One Piece wheels VS. Three Piece wheels.... Help Please

[Fesler built]

I own Fesler Built and we also have a wheel line built by Asanti wheels, I have 7 wheels in the Fesler line now but can change any of my centers to what Asanti wheels have so there are like over 60 wheels to choose from.

The three piece wheels are very strong, easy to take care of and clean up quick. I have been running them on my cars now for about 4 years and have not bent a wheel yet. I can get any color or finish you can think off. The great thing about the three piece wheels is if in a year or so you want to change them its just a matter of changing out the center and that only takes a week you dont have to order a complete new wheel and wait for ever to get them again. Or if for some reason you curb a wheel you can get the otter hoop fixed in a few days for a couple hundred bucks, not the cost of the wheel again and weeks to fix.

With that being said, how are some of the billet companies staying in business with how long they take to get people wheels? For instance I bought a set of one piece billet wheels (wont mention company) 19X10F & 19X12.5R and it took over 12 weeks to get them. Reason it takes them so long to do it is most of the companies have to send them out to go wide. I can do this same wheel for less money in a 3rd of the time. its all done in house so no down time waiting for someone.

So my questions to you guys is I want to figure out how to make the three piece stuff more of a first option for you guys. Most of the PT style cars are having a hard time getting into the three peice stuff. If you look at all the billet companies making wheels you can get into a three piece wheel for almost the same cost and if its a wide wheel they end up being cheaper and faster to get.

Most of the billet wheels out there today are soft, dent easy and a pain in the butt to keep clean not to mention they take months to get. No joke there

As for the three piece stuff you can pretty much do any offset, size and style you want depending on fitments like brakes and stuff. We do most of our cars with three piece wheels on them and we usually have the wheels with in three weeks.

I know I dont have the styles that everyone wants and that is not the reason for the post, I would like some input as to how to get the three piece stuff more popular with these guys. The prices are not that far off and the quality is 10 times better. Please help

[Vegas69]

It has to be price. I can't see any other reason not to go with a three piece wheel. As you mentioned I have already had to modify my rear wheels, and I will probably widen my fronts in the future. A last minute change to a different subframe allows me to run more rubber. I am glad I bought the three piece wheels.

[JV69z/28]

I'll agree with price also. When you want to go 18s or bigger, wider than 10s, and start customizing with brushed finishes, powder coating, ect the price gets crazy. If you have the funds to build a 100K+ car to spend 5K - 7K or more for wheels and tires is no big deal but if you're building on a budget of 35K - 50K car you have to think long and hard before spending more than 10% on rolling stock. I'll be the 1st to realize there is a whole lot of people out there with big money and that's great but they can buy anything they want. I don't think the "masses" even consider the high end wheels because they are just out of reach for the regular 15K to 30K nothing special muscle car/hot rod guy. I think it's like any other high end item - if more people could afford them the sales volume would be higher. Just MHO I'm sure others wil differ.

[Boesch]

It's price. The price of three piece wheel parts and the extra assembly time drives the price out of reach for most people. Let's not forget the middle man factor. If you're not buying factory direct...that guy in the middle is tacking on his share of profit. That's why Intro doesn't have any wheel dealers. As far as time to deliver wheels goes, we are generally at about 4-5 weeks of build time, and if you talk to most of our customers they'll say they actually got their wheels a bit faster than that.

Just kinda curious as to why you say this statement:
"Most of the billet wheels out there today are soft, dent easy and a pain in the butt to keep clean..."
Our two and three piece billet wheels are all made from Aircraft grade forged aluminum. A two piece wheel isn't any softer and doesn't dent any easier than a three piece wheel. And if we're going to talk about hard to clean, let's talk about cleaning rivets on a three piece wheel.

[aray327]

Price, price, price. Did I mention its the price? I believe wheel companies believe there is no other option and we should be happy to spend $3,000+ on a set of wheels. Then you consider powder coating, why would a wheel company charge me $300 for something I can get done for $100? Chrome, its the same thing. I'm all for making money and don't suggest you lose your shirt, but have you ever heard of supply and demand, when the price goes down the demand goes up! Give me a good product at a reasonable price and I'm there.

[buickfunnycar.com]

Price, price, price. Did I mention its the price? I believe wheel companies believe there is no other option and we should be happy to spend $3,000+ on a set of wheels. Then you consider powder coating, why would a wheel company charge me $300 for something I can get done for $100? Chrome, its the same thing. I'm all for making money and don't suggest you loose your shirt, but have you ever heard of supply and demand, when the price goes down the demand goes up! Give me a good product at a reasonable price and I'm there.

well stated...

[PRRC]

The statment about dealing direct is just crap!! We save countless customers money every day. The reason you dont have dealers is you dont want them. We can sell the wheel lines we carry as low or lower than a set of Intros!
Tim

It's price. The price of three piece wheel parts and the extra assembly time drives the price out of reach for most people. Let's not forget the middle man factor. If you're not buying factory direct...that guy in the middle is tacking on his share of profit. That's why Intro doesn't have any wheel dealers. As far as time to deliver wheels goes, we are generally at about 4-5 weeks of build time, and if you talk to most of our customers they'll say they actually got their wheels a bit faster than that.

