Project BLUEprint, 1965 Falcon

[LowBuckX]

Looking good Been following this since the start...

[Bryce]

Thanks!

I will have some good updates next week. The rest of my 3-link parts are being delivered. i am guessing about 4-6 weeks for the 3-link to be complete.

[craigs73]

no problem!! im a chevy guy thru and thru but i like the looks of these cars alot. what do you plan on doing for paint

[carnalsupply]

Hey Craig,

If you're interested in a '66 Fairlane there's an original 289/3-speed car available for sale in my neighborhood (NorCal). It needs quarter panels but the rest of the car, from what I can see, looks solid.

My wife told me to buy it (believe it or not) but I don't need another project right now.

Bob

[Bryce]

no problem!! im a chevy guy thru and thru but i like the looks of these cars alot. what do you plan on doing for paint

Probably paint the front end to match the rest of the car. Then paint the whole thing 2010 mustang grabber blue.

[Bryce]

Hey Craig,

If you're interested in a '66 Fairlane there's an original 289/3-speed car available for sale in my neighborhood (NorCal). It needs quarter panels but the rest of the car, from what I can see, looks solid.

My wife told me to buy it (believe it or not) but I don't need another project right now.

Bob

Bob,

I think you need to buy it!

[carnalsupply]

Lemme tell you, it's been REALLY tempting! I'd love to put a big inch SBF in it with a set of the rims we were talking about earlier.

I've got a side project in the works right now and if that comes through as hoped I'll have a little extra $$ and might just do it.

Damn, now you got me actually considering it! Glad you're not my neighbor, I'd be in deep s*%t!

[TCI Engineering]

Hey Bryce, Sorry I wasn't available yesterday, I hope Sara was able find the answer you were looking for.

I will be watching your progress with great interest.

-J

[Bryce]

Yep,

I am hoping there will be a package on my door tonight. Leaving work now. If its there pics will be up shortly!!!

Thanks again.

[TCI Engineering]

I was being a little vague in my post as to not let the cat out of the bag. I truly hope it works out for you, maybe others will follow your lead.

-J

[Bryce]

No package from UPS, can you shoot me a tracking number when you get a chance. I hate getting all anxious!

[craigs73]

well im in ohio LOL....... so thats out plus :spank2:its a ford:machine: just joking with ya we need to worry more about these ricers than ford vs chevy:thankyou:

[TCI Engineering]

No package from UPS, can you shoot me a tracking number when you get a chance. I hate getting all anxious!

It'll be there today. :cheers:

-J

[carnalsupply]

Ya know Bryce, I don't even know you and you're a bad influence; I put in an offer on that '66 Fairlane yesterday! Now it's just a matter of whether the owner accepts it or not.

[craigs73]

bob im curious what was the asking price?

[Bryce]

Ya know Bryce, I don't even know you and you're a bad influence; I put in an offer on that '66 Fairlane yesterday! Now it's just a matter of whether the owner accepts it or not.


BAD influence? Hey you are a ford guy now, you came back to the good side! Awesome, I hope you get the car. I would like to see what you are able to come up with. you know it wont stay a street cruiser for long.

[Bryce]

It'll be there today. :cheers:

-J

You da'man!!!!!

[PhillipM]

Secrets? Nobody likes secrets!! What is coming from TCI???

:)

[Bryce]

I will post pics when I get the parts.

[Bryce]

darnit, I missed the fedex guy yesterday.

[PhillipM]

Oh man, I hate it when that happens! Go pick it up at the facility!! LOL

[Bryce]

I am going to try and leave work early so I can meet up with the fedex guy. Wish me luck.

Otherwise its off to the distribution center tomorrow.

[Bryce]

Well i missed the fedex guy by ten minutes.

But the USPS sent me some rod ends. I got a great deal from http://www.qscomponents.com/index.html
these guys. So most of the pieces are in my garage now. Coilovers will be the last ordered item.

[GrabberGT]

Well i missed the fedex guy by ten minutes.

But the USPS sent me some rod ends. I got a great deal from http://www.qscomponents.com/index.html
these guys. So most of the pieces are in my garage now. Coilovers will be the last ordered item.


I bought my pieces from them as well. fast shipping and great prices.

I cant wait to see that TCI sent you. I have my TCI torque arm system installed but keep running into other roadblocks keeping me from getting the car back on the ground and trying it out.

[John Wright]

Did you get those wheels and tires mounted up yet?

[Bryce]

I bought my pieces from them as well. fast shipping and great prices.

I cant wait to see that TCI sent you. I have my TCI torque arm system installed but keep running into other roadblocks keeping me from getting the car back on the ground and trying it out.

I am still saving the surprise until I get the parts and get pictures!!

[Bryce]

Did you get those wheels and tires mounted up yet?

Not yet, I am still waiting on the wheels from centerline. But I do have the front tires in the garage.

[MoparCar]

I bought my pieces from them as well. fast shipping and great prices.

I cant wait to see that TCI sent you. I have my TCI torque arm system installed but keep running into other roadblocks keeping me from getting the car back on the ground and trying it out.


Grabber,
Do you have any pictures of your modified TCI t/a installed?
Thanks, Wes

[GrabberGT]

Grabber,
Do you have any pictures of your modified TCI t/a installed?
Thanks, Wes

Nah... Kind of hard to take pictures on jackstands.

[MoparCar]

Hey......I bet it was harder to install on jackstands than take pictures :)
I've considered their torque arm for my universal application but haven't seen any "custom" pictures.

Back to the original topic-sorry.

Thanks, Wes

[Bryce]

Here are some updates. I made it to fedex today to pick up all my stuff. New wheels!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/tn_full_falcon_2-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/570153)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/tn_full_falcon_4-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/570155)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/tn_full_falcon_7-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/570158)

centerline wheels. 17 x 8 in the front and 17 x 9.5 in the back. Brushed face and polished hoop. they look awesome!

[Bryce]

So the secret that I have been working on with TCI, I will be using their 4-link cradle as a starting point for my 3-link suspension. It will save me a lot of fabrication time. It will still be heavily modified. Here are some quick mockup pictures. Including some of my other parts for the 3-link.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/tn_full_falcon_3-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/570154)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/tn_full_falcon_5-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/570156)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/tn_full_IMG_1400-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/570161)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/tn_full_falcon_8-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/570159)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/tn_full_IMG_1399-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/570160)

[srh3trinity]

Those wheels are gonna look awesome. Looking forward to seeing the three link build.

[chunger]

Looking good. How much room is there between the rear horizontal tube and the upper link mount on the rear end? It looks pretty close in the pic - I'd hate to see you do all this work and only end up with 2" of travel!

[Flash68]

Yeah those wheels are gonna be tits on that car!

[Bryce]

Looking good. How much room is there between the rear horizontal tube and the upper link mount on the rear end? It looks pretty close in the pic - I'd hate to see you do all this work and only end up with 2" of travel!

Well, that will be one of the mods. The rear crossmember will be cutout between the two 1" for/aft bars. This area will be strengthened by tying into the watts link and the floor. This will be stronger and stiffer than just the cross tube.

[Bryce]

Yeah those wheels are gonna be tits on that car!


Those wheels are gonna look awesome. Looking forward to seeing the three link build.

Thanks guys, these wheels look awesome! I love the satin finish on the face.

[John Wright]

Wow...good updates...I missed reading the last few...wheels looks great, and all that fab'ing underneath is cool too.

[carnalsupply]

Superb wheel choice, very old-school vibe yet updated.

Who's Watt's-Link setup are you using, and do you have any shots of it? I don't remember seeing any in the blog?

[DynoDon]

I'm really liking those wheels the more I look at them. I think I might go the same way on my 63 Falcon Convert. You mention in one of your posts that you got a really good deal on them. Could you elaborate or PM me details?
I plan on 245 and 275 on my 63 as well. I might need to run a 9" wheel on the rear though

[Bryce]

Wow...good updates...I missed reading the last few...wheels looks great, and all that fab'ing underneath is cool too.


Thanks!

[Bryce]

Superb wheel choice, very old-school vibe yet updated.

Who's Watt's-Link setup are you using, and do you have any shots of it? I don't remember seeing any in the blog?

I am building my own watts link. Propeller and cradle.

