keep it up!

[454bug]

Awesome fab work Ron!! The rework is looking great! :cheers:

Speaking of Follmer's color design... My college buddy owns George's ORIGINAL 1968 Trans Am Javelin and I really like his color scheme the best! The color blue used for the early years was much closer to the blue used on your Mustang. George always used the blue/white/red scheme on both of the years he ran Trans Am Javelins... Peter Revson and others ran the red/white/blue scheme.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2015/11/11082199_10203097166064927_6625787201225-1.jpg (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/454bug/media/Javelin%20pictures/11082199_10203097166064927_6625787201225310492_o_z psmvhmsfdb.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/10801790_10203075886612954_6952880089244-1.jpg (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/454bug/media/Javelin%20pictures/10801790_10203075886612954_6952880089244596851_n_z ps2ec9vuy9.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/Joes20Trans20Am20Javelin_zps6u3snvbx-1.jpg (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/454bug/media/Joes%20Trans%20Am%20Javelin_zps6u3snvbx.jpg.html)

My buddy was at the SVRA event in Sebring, Florida this weekend and he actually got to hang out with the MAN himself, George Follmer, and reminisce about the good old days! :headbang:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/George20Follmer_zpslyqgxx1x-1.png (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/454bug/media/George%20Follmer_zpslyqgxx1x.png.html)

[454bug]

If I don't do a big gay wing for down force, I will definitely run the spoiler. Digging the pic, needs to have a bunch of Camaro's behind it, with a track for a back ground pic though. LOL I will post that pic over on Lat G also for feedback.

The spoiler on the newer Javelins is pretty traditional but I really like the Trans Am spoilers used on the 1968 cars also! Unique!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/Spoiler_zpsv3pjienf-1.jpg (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/454bug/media/Spoiler_zpsv3pjienf.jpg.html)

[BanditDarble]

The diagonals have nothing to do with pointing to the center of the wheels. They both work off the angle of the C pillar. There's no real right or wrong way to do the AMC racing scheme in particular. The AMC NASCAR Matador RWB scheme ran the opposite angle based on the A pillar angle and the two top Pro/Stock Drag Racing Hornets ran one working off the A pillar angle and one off the C pillar in opposite directions.

Glad to see you are open to critique.

Saying that, the color breaks would look better if they were parallel like the factory schemes.

[tommycomfort]

I like the more white look where it meets the A-pillar. Then again, I know Ron will just cuss and throw things when he sees my opinion. ;-)

[67SSDan]

I think I like the second one better also, though I do like them both. Have to say though, I like the darker blue up front instead of the red for some reason.

Dan

[Ron S]

I've always liked the colors on this car, red in the front, and Grabber blue in the rear. Don't really care for the lay out though. I'm pretty sure I will break the color at the back of the hood, slope down to about the first 6"ish of the door, and about 2/3 of the roof, down to the beginning of the rear wheel opening for the blue. I wish I was more photoshop friendly.

Honestly as long as its not what Tom said, I might try it. What a putz. LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/27876-1.jpg

[Eric Howell]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3a1_zpsvxj1sqqu-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3a1_zpsvxj1sqqu.jpg.html)What about angling it the opposite way and follow the A pillar?

[Torquedork]

Here’s the two Champion Pro/Stock AMC Hornets. Each has different schemes

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/maskinbooth_zpst9fascd8-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/maskinbooth_zpst9fascd8.jpg.html)

’73 NASCAR Matador I shot at Daytona in ‘73. Richard Petty called it "The Flying Brick". LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/matdaytona_zps1frmvg93-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/matdaytona_zps1frmvg93.jpg.html)

’74 NASCAR Matador

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/nascarmat_zpseq929ipp-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/nascarmat_zpseq929ipp.jpg.html)

[linkstar69]

The layout for the color ratios the nascar teams used might be my favourite so far.

[Torquedork]

OK, I think this is my last one. Someone mentioned switching the colors so here it is.

Personally, I like the blue in front especially on this car. Visually, I think it will help tone down the bulk of the nose with the humps. I also prefer the back sweep of the colors because hopefully, Ron will make it fast enough so it looks like it's pushing the colors back just based on the high speed LOL

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3d_zpshovw8exz-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3d_zpshovw8exz.jpg.html)

[godlemmy]

Have you tried one using the a pillr

[godlemmy]

Let's try this again. Have you tried a rendering using the angle of the a pillar.i think it might visually lengthen the roof and lose the "turret top" look. Just a suggestion,might as well render all the different paint schemes.its cheaper than paint.

