Aluminum or Urethene subframe bushings?

[TheJDMan]

I have my new DSE subframe assembled and ready to install in my 68 Camaro. But I'm trying to decide if I should use aluminum or urethene mount bushings. I would like to hear what some of pros and cons are of each. I'd appreciate any feedback and opinions.

[another69]

Aluminum- no contest. Especially if you are using subframe connectors. I went from rubber to urethane to aluminum, and I can tell a difference. Urethane is nearly as soft as the rubber, and it makes the car feel flimsy. The AL subframe bushings made the car feel more solid. I made the mistake of using urethane suspension bushings too, and pulled them all out. Horrible for susp. bushings, rubber is much better. I have a box of misc urethane bushings that I would give away if someone wanted them- I really dislike them.

[Nessumsar]

Aluminum- no contest. Especially if you are using subframe connectors.

What he said.

[77thor]

+2

Solids all the way.

[John Wright]

Aluminum- no contest. Especially if you are using subframe connectors. Another vote for Ally.

[MrQuick]

we stopped using body mounts with most of our current builds. straight to the body.

[Tom Welch]

aluminum subframe bushings on 3 cars over the years, NO contest, aluminum or steel.

[Nessumsar]

we stopped using body mounts with most of our current builds. straight to the body.

This is how I have my Nova.

[68Formula]

Using solid for over 6 years.

[hotroddr]

we stopped using body mounts with most of our current builds. straight to the body.

X3 subframe straight to body for me too.

[John Wright]

@ Guys with no body bushings at all(body sitting on subframe),

Do you run into clearance problems?....ie my air cleaner stud is rubbing the underside of the hood now, if I took out the bushings, I would not be able to close the hood.....and what about tranny tunnel clearances?

[MrQuick]

We did, but we dropped and moved the engine back to clear everything. LOL

Not much room on the them 2nd gens as it is.

[hotroddr]

I have a small block chevy with an edelbrock performer intake and a dropped base air cleaner, I have no clearance issues between the air cleaner and the hood (except for the time I broke a motor mount). Im running a th350 transmission and had no problems with clearance between it and the floor. I did have to replace the steering rag joint with a universal joint to keep the steering column from binding, other than that, no problems. I had previously bought aluminum mounts so i kept them and mounted them below the subframe as shown in the pictures below.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/21355560015_large-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[SPADE]

Will bolting the sub frame direct to the body affect the mounting of the front core support?

[monteboy84]

Will bolting the sub frame direct to the body affect the mounting of the front core support?

The core support has body mounts too, so you can just leave them out as well, provided they're the same height as the subframe body mounts, which they usually are.

-matt

[SPADE]

Ok - so no nothing on the body or core support mounts? What will the metal to metal contact have as far a premature wear?

Does any one have pics?

[TheJDMan]

Do you have any trouble installing the transmission crossmember with no mounts?

[evostilo]

wow sounds like i need to swap out my rubbers for solid aluminum's, Thank guy's

[68Formula]

wow sounds like i need to swap out my rubbers for solid aluminum's, Thank guy's

I don't think she's going to like that, especially if they're ribbed! That's going to be some nasty chaffing. :)

[ROBS6T8]

I don't think she's going to like that, especially if they're ribbed! That's going to be some nasty chaffing. :)

^^^^^^ too funny!

[protouringrscamaro]

Wow

[protouringrscamaro]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be a nightmare to align the fenders for someone not running bushings. I was under the impression that drop bushing alone would create problems.

[NOT A TA]

We did, but we dropped and moved the engine back to clear everything. LOL

Not much room on the them 2nd gens as it is.


By eliminating the core support bushings I can see where the sheetmetal can stay "level" with the unibody and be adjusted on 1st gens but 2nd gens mount from the bottom of the subframe. Have you been doing 2nds without sub to body bushings? If so are you using taller bushings for the core support? Custom support? Moving engine down in the sub?

For the 1st and 2nd gens: Inner fender modifications? Is the inner fender mount to the subframe modified? Eliminated? What happens to steering column angle? Clearances? Front bumper mounts? Trans mount spacer required? Tunnel have to be clearanced? Seems like there would be more involved in eliminating the bushings than those of us playing the home game may be able to do without extensive modifications.

Also, how much is wheel/tire fitment and suspension travel in the front affected when the body mount bushings are eliminated?

[critter]

OK, I'll take an opposing view here.

When I built my car in 99 the polygraphite stuff was all the rage. So, following the lead of "the experts" I did that. I learned this. On articulating parts you DO NOT want to use urethane or poly bushings. Eventually you get this:

http://youtu.be/QwlofW23Jyk

So I rebuilt my suspension last year with all the good stuff. Let's hope the experts are right this time. LOL.

What I didn't change was my sub-frame bushings. Why? No wear and no noise at all. They don't move. They just maintain the spacing between the sub-frame and the body. Are solids better? I can't say. I've never had them. But structurally I can't see these being any worse.

[chicane67]

Aluminum... hands down.

I have been running Global West solids for 22 years now with ZERO complaints... and wont built a chassis without them.

[MrQuick]

Ok - so no nothing on the body or core support mounts? What will the metal to metal contact have as far a premature wear?

Does any one have pics?
Solid, no movement should equal minimal wear.




By eliminating the core support bushings I can see where the sheetmetal can stay "level" with the unibody and be adjusted on 1st gens but 2nd gens mount from the bottom of the subframe. Have you been doing 2nds without sub to body bushings? If so are you using taller bushings for the core support? Custom support? Moving engine down in the sub?

For the 1st and 2nd gens: Inner fender modifications? Is the inner fender mount to the subframe modified? Eliminated? What happens to steering column angle? Clearances? Front bumper mounts? Trans mount spacer required? Tunnel have to be clearanced? Seems like there would be more involved in eliminating the bushings than those of us playing the home game may be able to do without extensive modifications.

Also, how much is wheel/tire fitment and suspension travel in the front affected when the body mount bushings are eliminated?

Sorry to derail the thread but as I said these are full builds and not just a weekend swap job. Everything is done for a reason and well thought out during the process. It is alot of work but sometimes nesassary for our goal.

john, we did use a washer between the radiator support and the frame in the past but now we are solid to it. No movment at all.





OK, I'll take an opposing view here.

When I built my car in 99 the polygraphite stuff was all the rage. So, following the lead of "the experts" I did that. I learned this. On articulating parts you DO NOT want to use urethane or poly bushings. Eventually you get this:

http://youtu.be/QwlofW23Jyk

So I rebuilt my suspension last year with all the good stuff. Let's hope the experts are right this time. LOL.

What I didn't change was my sub-frame bushings. Why? No wear and no noise at all. They don't move. They just maintain the spacing between the sub-frame and the body. Are solids better? I can't say. I've never had them. But structurally I can't see these being any worse.

Energy suspension has a great set up. The give you the right type of grease and also shells have zerk's so you can lubricate the bushings at each service interval.

The poly graphites sucked because the grease would break down and turn into a fine powder that slowly wore the bushing down.


OP!! Poly with no subframe connectors....Aluminum or solids with connectors. After time the material around your cage nuts would crack.
Vince

[Rod]

Aluminum

[davidk68]

OP (Steve).....Not trying to hijack your thread but thought this would be a good place to ask this question:

I'll be running DSE subframe connectors. What about the new Delrin subframe connectors?? Supposedly they're "quieter" than alluminum and everyone who uses Delrin in suspesion components claim zero deflection.

Thanks,
David

[RBEAST]

Looks like mine are coming out now too!