I think these wheels really match the theme of my car.

[Bryce]

I'm really liking those wheels the more I look at them. I think I might go the same way on my 63 Falcon Convert. You mention in one of your posts that you got a really good deal on them. Could you elaborate or PM me details?
I plan on 245 and 275 on my 63 as well. I might need to run a 9" wheel on the rear though


I got them cheaper than summit. Call centerline and see if the have the sale prices still.

[carnalsupply]

Hey Bryce,

I'm planning on running a Panhard Bar on my Fury, but only because a Watts Link is kind of a mystery to me in terms of bar length and pickup points. Would you mind giving me an idea of how you formulate/calculate them?

My Fury has a 47" wide 9" and will have about 3" travel in compression, if that's of any help.

[Bryce]

I designed the watts link in a CAD program and constrained the end points and moved it through suspension travel.

Mine has a 14" link from the housing to the propeller and a 3" link to link measurment on the propeller. I have .008" later travel of the center pivot point at full compression of 3" (same for extension). With this set up the bars are horizontal at ride height and perpendicular to the propeller. At max travel the angle is 65 degrees to the propeller.

hope this helps.

[carnalsupply]

Yeah, to a degree it does, but a couple things catch my eye:



".008" later travel" Is this a mistype or can you explain what it means to a total layman?
"3" link to link" on the prop" As an admitted layman that sounds like an extremely short distance, at least compared to the various Watts props I've seen used. Is the short length based on a minimal amount of up/down axle movement?
I've got auto-cad, would you be willing to share your file?

Thanks,

Bob

[Bryce]

".008" lateral travel" sorry I was typing fast. Since the pivot point is fixed on the chassis and the tires are planted to the ground, a 3" compression would result in a "sideways movement" of the body of .008". SO not very much, compare that to a panhard would be about .200" at 30" long (that was a guess).

Yes short propeller is due to longer arms and limited travel.

I made a sketch using CATIA to visualize the watts link. It took less than 5min. But I dont mind sharing the file. What files can you open? I could save it as a DXF for you.

[LeighP]

Very cool wheels...something different, I've not seen those before!

[carnalsupply]

LOL, "lateral", I should have been able to guess that!

I've just recently installed Auto-Cad but haven't had much of a chance to touch or it play so I couldn't actually say what format would be best; I was going to have a friend of mine load it up and help me work through it so whatever you think is best.

Sorry but a couple more questions:
What is the width of your rear housing?
What type of vertical travel are you building into it?
Are you going to incorporate your prop mount into your existing 3rd arm mounts or do you have something else in mind?

[Bryce]

LOL, "lateral", I should have been able to guess that!

I've just recently installed Auto-Cad but haven't had much of a chance to touch or it play so I couldn't actually say what format would be best; I was going to have a friend of mine load it up and help me work through it so whatever you think is best.

Sorry but a couple more questions:
What is the width of your rear housing?
What type of vertical travel are you building into it?
Are you going to incorporate your prop mount into your existing 3rd arm mounts or do you have something else in mind?

Good luck with Auto-CAD. It should be a lot of fun. Shoot me a PM with your email and I can send you a DXF file that you should be able to open.

Housing width is 52.5" plus 5" for axle flange width. I will have 4" of travel 2" up and 2" down. I am mounting the cradle and prop to the chassis, so I wont tie into the UCA housing mount. But I am tying into the rear coilover crossmember.

[carnalsupply]

PM Sent.

Thanks much.

[carnalsupply]

When I first began looking into Watts Links a year or so ago I came across these .gifs, which I totally forgot about until you mentioned you're mounting your prop on the chassis, which made me scratch my head for a second.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/Watts01-1.gif
Watts Link mounted on Diff Housing

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/Watts02-1.gif
Watts Link mounted on Chassis


From a mechanical standpoint, do you think there's any real difference in the effectiveness between the two different mounting points? From my way of thinking the chassis mount is easier to fabricate and reduces a bit of un-sprung weight as opposed to the diff mounted but will need to have various vertically spaced mounting positions to accommodate varying ride heights.

[Bryce]

Yes, I think chassis mounted watts prop are better than axle mounted. If you are driving the car the axle has a constant height to the ground except for tire sidewall deflection, so minimal height changes. The body moves up and down +-3". When the body moves up or down the center of gravity changes (CG). Since the body/chassis weighs more than the rearend the CG follows the body movement, but not exactly since the rearend does have weight. The watts link pivot point on the prop defines the roll center of the rear suspension. I think it is better to keep the roll center and CG height seperation the same throughout the suspension travel. The reason why; the sway bar is dialed in for that distance between CG and RC. I think it will give you more consistent handling during the suspension travel.

I hope it made sence, I am off to work and just took my first sip of coffee.

[carnalsupply]

Yeah, it makes perfect sense, which is kind of frightening, actually!

One thing I don't have ready access to is a machine shop, so fabbing up parts can be a pain in the butt, so I've found a couple companies that manufacture Watt's Link kits, one that mounts to the chassis and one that mounts to the rear housing, and based on your explanation and the fact I think the chassis mounting will allow me to more neatly package the suspension components, I'll probably go with the chassis mounted set-up as well.

Thanks for the time and effort, I really appreciate it.

Bob

[Bjkadron]

Awesome! Wheels and Parts! You are making a LOT more progress than I am! Looking great!

[Bryce]

Awesome! Wheels and Parts! You are making a LOT more progress than I am! Looking great!

Thanks Benjamin,

Still long ways away from driving it again. But small progress is still progress. Good luck with your build.

[Bryce]

Yeah, it makes perfect sense, which is kind of frightening, actually!

One thing I don't have ready access to is a machine shop, so fabbing up parts can be a pain in the butt, so I've found a couple companies that manufacture Watt's Link kits, one that mounts to the chassis and one that mounts to the rear housing, and based on your explanation and the fact I think the chassis mounting will allow me to more neatly package the suspension components, I'll probably go with the chassis mounted set-up as well.

Thanks for the time and effort, I really appreciate it.

Bob

I have a full machine shop at work but no mill or lathe at home. I desing with my limitations in mind. I never lack on the engineering side and I dont sacrafice weight or asthetics. Once I get my prop built I will post pictures and an explanation of how I built it.

[65BBODY]

super curious to see the new wheels on your car!!!
Put em on!! or at least lets see them mocked up?? Thanks,

[Bryce]

I am driving up to Driverzinc today to get the tire mounted. So pictures will follow tonight!

[PhillipM]

Hey Bryce, just got back in town from a trip over the weekend. That stuff looks great. It is interesting, as a lot of those parts look like UB Machine or Speedway Engineering parts that you got from TCI.

[Bryce]

Hey Bryce, just got back in town from a trip over the weekend. That stuff looks great. It is interesting, as a lot of those parts look like UB Machine or Speedway Engineering parts that you got from TCI.

Actually only the cradle is from TCI. The other pieces are from speedway.

All of them will be modified for my applcation.

[PhillipM]

Lol! Okay. Sorry if you mentioned that earlier. I was just glancing at the pictures :)

[65BBODY]

pictures????

[Bryce]

pictures????

Not yet. I know I am boring. I am still waiting for valve stems from centerline. None of the ones i have fit the wheel lip shape. So I cant mount the tires until I get the valve stems. They were supposed to ship friday from 100 miles away. I guess I am making a call today.

[PhillipM]

"I will have 4" of travel 2" up and 2" down. I am mounting the cradle and prop to the chassis, so I wont tie into the UCA housing mount. But I am tying into the rear coilover crossmember."

I don't know Bryce... That seems like very little travel.?.

[Bryce]

You think so Phillip? Shooting from the hip I dont think I will have any issues with that amount of travel. It will be a street car but not a lot of street miles. I hope to see more track and autocross time withe the car.

[Bryce]

So I gave it some thought and decided to do some calculations. Rear end weight is 1250lbs with approx 250lbs in unsprung weight. Lets say the springs (coilovers) are 1:1 motion ratio and vertical. I want to design in enough spring and travel to handle a 1G bump. My sprung mass is 1000lbs or 500 per side, spring rate is 200lbs and my travel is two inches.