[Torquedork]

All Right. This is the LAST ONE switching the diagonals. I'm Going nuts with the Red/White/Blue.

I picture Ron saying....... "We're Going to make American Motors GREAT Again" LMAO

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3e_zpsrchtvmdu-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3e_zpsrchtvmdu.jpg.html)

[Gojeep]

All Right. This is the LAST ONE switching the diagonals. I'm Going nuts with the Red/White/Blue.

I picture Ron saying....... "We're Going to make American Motors GREAT Again" LMAO

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3e_zpsrchtvmdu-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3e_zpsrchtvmdu.jpg.html)

You almost have the AMC flag there now. Just need the blue to be vertical. ;)

[feeble]

How about "matching" the AMC logo? Forgive my PS skills.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


EDIT: Didn't see your post Torquedork, you posted after I started my chop. Great minds think alike!?

[Ron S]

Michael got the colors more evened out, I do like this one the best.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3e5L-1.jpg

[Torquedork]

Well I did a lot of versions for Ron so here they are together A,B,C etc.

A

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3e6_zps8k4trj85-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3e6_zps8k4trj85.jpg.html)


B

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3e5_zpsiybh5h1t-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3e5_zpsiybh5h1t.jpg.html)


C

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3e6a_zpsilisfevc-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3e6a_zpsilisfevc.jpg.html)


D

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3c_zpspumtgb7c-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3c_zpspumtgb7c.jpg.html)


E

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/ron3d_zpshovw8exz-1.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/protour71/media/ron3d_zpshovw8exz.jpg.html)

[Crestronwizard]

I feel more patriotic just from catching up on this thread :)

[dangina]

I vote D!

[813Demon340]

B or E, they give the car a feel of forward motion.

[HectorM52]

B is the only one that looks right to me.

[1965gp]

D - makes the white look more like a stripe

[feeble]

My vote is for E.

[Ron S]

My head is spinning from all the patriotic colors.

Did get one fender finished.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/03/20160312_185353L-1.jpg

[LS6 Tommy]

Penske always had the blue on the front of all the 3 color cars. AMC was always red...

Tommy

[Ant]

Ron that fender is looking killer!!! You are one very talented guy

[RS_Customs]

ZZZZzzzzzz.....MMMMOOOOORRRRREEEE...

:jump: I need to find time to call you and harass you like you use to do to David lol

Hope your doing good!

Robert

[Protour_Pinto]

Any Updates?

[DrFraZZy]

^^^^^^

[Ron S]

Got a chance to drag this thing out. First time in the day light in a long time.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/20161120_105343L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/20161120_105434L-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2016/12/20161120_105359L-1.jpg

[1965gp]

That looks insane- I love it! Almost has a hot wheels feel with the fender flares

[67SSDan]

That thing is so cool. I gotta say, I'm digging that blue with the gold wheels. I know you've already got a light blue car... but that looks pretty darn good!

Dan

[RMMiller]

That thing sits perfect, nice and low!

[johnnysrx]

Wow that looks awesome!

[Yelcamino]

That looks real good Ron! :cool:

[Rhine]

Glad that you are still making headway on this. Your Mustang was the car that got me hooked on this site, and your AMC is what has kept me coming back! Can't wait for more updates, keep kicking butt.

[jkarisny]

This build is awesome. Any updates?

[Ron S]

Just drug the thing outside to move my toolboxes down to the new building. Won't be long now.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/10/20171022_113112L-1.jpg

[jkarisny]

Cannot wait!
Question, you said you used donor wheel openings to get them larger or the shape you wanted, what were they from?

[Ron S]

Retained the factory wheel lip, with a 73 Javelin hump on it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/10/20171022_112710L-1.jpg

[Ron Sutton]

Hey Ron, It was good to see you at the Charlotte Suspension Workshop.
Hope you r project gets going well, once you move into your new shop.

:cheers:

[Ron S]

That was the most informative workshop yet. Learned more about car set up in that couple hours then I did in the 50 some years prior. Hats off to you Ron, making the complex understandable, even for my little pea brain.

Going through your new Sutton catalog, their is some really cool stuff in there I haven't seen anywhere else. Some of the stuff you packaged together in the catalog is pretty ingenious. Good seeing you buddy

[813Demon340]

I can't wait to see this one finished! Its everything my amx inspires to be!