F=kx
F=500lbsx1G=500
k=200
x=? how much travel do I need

x=F/k
x=500/200=2.5"

Therefore, I might hit the bumpstops on a 1G bump. So I can lighten the rearend, increase rear spring stiffness but consider spring frequencies before I make changes there. Or I can increase travel of the spring before the bumps stops make contact. Or live with the fact that I might be using my bumpstops.

Here is an example. My daily driver, a lowered 95 mustang, has stock spring rates in the back with 0.5" of travel before I contact the bumpstops. It compresses the bumpstops about 0.5" as well. The ride is fine under 95% of all driving with only me in the car. When I see a huge bump I slow down. It seems to work just fine for me.

[PhillipM]

So I gave it some thought and decided to do some calculations. Rear end weight is 1250lbs with approx 250lbs in unsprung weight. Lets say the springs (coilovers) are 1:1 motion ratio and vertical. I want to design in enough spring and travel to handle a 1G bump. My sprung mass is 1000lbs or 500 per side, spring rate is 200lbs and my travel is two inches.

F=kx
F=500lbsx1G=500
k=200
x=? how much travel do I need

x=F/k
x=500/200=2.5"

Therefore, I might hit the bumpstops on a 1G bump. So I can lighten the rearend, increase rear spring stiffness but consider spring frequencies before I make changes there. Or I can increase travel of the spring before the bumps stops make contact. Or live with the fact that I might be using my bumpstops.

Here is an example. My daily driver, a lowered 95 mustang, has stock spring rates in the back with 0.5" of travel before I contact the bumpstops. It compresses the bumpstops about 0.5" as well. The ride is fine under 95% of all driving with only me in the car. When I see a huge bump I slow down. It seems to work just fine for me.

It's definitely up to you, and it sounds like you have it all under control. Our Oldsmobile had about 2.5" of bump in it until I C notched it. Now it has 4" and rides awesome. I don't have any math to back it up but real world testing around town and on Power Tour has taught me to go with 7" travel shocks and at least 3.5" of bump for a smooth uninterrupted ride. If you plan to keep yours on the track more than this will not be as important.

[craigs73]

Not yet. I know I am boring.

:sleeping::throw::smashcomp:postpics:

[Bryce]

:sleeping::throw::smashcomp:postpics:


Dude, Im driving up saturday to pick up the tires. Hopefully I will have some valvestems. I cant seem to find any that fit the wheels.

[Bryce]

It's definitely up to you, and it sounds like you have it all under control. Our Oldsmobile had about 2.5" of bump in it until I C notched it. Now it has 4" and rides awesome. I don't have any math to back it up but real world testing around town and on Power Tour has taught me to go with 7" travel shocks and at least 3.5" of bump for a smooth uninterrupted ride. If you plan to keep yours on the track more than this will not be as important.

The stiffer the spring the less travel you need. The stiffer the spring the harsher the ride. My falcon has 7" travel shocks in the front. I wish I could have longer shocks in the back. At full droop my shock length is 16-17". An accurate measurement has not been made. This puts me at a 5" stroke for the AFCO T2 coilovers.

[PhillipM]

I would have thought that using the lower shock mounts you pictured would allow a longer shock than that... Hmm.

[Bryce]

I would have thought that using the lower shock mounts you pictured would allow a longer shock than that... Hmm.

I was hoping I would too. But after initial measurements it looks like I will be maxing out at 5" of travel.

[65BBODY]

Wheel pics!!!
I think i am more excited than you are to see those wheels on the car!
ha. They are cool wheels, nice choice. I'm diggin em enough I am thinking about putting them on my car. You dont mind do you???

[Bryce]

Wheel pics!!!
I think i am more excited than you are to see those wheels on the car!
ha. They are cool wheels, nice choice. I'm diggin em enough I am thinking about putting them on my car. You dont mind do you???

HAHA, You might get them mounted before I do. haha. I spent over a year trying to decide on wheels. I am very happy with my choice.

I called centerline again last night. He said they will be at my house tonight. I still plan on driving up to corona to pick everything up from Driverzinc on saturday. hopefully I can get the tires mounted.

[Bryce]

So centerline designed a wheel that will not accept a metal valve stem. I picked up 4 valve stems from Driverzinc and will modify them to fit the wheels. So it will be a few weeks before I will head back to corona so Jon can mount up the tires. I will put the wheels on the car tonight and take some pics.

[Bryce]

Here are some mounted pics, no tires yet.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03349-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/573581)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03350-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/573582)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03351-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/573583)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03352-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/573584)

[Bryce]

So I modified the valve stems to fit. Now I just need to drive back up to corona and have Jon at driverzinc mount/balance the tires.

[454bug]

Wheels look great!! :twothumbs

The Falken tires will be a great combination.

[Flash68]

yeah dude lookin sweet!!

[Bryce]

Thanks guys!

[Bryce]

Here are the rod ends I will be using for my watts links.

http://aurora.thomasnet.com/keyword/browse-all-products-aircraft-male-rod-ends/m-xalb-series-male-rod-ends-ptfe-liners-available-?plpver=10&keyword=XALM-8&key=product&keycateg=1077&keyprod=3001114&SchType=1

http://www.cantrellstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8160_8173_8174&products_id=1188

http://www.cantrellstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8160_8173_8174&products_id=1189


and these threaded tubes

http://www.allstarperformance.com/product.htm?prod=861

I am also building my own aluminum watts cradle and prop.

[PhillipM]

So I modified the valve stems to fit. Now I just need to drive back up to corona and have Jon at driverzinc mount/balance the tires.

Man that was quick!

[Bryce]

All I needed to do was take it to the disc sander and bevel the edge where is was contacting the wheel.

I am really excited about mounting my tires. So I went over to big-O tires to check out their setup and talk with their guys. The wanted to charge me $30 bucks a wheel to mount and balance. Screw that. I will just wait till Jon gets my other set of tires in and drive up there. He would do a much better job anyway!

[craigs73]

looking good man :cool:

[fordsbyjay]

All I needed to do was take it to the disc sander and bevel the edge where is was contacting the wheel.

I am really excited about mounting my tires. So I went over to big-O tires to check out their setup and talk with their guys. The wanted to charge me $30 bucks a wheel to mount and balance. Screw that. I will just wait till Jon gets my other set of tires in and drive up there. He would do a much better job anyway!

It is almost $25/wheel around here.

[PhillipM]

It is almost $25/wheel around here.

Yup, 30 bucks a tire here in Arizona.

[Bjkadron]

Hmm.. I mount my own at the shop, then $5 a wheel to balance them.

[PhillipM]

Hmm.. I mount my own at the shop, then $5 a wheel to balance them.

I don't think most of us mount enough tires to have our own equipment.

[Bryce]

Hmm.. I mount my own at the shop, then $5 a wheel to balance them.

Lucky. I can mount my own tires, I have in the past. But with these wheels and the small sidewall I dont want to take a chance.

[Bjkadron]

I don't think most of us mount enough tires to have our own equipment.

Well I wouldn't either. Like I said it is at the shop where I work. We wouldn't have it their if one of the workers hadn't swapped for something.. I think a dead lawnmower.


Lucky. I can mount my own tires, I have in the past. But with these wheels and the small sidewall I dont want to take a chance.

True.. I wimped out when i got mine and just had them mount and balance them there. But it wasn't going to be any less if I hadn't. So it was kinda a no-brainer. And the only ones I mount are the chap ones that I'm going to burn off very shortly. I let someone else mess up the expensive ones.

[Bryce]

So I am working on my TCI cradle modifications and the watts link mount.

The blue piece is the modded TCI cradle.
Gray will be all aluminum.
Light yellow is stock trunk floor.
yellow is steel.

Its not complete yet. But starting to get ideas on paper is the hardest part.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts2JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/574143)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts3JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/574144)

[PhillipM]

Sweet!

[Bjkadron]

Very nice!

[Bryce]

Thanks guys, I heading to FEDex right now to pick up some more parts from TCI. Hopefully I will have some more physical updates this weekend.

[Bryce]

Spent all day yesterday and today cutting and grinding off the stock bumpstops. What a pain when they mount to the frame. It hard trying to not harm the frame. ALmost ready to mount the TCI frame brackets. Oh and I got a TV in the garage now. WOOHOO.

[PhillipM]

Pics! What made them so difficult? You couldn't drill the spot welds out? I'm sure when I see the pics it will make sense. Oh yea brotha, gotta have one of those!

[DynoDon]

Spent all day yesterday and today cutting and grinding off the stock bumpstops. What a pain when they mount to the frame. It hard trying to not harm the frame. ALmost ready to mount the TCI frame brackets. Oh and I got a TV in the garage now. WOOHOO.

That's funny, I did the ones on my 63 Falcon today. I ended up using an air chisel to blow them apart and then ground down the spot welds that were hidden inside of the upright section. PITA!
I was also cleaning off 47 years old undercoating and dirt (Note to self, never buy a car from a guy in Palmdale that lives on a dirt road ever again)

My TCI Rear supports and frame brackets are now back off and going for powder coating.

[Bryce]

Pics! What made them so difficult? You couldn't drill the spot welds out? I'm sure when I see the pics it will make sense. Oh yea brotha, gotta have one of those!

Well I didnt take any before pics. But all seven spot welds were into the frame. I used my spot weld drill but had to be very careful not to cut into the frame itself. Then I used a hacksaw blade and cut the spot weld with the blade between the frame and bump stop sheetmetal. Then used the die grinder to help thin out the bumpstop sheetmetal so it would fail when I hit it with the chisel. Well now both are off and no frame damage. So I am happy. Drilling holes now for all the brackets.

[Bryce]

That's funny, I did the ones on my 63 Falcon today. I ended up using an air chisel to blow them apart and then ground down the spot welds that were hidden inside of the upright section. PITA!
I was also cleaning off 47 years old undercoating and dirt (Note to self, never buy a car from a guy in Palmdale that lives on a dirt road ever again)

My TCI Rear supports and frame brackets are now back off and going for powder coating.

Haha. well good timing. Did you need to remove your bumpstops to get the frame saddle brackets far enough forward?

[DynoDon]

Haha. well good timing. Did you need to remove your bumpstops to get the frame saddle brackets far enough forward?
NO, I just didn't feel I needed the anymore with the Coil Overs having built in bumps and I need the tire clearance.
The measurements in the TCI Instruction were WRONG for the placement. If you move them forward to that position (the instructions) the frame bracket (U Channels) will NOT line up with the cradle!

[Bryce]

NO, I just didn't feel I needed the anymore with the Coil Overs having built in bumps and I need the tire clearance.
The measurements in the TCI Instruction were WRONG for the placement. If you move them forward to that position (the instructions) the frame bracket (U Channels) will NOT line up with the cradle!


Same here, I am going to run afcos with bump stops built in. I installed the cradle first then put the frame sadles in. My bump stops were in the wayand I had to move the the sadles forward another 1/2 inch. What year falcon are you building. I think they might be different. My measurement from the spring eye was 21.75" not 21.5". show some pics of your build.

[Bryce]

Here is the pics of the installed craddle. Tomorrow I will pull it out and chop it all up. I need to make a few mods to work with my 3-link design.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_101010_004-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575063)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_101010_003-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575065)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_101010_002-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575064)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_101010_005-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575067)

[DynoDon]

Mines a 63 Convertible. I think the back half of the Uni Body frame is the same though. The brackets butted right up to the bumpstops to be in position and the measurement that said 21 1/2 turned out to be 18"! Interestingly it was 21 1/2 to the one bolt hole
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/PICT00024-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/PICT00053-1.jpg

[Bjkadron]

Here is the pics of the installed craddle. Tomorrow I will pull it out and chop it all up. I need to make a few mods to work with my 3-link design.

Good to hear that I'm not the only one who buys perfectly good parts and cuts them up and changes them!

[Bryce]

Mines a 63 Convertible. I think the back half of the Uni Body frame is the same though. The brackets butted right up to the bumpstops to be in position and the measurement that said 21 1/2 turned out to be 18"! Interestingly it was 21 1/2 to the one bolt hole


Actually they look a little different to me. Your bump stop is a different shape and size than mine.

[Bryce]

Good to hear that I'm not the only one who buys perfectly good parts and cuts them up and changes them!


HAHA word!

[DynoDon]

[QUOTE=DynoDon;730830]Mines a 63 Convertible. I think the back half of the Uni Body frame is the same though. The brackets butted right up to the bumpstops to be in position and the measurement that said 21 1/2 turned out to be 18"! Interestingly it was 21 1/2 to the one bolt hole
QUOTE]

Actually they look a little different to me. Your bump stop is a different shape and size than mine.
Could be. Did your instructions say to put the frame bracket right up against them though? Mine did and that position was right, just the measurement from the old spring Eye was wrong.
All that ugly old undercoating is now gone as well and man was that a mess to remove. At least I have a lift so I was standing up, not laying on my back :)

[Bryce]

haha, your lucky to have a lift. I was up and down all day for the last 3 days. I think I did about 10,000 squats. HAHA.


It said put it all the way to the bump stop. BUt that was only 21 inches. I needed 21.5 inches. So the bumpstop had to go.

Luckily my car had no undercoating. Jsut a little in the wheelwells.

[Bjkadron]

haha, your lucky to have a lift. I was up and down all day for the last 3 days. I think I did about 10,000 squats. HAHA.


It said put it all the way to the bump stop. BUt that was only 21 inches. I needed 21.5 inches. So the bumpstop had to go.

Luckily my car had no undercoating. Jsut a little in the wheelwells.

Actually, undercoating is a two edged sword. It is a pain to take off.. But my car (either one of them actually) wouldn't be here without it.

[Bryce]

Actually, undercoating is a two edged sword. It is a pain to take off.. But my car (either one of them actually) wouldn't be here without it.

I was lucky I started with a 48K original mile california car. I bought it from the original owner.

[PhillipM]

So it looks like you cut off the upper 3rd link mout that you had previously installed?

[Bryce]

Nope. I am cutting the crossmember out. I will section out the middle between the two longitudal bars. Then my watts link cradle will mount to the crossmember. This will basically move the crossmember back about 4" and make room for the 3rd link bracket. Look back at the CAD file i made. The blue piece is the TCI cradle that shows the cut out.

I am working on some more CAD right now. So it will show it better.

[Bryce]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts4JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575427)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts5JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575428)

[carnalsupply]

Your ability to use a CAD program makes this entire process so much easier to understand: I REALLY do need to fire up my AutoCad and get to learning!

Beautiful work!

[Bryce]

My job has benefits. HAHA!

Yes, you need to use CAD it make it so much easier to visualize what my not fit or where improvements can be made. And you can get all the weights before you build it.

[Bjkadron]

Looks great! Are you connecting the watts link prop support anywhere else or just in those two spots? And why not slots instead of a bunch of different holes? just because that would be overkill?

[Bryce]

Yes, the watts cradle is attached to the floor. Its a structural part of the trunk floor.

well I bought the watts axle attach brackets, made for a panhard bar. The holes are really only for intial placement and dont need to be adjusted again. As long as the links are horizontal at some point during the travel. So if I change the bell crank height I do not need to adjust the watts link axle mount height.

[Bryce]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts6JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575464)

[Bryce]

I cut the center out of the TCI crossmember, it was nice .156" wall DOM. I got all my datum points laid out and measured yesterday. Since the rear end is currently in the location I want it (correct ride height and centered) I didn't want to change that. Next step is start cutting aluminum for the watts link cradle and bellcrank. This should start coming together quickly now.

[DynoDon]

It will be interesting to see how this arrangement weighs compared to the original.
When I took all the leaf spring stuff out of my falcon, I weighed everything, right down to nuts and bolts. I then weighed all the 4 link and coil over stuff, including nuts and bolts. After I drilled some extra holes in the TCI stuff, the weight came out about 1.5lbs heavier. Since I was using an old bathroom scale, I'm going to call it even. Now I want to figure out how much is Sprung weight vs unsprung on both setups.

[Bryce]

It will be interesting to see how this arrangement weighs compared to the original.
When I took all the leaf spring stuff out of my falcon, I weighed everything, right down to nuts and bolts. I then weighed all the 4 link and coil over stuff, including nuts and bolts. After I drilled some extra holes in the TCI stuff, the weight came out about 1.5lbs heavier. Since I was using an old bathroom scale, I'm going to call it even. Now I want to figure out how much is Sprung weight vs unsprung on both setups.

I plan on weighing everything as well. Most of the TCI plates can be drilled and lightened. I know the 65 falcon springs are wider, so I will be removing more weight than a 63 falcon. HAHA, FTW. My watts link may be heavier than the panhard but with the aluminum it may even back out.


What was your total weight?

[DynoDon]

I know the 65 falcon springs are wider, so I will be removing more weight than a 63 falcon. HAHA, FTW. What was your total weight?
That makes sense, the TCI kit came with spacers for the lower links at the original front Eye mounting, one 9/16" and one 3/4". For my car I only needed the 9/16" and then .140" on the outside.
IIRC the total weight was 70.5 lbs, I have the numbers at the shop.
now like say I have to figure out what is sprung and unsprung.

[Bryce]

I will be doing those same calculations. So we can compare later. That is a lot of weight coming out. I dont think my 3-link setup will weigh that much. I hope. :fingersx:

[DynoDon]

I will be doing those same calculations. So we can compare later. That is a lot of weight coming out. I dint think my 3-link setup will weigh that much. I hope. :fingersx:
I thought it was going to be lighter as well, but between the cross member, and the millions of nuts and bolts it added up. And I'm using Aluminum Coil Overs. I wouldn't surprised if yours if heavier with the Watt's set up and only 1 less upper link, which is probably more stout than the TCI ones.

[Bryce]

Maybe i should switch to titanium fasteners. And aluminum links for the control arms. My watts link rod ends and links are aluminum, afco aluminum shocks and their new light weight springs. Where else can i lose weight? Hmmm.....

[MichaelUser]

Just add more power... HA.

No dash pad and aluminum brackets for the seats.

The Watts looks SANO. Great job...

[Bryce]

Just add more power... HA.

No dash pad and aluminum brackets for the seats.

The Watts looks SANO. Great job...


I think thats a compliment about the dash and seats. Thanks!!

More power is always an option. But with this car more tire is not an option. Fitting the 275s with a 10.9" section width is going to be hard enough. So to be somewhat competitive I need to stay light. I was around 2690lbs with my lighter wheels. Now i will be around 2725lbs. hopefully I will take some weight off with the rear suspenion.

[Bryce]

I got my watts links rod ends. Aurora blue anodized aluminum. They look awesome and will look good with the AFCO blue anodized coilovers. All four under 1 lb

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03359-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/576011)


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03360-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/576012)

I am thinking I may switch all rod ends and link to aluminum. And keep the stronger chromoly ones for drag racing.

[Bryce]

These are AFCO's new light weight springs. http://www.afabcorp.com/AFCO_Dynatech_USbrake/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=A&Category_Code=ulw_springs

[Bjkadron]

Those are AWESOME rod-ends! I considered aluminum, but with my budget I only can afford one set, so they are steel.

[Bryce]

Those are AWESOME rod-ends! I considered aluminum, but with my budget I only can afford one set, so they are steel.

only 30 bucks each. I know it adds up. But my motto is do it once. My time is worth more. I would rather save for what I really want than buy something twice.

Plus these rodends are really top quality. The presicion is perfect, I definetly got what I paid for.

[bonecrrusher]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/mike_holmes_picture-1.jpg

As this guy says - do it right the first time! LOL!

[chunger]

Whoa - Sting has really been working out lately.

[DynoDon]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/mike_holmes_picture-1.jpg

As this guy says - do it right the first time! LOL!
That show cracks me up. i wonder how much stuff he says when he finds the crappy work they have to edit out for TV?

[Bjkadron]

only 30 bucks each. I know it adds up. But my motto is do it once. My time is worth more. I would rather save for what I really want than buy something twice.

Plus these rodends are really top quality. The precision is perfect, I definitely got what I paid for.

Yes, Same here, The ones I got are very nice, and they were a little over half that. The 7075-T6 ones were only about $2 more a piece. But for stuff like steering and suspension, I kinda like the steel. Am I right in thinking they have a better resistance to fatigue than the aluminum? That and the plasticity before breaking is a good safety net.

Are your Teflon sealed?

[Bryce]

Aluminum will work harden and will stretch more before failure. Its a more ductile material than steel. Mine are teflon sealed.

If Im not breaking....... Im not trying (or its too heavy). Haha.

[Bjkadron]

Ok.. I knew about the work hardening, I just wasn't sure about the ductility.

Therein lies the difference in our philosophies. If I break stuff.. I have a lot of downtime until I save my money back up. So I try to design out the week spots before I build it and leave myself a good safe margin for error.

[Bryce]

Ok.. I knew about the work hardening, I just wasn't sure about the ductility.

Therein lies the difference in our philosophies. If I break stuff.. I have a lot of downtime until I save my money back up. So I try to design out the week spots before I build it and leave myself a good safe margin for error.

Haha, I was kinda kidding. I hope I dont break anything and I have made sure If anything fails it wont be catostraphic.

[Bryce]

Crappy gloomy weather in San Diego has made this an unproductive weekend.

I ordered some more hardware for the watts cradle and I think I finalized my design. Then I had another thought. I might decide to make the axle mount of the watts link a single shear to make thing lighter. SO if i do that I might as well make the bell crank a single shear at the link attach point. Well more calculations will be done to determine if that is a viable solution.

[Bjkadron]

That is a lot more stress...

[Bryce]

That is a lot more stress...

Agreed, but you will not see any fastener failure at those loads in single shear. Assuming you use a good fastener. I am more worried about the moment applied to the mounting plate and bellcrank plate. This is what I will do calulations on.

[Bjkadron]

Agreed, but you will not see any fastener failure at those loads in single shear. Assuming you use a good fastener. I am more worried about the moment applied to the mounting plate and bellcrank plate. This is what I will do calulations on.

That is more what I was talking about too.

[Bryce]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts4JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575427)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts5JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575428)

Hmmmmm..................


So I just realized the current way I have my watts bell crank and cradle designed I will not be able to make quick changes on roll center height. The 3/4" bolt I am using as the pivot point of the bellcrank will not be able to be removed with the cradle installed. The bolt would hit the rear end. Well crap I guess I need to go back to the drawing board and redesign everything. Crap.

My original plan was to make the cradle threaded and have the bell crank in front of the cradle. Now I might need to make the bellcrank on the back side of the cradle. But that put the links about 8 inches behind the axle housing. I dont think I like that.

So maybe the solution is to make the bell crank threaded and run the bolt forward. This would require the pivot point to be on the cradle.

[GRNOVA]

I have mine on the front and it is adjustable.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Bjkadron]

Well, Look on the bright side. At least you noticed that now instead of when you were under the car at an autocross trying to change it!

[Twentyover]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts4JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575427)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts5JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/575428)

Hmmmmm..................


So I just realized the current way I have my watts bell crank and cradle designed I will not be able to make quick changes on roll center height. The 3/4" bolt I am using as the pivot point of the bellcrank will not be able to be removed with the cradle installed. The bolt would hit the rear end. Well crap I guess I need to go back to the drawing board and redesign everything. Crap.

My original plan was to make the cradle threaded and have the bell crank in front of the cradle. Now I might need to make the bellcrank on the back side of the cradle. But that put the links about 8 inches behind the axle housing. I dont think I like that.

So maybe the solution is to make the bell crank threaded and run the bolt forward. This would require the pivot point to be on the cradle.


Maybe a slot instead of distict holes, the have a set of staggered holes so you can walk the yellow backup plate (and the bellcrank) up and down vertically.

[Bryce]

I have mine on the front and it is adjustable.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I like the fays2 stuff. But with my setup I cant use his. I talked with him a few times and he a great guy with a great product. If you dont mind can you take a picture of the front side of the watts system. I am back to the drawing board on mine and need a little inspiration.

[Bryce]

Well, Look on the bright side. At least you noticed that now instead of when you were under the car at an autocross trying to change it!

HAHA, for sure! I hope I would have noticed it when I went to install it and said "F&%K".

[Bryce]

Maybe a slot instead of distict holes, the have a set of staggered holes so you can walk the yellow backup plate (and the bellcrank) up and down vertically.

That would work, but it doesnt solve my problem of having the bolt go in from the backside. I will draw something up tomorrow and think about this.

[Bryce]

So this is what I am thinking. I will make the bell crank threaded and tighten the bolt to the bell crank with a nut on the front side and the bolt coming from the back. The cradle will still have finite adjustment holes. But instead of being a 1/4" thick aluminum plate I will box in the cradle with a plate on the backside too. I would still have the 1" x 1" square tube as a picture frame. At the pivot mounts I will use bronze step bushings this will be the bearing surface for rotation and thrust. So the bolt will pivot with the bell crank. Does that make sense. It will work, I just need to figure out the stack up of all the pieces and make sure it will fit.

[Bryce]

Here is my solution, I will weld in a aluminum coupling nut into the bell crank. This will be a spacer for the rodends. The bolt will be locked to the bellcrank with a jam nut on the front side. The cradle will be boxed on the backside as well. Not shown in the pictures is the spacers welded to the plates. The bronze bushing will be pressed into these spacers. Here are some drawings of my idea.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts7JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/577060)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts8JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/577061)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts9JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/577062)

[Bryce]

Okay, so after more thought I decided that is a bad idea. I dont want to have the bell crank threaded. Since it will always be seeing a impulse force, it will always be stressing the threads and trying to loosen and tighten depending on the rotation. So I am back to the drawing board. I think the best option right now is to make the entire cradle quickly removeable, using studs or captive nuts. another option will be to remove the coilovers and dropping the rear end out so I can pull the bolt out the front. Yet another option that I have not figured out how to do; i would make the cradle to pieces so I could remove half of it easier. Well, I guess some brainstorm session tonight.

Mabybe if I start at the car long enough it will come to me.

[Bjkadron]

Well, you could go with the theory that if you think about something else then your answer will come to you. Then you could get some work done on my front suspension set-up while your brain works on it? No? haha! Worth a try!

How about pins that hold the whole cradle in? with double shear mounting points on either side? then just slide the pins out and drop the whole thing. it only has to absorb loads on one plane right? or does it have a non-planar moment force?

[Bryce]

HAHA, I know I need to start up again on your suspension geometry. From memory the stock is pretty damn good. A little more camber gain and dial out bumpsteer and you will be solid.

The watts link can see out of plan loads. (mainly lateral but some fore/aft). The for/aft is due to suspension travel that makes the watts links not parralel in plan view (looking from the top down). I wish I had CATIA on my home computer so I could be designing right now. Not just sketching on paper. Pins would work, I just want to make sure I dont have any slop in the setup.

[jtomas801]

Would it be possible to move the watts link cradle forward? Get it as close as possible to the rear end housing and put the bell crank on the back side of the cradle, like the lateral dynamics 3 link.

Jon

[Bjkadron]

Well, If you did two vertical pins, and two horizontal you would have all your degrees of freedom taken care of. And when you go to design the hole size tolerances you can just keep it on the tight side.

[Bryce]

Would it be possible to move the watts link cradle forward? Get it as close as possible to the rear end housing and put the bell crank on the back side of the cradle, like the lateral dynamics 3 link.

Jon

That would work; however, that would place the axle mounts for the watts link at 8" behind the axle centerline in plan view. I dont really like that large of a moment placed on those brackets. If I can reduce the bending moment then i can keep the overall weight down.

Thank you for the suggestion! I need the ideas coming.

[Bryce]

Well, If you did two vertical pins, and two horizontal you would have all your degrees of freedom taken care of. And when you go to design the hole size tolerances you can just keep it on the tight side.

Yes, that would work. I will think about where the split would be to accomadate a quick release.

Right now the plan is to go back to my original design and and just make the complete cradle unbolt.

[Bryce]

I solved the watts issues. I will draw it up tomorrow. The pivot bolt will be in double shear. Everything is more compact and better looking. The system is stronger and lighter. I am really excited about this final design. I have never seen a watts built this way. It results in 3 fasteners to be removed to make a roll center change. So nice a quick.

[Bryce]

Here is the new solution:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts10JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/577377)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_watts11JPG_Thumbnail1-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/577378)

[PhillipM]

Looks good Bryce... I likey.

[Bjkadron]

Bugger. That was my idea. Well, at least I know it was a good one haha! Looks great! Where are the three bolts?

I've been doing some modeling too. But so far all I have done is some bolts and a couple small pieces. Any chance I can get the files for the rod-ends from you?

[Bryce]

Benjamin,

First, mcmaster.com has step files and IGS files for rodends and lots of other stuff.

The 3 bolts are the three columns of holes you see from the back. I am putting removeable spacers there so I can stiffen up the plates, box them together.

[Bjkadron]

Benjamin,

First, mcmaster.com has step files and IGS files for rodends and lots of other stuff.

The 3 bolts are the three columns of holes you see from the back. I am putting removeable spacers there so I can stiffen up the plates, box them together.

Oh that is AWESOME! Thanks for the tip!

If you are going to do the removable spacers, why not just make the whole pivot/spacers a assembly, then just slide the whole thing up or down?

[Bryce]

Oh that is AWESOME! Thanks for the tip!

If you are going to do the removable spacers, why not just make the whole pivot/spacers a assembly, then just slide the whole thing up or down?

That would work but not very well for my plans. The bolt will thread into the back plate and be locked in with a nyloc nut. This bolt will be tighten to a small preload on the bell crank between the two plates. The bronze flanged bushing will pressed into the bell crank assembly. These will take rotation and thrust loads. The spacers are spreading the load over a larger area. There will also be steel plates bolted to the outsides of the vertical aluminum plates. I hope that made sense.

[Bryce]

I got all my drawings done so this weekend will be spent cutting aluminum for the watts cradle. Im getting closer!

[David Sloan]

I got all my drawings done so this weekend will be spent cutting aluminum for the watts cradle. Im getting closer!

Very Cool cant wait to see this come together!

[Bryce]

Very Cool cant wait to see this come together!

Thanks David.

So I realized my job spoiled me. I have a laser cutter at work and it cuts perfect and fast. When I am at home I have to do all my own layouts and cut it out with the bandsaw, then come back finish the edges. That is time consuming, HAHA. I got all the aluminum pieces cutout yesterday, today will be used to finish them and mock it, next week get it welded and installed in the car.

[Bjkadron]

Thanks David.

So I realized my job spoiled me. I have a laser cutter at work and it cuts perfect and fast. When I am at home I have to do all my own layouts and cut it out with the bandsaw, then come back finish the edges. That is time consuming, HAHA. I got all the aluminum pieces cutout yesterday, today will be used to finish them and mock it, next week get it welded and installed in the car.


You should get them to let you use the laser cutter afterhours!

[Bryce]

You should get them to let you use the laser cutter afterhours!

Yeah, I wish. But thats a definite NO!

[Bryce]

Here is the progress.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03371-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/579944)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03375-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/579945)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03376-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/579946)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03377-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/579947)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03381-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/579948)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03378-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/579950)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03379-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/579951)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03380-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/579952)

[Bjkadron]

Oh well...

Parts look good anyway! What did you do to get that finish? brush it?

Also what size is that aluminum?

[Bryce]

1/4" plate

[GrabberGT]

I love aluminum. Looks awesome.

[torino420]

nice work, can't wait to see more.

[MichaelUser]

Yeah, looking really good.
I love the idea.

[Bryce]

I love aluminum. Looks awesome.

Thanks Chris, its easier to work with doesnt need paint and looks great! Plus its lighter. Brushed aluminum has been the theme for the entire car.

[Bryce]

nice work, can't wait to see more.

Things should progress quickly after SEMA. I will talk with AFCO at SEMA and dial in the rear shocks and springs I will be ordering.

[Bryce]

Yeah, looking really good.
I love the idea.

Thanks Michael.

[carnalsupply]

Bryce, would you stop messing around and get your Amiga (loaded with your CAD software) loaded up in the Gremlin and move your butt to the bay area?
Oh yeah, bring your entire vendor contact list along too, might as well not get caught short if/when I need something :)

[Bryce]

Bob,

That might be fun! But I dont have a gremlin. I would be taking the 95 mustang. Take the 101 all the way. That would be a fun ride. Plus the wife wants to see SF.

[chunger]

See Bob - it's all coming together now! Next up - PT party at Bobs shop!

[LeighP]

Nice work on that watts link....trick stuff.

[454bug]

Great work on the fabricated parts Bryce!

It looks like you're on the downhill side of figuring everything out!

[Bryce]

Nice work on that watts link....trick stuff.

Thanks Leigh!

[Bryce]

Great work on the fabricated parts Bryce!

It looks like you're on the downhill side of figuring everything out!

Thanks Ray, I really hope so. I think I will be done in about a month. Then I have to take everything back out and paint it. I might drive it before i paint it tho, HAHA.

[MichaelUser]

Things should progress quickly after SEMA. I will talk with AFCO at SEMA and dial in the rear shocks and springs I will be ordering.

Make sure to by the aFe Power booth and say hi. Ask for MPQ.

[Bryce]

Make sure to by the aFe Power booth and say hi. Ask for MPQ.

Will do Michael. Where are you guys going to be located?

[csx4766]

Will be at SEMA also. really like what you are doing with the Falcon

[Bryce]

Will be at SEMA also. really like what you are doing with the Falcon

Thanks man.

[Bryce]

So I got a bunch more materials delivered last night. McMaster and the local metal place have been my friends recently. Hopefully the watts cradle will be mounted to the car this weekend. Then I cant start working on the chassis mount for the upper link. I still have not finalized my pick up points. I need to sit down with the excel spread sheet I design and determine mounting points.

[David Sloan]

McMaster is always my friend, i use to use them a lot when i was in industrial maintenance.
I got your PM an i think you have this thing fig. out I cant wait to see the finished product.
Thanks for sharing!

[MichaelUser]

Bryce

We are at booth number 23627 by the GM area in the performance section.

[Bryce]

Bryce

We are at booth number 23627 by the GM area in the performance section.

cool, thanks I will make sure I stop by.

[Bryce]

McMaster is always my friend, i use to use them a lot when i was in industrial maintenance.
I got your PM an i think you have this thing fig. out I cant wait to see the finished product.
Thanks for sharing!

Thanks, I cant wait to drive the car agian. I am going through withdrawls. Its been about 5 weeks since I took the wheels off.

[DynoDon]

Bryce

We are at booth number 23627 by the GM area in the performance section.

We're not too far from you, booth #22869 - PerTronix/Doug's Headers/Patriot Exhaust/JBA Perormance. I need to drop buy and see Jason Bruce at your booth - we used to work togehter at Hooker years ago.
Everyones welcome to say HI as well.

[Bryce]

Im getting excited about SEMA!

[MichaelUser]

Dyno Don

Jason and I will be there Saturday setting up.

[DynoDon]

Dyno Don

Jason and I will be there Saturday setting up.

Saturday? Boy you guys start early. We will be setting up the booth on Monday

[PhillipM]

Ugh we used to have a booth complicated enough to start on Saturday. This year we scaled waaaay back. Thank goodness. Don't have to set up till Monday now. YES!

See you there Bryce!

[Bryce]

Phillip,

what booth are you in?

[PhillipM]

Universal Laser Systems

Booth# 10333

[Bryce]

Universal Laser Systems

Booth# 10333

I will be there!

[Bryce]

Update:

Here are some more pictures of the watts cradle. The fab work is almost done. Just need to weld it up and bolt it into the car. The watts cradle is up side down and all the pieces are just sitting there.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03391-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/581042)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03390-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/581043)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03389-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/581044)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03387-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/581046)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03384-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/581047)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03382-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/581048)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/tn_full_DSC03386-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/581049)

[Bjkadron]

Awesome! It is coming together nicely!

[Bryce]

Awesome! It is coming together nicely!

Thanks Benjamin, SEMA will halt the build for a little while. I will hit it hard next weekend.

[Bryce]

I finished my rear suspension geometry.

Here are my pick up points.

Height from ground Distance forward from axle centerline
Centered upper link, axle 19.25" 0"
Centered upper link, chassis 18.0" 12"
Lower links, axle 9.375" 0"
Lower link, chassis 9.375" 22.5"

This set up results in 57% antisquat and a IC length of 81"
If I lower the axle side of the lower link 1.25" it will have 92% A/S and 63" IC
If I lower the axle side another 1.25" it will be 119% and 54" IC.

If I go back to a horizontal LCA and lower the UCA 1" then I will have 96% A/S and 49" IC and keep my zero degree roll axis angle.

So i plan on making the chassis mount of the UCA slotted in the vertical direction to dial in the A/S for handling (autocross) then adjust the LCA axle mount when I need to go drag racing.

The carboard is coming out so I can make templates for the chassis side UCA mounts.

[Bryce]

I got back from SEMA late last night. Wow what a good time. I have a lot more ideas and meet a lot of cool people! AFCO wants some pictures of my front suspension I have designed. Varishock has a reasonabley priced 4 way adjustable shock and an electronic controller for shock valving. Wilwood has a 11" internal drum parking brake that should fit inside the mustangs 14" wheels. Lots of awesome cars!

Now I have to start working on my car again.

[36couper]

The skill of the people on this board is incredible. Nice work.

[Bryce]

The skill of the people on this board is incredible. Nice work.

Thanks couper. Working on my car has taught me a lot. I think the working on my car with my dad paved my career path to become an engineer. The experience I gained fabricating and planning and designing this car has helped me with my current job. Now the training and experience I have gained from my job has allowed me to be more creative and a better car builder. Full circle!

[SVTforme]

Thanks couper. Working on my car has taught me a lot. I think the working on my car with my dad paved my career path to become an engineer. The experience I gained fabricating and planning and designing this car has helped me with my current job. Now the training and experience I have gained from my job has allowed me to be more creative and a better car builder. Full circle!

Sounds like my life story :).

Great job on the build - enjoy following another post from someone that thinks outside the box.

[DynoDon]

Hey Bryce, it was great to meet you at the booth. You caught me a little off guard initially and i didn't realize it was you, so if I seemed a little goofy about what you were first saying, that's why.
I was expecting someone older with a pocket protector, white collared shirt, and thick glasses.:attn:

Once I realized who you were, it was cool talking to you and your dad. Now get that Falcon ready for Del Mar so we can have the Falcon shoot out :yeah:

[Bryce]

Sounds like my life story :).

Great job on the build - enjoy following another post from someone that thinks outside the box.

Thanks craig,

Us ford guys have to stick together. HAHA. You have a great buildS going on as well.

[Bryce]

Hey Bryce, it was great to meet you at the booth. You caught me a little off guard initially and i didn't realize it was you, so if I seemed a little goofy about what you were first saying, that's why.
I was expecting someone older with a pocket protector, white collared shirt, and thick glasses.:attn:

Once I realized who you were, it was cool talking to you and your dad. Now get that Falcon ready for Del Mar so we can have the Falcon shoot out :yeah:


HAHA, i guess thats a compliment. Not all engineers wear thick glasses and pocket protectors. HAHA. I think I surprised a few other guys that I meet as SEMA.

Don is was great meeting you too.

[Bryce]

So I just noticed, if you sort project updates by views and replies I am on the first page of both. I guess a lot of people are following this build. Very cool. Thanks for following.

[Bjkadron]

I was expecting someone older with a pocket protector, white collared shirt, and thick glasses.:attn:


HAHAHA! That gives me great hope for the field I am going into!

[GRNOVA]

Bryce looking at you watts link design may have helped me with a design problem I am having with mine. Love following your build.

[Bryce]

HAHAHA! That gives me great hope for the field I am going into!

HAHA, sometimes the young engineers have some good ideas. We are still thinking outside the box.

[Bryce]

Bryce looking at you watts link design may have helped me with a design problem I am having with mine. Love following your build.

Cool, glad I can help! You have a great build going too.

[Bjkadron]

HAHA, sometimes the young engineers have some good ideas. We are still thinking outside the box.

Yeah I know.. It is just interesting that the stereotype is like that. Us young bucks have our work cut out for us to change that.

[Bryce]

Yeah I know.. It is just interesting that the stereotype is like that. Us young bucks have our work cut out for us to change that.

HAHA, very true.

[Bryce]

So I built some aluminum mock up brackets for the 3rd link chassis mount. I will bolt those in tonight and post some pictures. I made them out of .032" thick aluminum. which will temporarly hold the upper link to get some ideasabout clearances during susepnsion travel.

[Bryce]

So i got the mock up brackets installed, I even had my wife out in the garage holding the wrench on the inside of the car while I tightened the bolts from below. That was awesome. HAHA!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/tn_full_IMG_1423-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/582835)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/tn_full_IMG_1421-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/582836)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/tn_full_IMG_1426-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/582837)

Obviuosly the pinion snubber is in the way and needs to be removed. I also dont have the holes mounted for the link attachment.

[Bjkadron]

Wow! Those little Falcons are tight! My Duster has a good bit more space under there. Looks great!

Also congratulations on getting your wife out into the garage! Hopefully it will be all downhill for her from here on out!

[Bryce]

I am finally getting my tires mounted this saturday. Im driving up to driverzinc and getting them done. Thanks again Jon.

[BritishGreen68]

Did you make that say POS on purpose LOL??
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/tn_full_IMG_1423-1.jpg
I tried building my own rear suspension but I gave up, looks like your doing better then I did!

[Bryce]

Did you make that say POS on purpose LOL??

I tried building my own rear suspension but I gave up, looks like your doing better then I did!

HAHA. I just noticed that. It said Pass for passenger first. Then I drilled the hole haha. Thats funny, where is my acetone I need to fix that.

This will be my 3rd suspension I built myself. The first two were front suspensions.

[L & H Kustoms]

Bryce, Coming along nicely. Glad to finally meet you at SEMA. It's always nice to put a face to a username. But I was also wondering where your pocket protector was lol

[Bryce]

Bryce, Coming along nicely. Glad to finally meet you at SEMA. It's always nice to put a face to a username. But I was also wondering where your pocket protector was lol

Same here Luke, I am glad I ran into you.


Next time there is a protouring event I am going to wear a short sleeve white button up shirt with a pocket and pocket protector with a tire gauge and a slide rule. That way everyone can recognize me. HAHA.

Do I really seem that old and nerdy?

[GRNOVA]

Just how old are you?

[Bryce]

Just how old are you?

Im 26 with 2.5 years experience as an engineer and 21 years experience building cars with my dad. I was five years old when I started hanging out with him in the garage.

[MSTSFabbed]

Hahahaha there is a professor at my school that you just described to a T!!! Every day, straight out of the sixties! I'm a senior M.E. major so I can relate haha! :) They don't understand, our minds have been molded like this. We can't help it hahaha. Keep up the good fab and dirty hands!!

[Bryce]

Hahahaha there is a professor at my school that you just described to a T!!! Every day, straight out of the sixties! I'm a senior M.E. major so I can relate haha! :) They don't understand, our minds have been molded like this. We can't help it hahaha. Keep up the good fab and dirty hands!!

Does he have the 36" slide rule?

Thanks stephen, I will stay dirty my friends!

[Bryce]

Wow! Those little Falcons are tight! My Duster has a good bit more space under there. Looks great!

Also congratulations on getting your wife out into the garage! Hopefully it will be all downhill for her from here on out!

thanks benjamin, I think she may like to hangout with me more now! haha.

Yep the falcon is a small car very compact.

[johnny68]

hey Bryce what part of san Diego are you in im in Harbison canyon/ Alpine should get together for a breakfast run or ?
John

[Bryce]

hey Bryce what part of san Diego are you in im in Harbison canyon/ Alpine should get together for a breakfast run or ?
John

John,

I am up in rancho bernardo. I think I have seen your truck a few places around town. When I get my car back on its wheels a cruise would be cool. Otherwise, we should meet up at one of the local car shows.

[MSTSFabbed]

Probably! Black rim glasses, crew cut and all baby! I'm amazed at how many of the engineering student here (Univ. of Tennessee at Chattanooga) couldn't hand you a wrench if you asked for it. Its just sad. Were hoping to change that! :)

[Bryce]

Just cuz I love these wheels. Here are some more pics. Getting them mounted at driverzinc this saturday.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/tn_full_IMG_1428-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/583169)

Just to show the comparison.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/tn_full_IMG_1427-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/583170)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/tn_full_IMG_1429-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/583171)

[Bryce]

Probably! Black rim glasses, crew cut and all baby! I'm amazed at how many of the engineering student here (Univ. of Tennessee at Chattanooga) couldn't hand you a wrench if you asked for it. Its just sad. Were hoping to change that! :)

The same thing at UCSD. Not too many kids had any pratical knowledge. Are you part of the FSAE team?

[DynoDon]

[QUOTE=Bryce;741364]Just cuz I love these wheels. Here are some more pics. Getting them mounted at driverzinc this saturday.


Just to show the comparison.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/tn_full_IMG_1427-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/583170)

Wow, how did you get them to stick to the Wall? :rotfl:


What sizes are the tires?

[csx4766]

OK, I am dying to see pictures of the new wheel tire combo on the Falcon.

[Bjkadron]

Probably! Black rim glasses, crew cut and all baby! I'm amazed at how many of the engineering student here (Univ. of Tennessee at Chattanooga) couldn't hand you a wrench if you asked for it. Its just sad. Were hoping to change that! :)


The same thing at UCSD. Not too many kids had any pratical knowledge. Are you part of the FSAE team?

I know what you mean! Kinda sad actually. That is exactly why I am doing a 2yr Engineering Tech degree then transferring for my four year. It will end up taking about 5.5 years to get my bachelors but I'll know almost everything from the bottom up, And have all the CNC programming/QC skills. So Hopefully it works out well and is worth the extra trouble.

[johnny68]

hey bryce say hi to justin tomorrow up at drivers inc talked to him about rushforths for the nova great to talk with
john

[Matt@BOS]

Same here Luke, I am glad I ran into you.

Do I really seem that old and nerdy?

Old, no. Nerdy, yes.

I guess it all depends on one's definition of old, but I think of "old" people as generally being barely proficient with computers. They tend to design things with an old instrument called an eyecrometer, rather than use any precise measurements, let alone any kind of software. So, you definitely don't come across as old. Nerdy, on the other hand...

Anyway, I can't wait to see the Falcon drivable. You'll have to start hitting up some of the local events.

Matt

[Bryce]

[QUOTE=Bryce;741364]Just cuz I love these wheels. Here are some more pics. Getting them mounted at driverzinc this saturday.


Just to show the comparison.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/tn_full_IMG_1427-1.jpg (http://www.motortopia.com/photos/583170)

Wow, how did you get them to stick to the Wall? :rotfl:


What sizes are the tires?

Don, I told you they were sticky tires.

245/45/17 in the front
275/40/17 in the back

[Bryce]

OK, I am dying to see pictures of the new wheel tire combo on the Falcon.

Me too. I woke up at 4am today cuz I was so excited. And I am not even driving up until 1 this afternoon.

[Bryce]

I know what you mean! Kinda sad actually. That is exactly why I am doing a 2yr Engineering Tech degree then transferring for my four year. It will end up taking about 5.5 years to get my bachelors but I'll know almost everything from the bottom up, And have all the CNC programming/QC skills. So Hopefully it works out well and is worth the extra trouble.

Sounds like a good plan. With that experience you should get an interview anywhere.

At my college we had a class where we got use hand mills and lathes, with a few CNC stuff. That was my favorite class.

[Bryce]

Old, no. Nerdy, yes.

I guess it all depends on one's definition of old, but I think of "old" people as generally being barely proficient with computers. They tend to design things with an old instrument called an eyecrometer, rather than use any precise measurements, let alone any kind of software. So, you definitely don't come across as old. Nerdy, on the other hand...

Anyway, I can't wait to see the Falcon drivable. You'll have to start hitting up some of the local events.

Matt

Thanks Matt, you are a younger guy too right?

I guess I am an enginerd (engineer + nerd)

I cant wait to drive the falcon either. I plan on having the car ready by RTTC. and GG in april for sure. It might not be painted but it will have a finished suspension under it but it will have an automatic.

[Bryce]

hey bryce say hi to justin tomorrow up at drivers inc talked to him about rushforths for the nova great to talk with
john

Will do John. Also I get to see Jon's new nova. Its going to be back at his shop. What an awesome day.