Just kinda curious as to why you say this statement:
"Most of the billet wheels out there today are soft, dent easy and a pain in the butt to keep clean..."
Our two and three piece billet wheels are all made from Aircraft grade forged aluminum. A two piece wheel isn't any softer and doesn't dent any easier than a three piece wheel. And if we're going to talk about hard to clean, let's talk about cleaning rivets on a three piece wheel.

[The WidowMaker]

it seems today that instead of the manufactures selling for a lower price when there is no middle man, they instead sell the item for the same price as everyone else and just make more profit. the market is driven by the consumer, and sometimes the consumer will pay more because they think they are getting more.

since i really dont have any experience, can someone explain to me why a 3 piece or even a 2 piece is more expensive than a 1 piece? it seems to me that a one piece uses and wastes more metal and would require more machining and therefore be more expensive.

i do understand that a 3 piece can save some money when sizes are choosen incorrectly, but how much is charged per wheel to make them right? what is the cost difference btwn a 2 and 3 piece wheel on the average?

my theory, choose the right wheels the first time and avoid having to rebuy or rework.

[vp23271]

since i really dont have any experience, can someone explain to me why a 3 piece or even a 2 piece is more expensive than a 1 piece? it seems to me that a one piece uses and wastes more metal and would require more machining and therefore be more expensive.

I agree 100% with 430hp70

I have owned both 1 piece and 3 piece rims and like both.

My choice comes down to price, style and strength (mfg process).

As far as keeping wheels clean, a 3 piece with exposed hardware is more time consuming to keep clean. Curb rash is easier to remedy with a 3 piece, but many have a hollow lip. A big enuf pot hole with a 35 series tire is gonna do some damage no mater if it's a 1 piece or 3 piece.

A 1 piece starts with a much larger "hunk" of metal and spend more time on the CNC machine to remove all this metal. The centers on a 3 piece are much shallower and have less steps to mfg and spend less time on the CNC machine.

Why don't the 3 piece wheels reflect a larger price difference (lower)?

Strength and quality is a whole different issue. Each wheel mfg needs to be held to is't own standards. Not all 3 piece wheels are the same and neither are 1 piece.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Fesler summed it up pretty well but may not have been clear enough for some. So at the risk of being a echo............

A few of the benefits are with a 3 piece wheels are:

Stonger and lighter shells. Not all, but most of the better 3 piece wheels outer shells are often made of stronger and lighter material like 6061-T6 aluminum, Lighter is better!

Forged centers: The centers of most 3 piece wheeels are forged meaning they are stronger instead of machined billet, and the centers can be lighter because more material can be removed and still be strong, Lighter is better!

Repair. When you get up into larger diameter wheels and lower profile tires, your exposing the rim to more potential for damage. Pot holes are hell on low profile large diamter wheel / tire combos. A 3 piece 6061-T6 shell will be a lot more resistant to bending and if it does get bent, you send it in have a shell changed and your rolling.

Wide wheels: 18" and 19" drums, the outer shell (drum), are made in sizes up to 10" width only, so if doing a 12" (2) piece welded wheel, instead of having a 2 piece welded wheel (RE: center welded into a drum), you end up with a sliced shell with a 2" band added to it, so you have a welded in center and 2 ring welds around the drum. Not the hot set up! My experiance trying to balacne multi welded 12" wheels with 335s has not been that the welded wheels do not balance as good as 3 piece wheels.

Cost: If your doing a 12" wheel, figure on a $400 to $500 per wheel fee for the added strap of widening material. And if you add the $1000 to the cost of the wheels, you will usually find yourself within striking difference of a racing quality 3 piece wheel. I am not into up selling products, but when I have a customer doing 12" wheels, I usually highly suggest speding the extra change for the 3 piece.

Changes: And as Fesler said, making changes to the wheels is simple. Most of us have short attention spans and style change. In a couple days I will post up some pictures of Michaels Monte Carlo SS we finished up last year at this time. We removed the centers from his wheels, striped the chrome from the centers for $75 and painted the centers magic black to match the top color on the car. After one year, we totally changed the look of the car for a net cost of a few hundred dollars.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Let's not forget the middle man factor. If you're not buying factory direct...that guy in the middle is tacking on his share of profit. That's why Intro doesn't have any wheel dealers.

I have no problem with your product and am not starting a pissing match, but the above stament is just wrong. Every wheel company I deal with sells the wheels for a suggested retail which is more then their dealers sell for, that is industry standard. This is how any manufacturer worth it's weight protects their dealers. If the manfacturer unders sells their dealers, then it is useless to have dealers. I have found your comparable wheels to be the same or more $$$$ then wheels we sell, apples to apples.

Just kinda curious as to why you say this statement:
"Most of the billet wheels out there today are soft, dent easy and a pain in the butt to keep clean..."
Our two and three piece billet wheels are all made from Aircraft grade forged aluminum. A two piece wheel isn't any softer and doesn't dent any easier than a three piece wheel.

So are your 3 piece wheels built with 6061-T6 shells like Forgeline, Fiske, etc? If so does this mean you use 6061-T6 drums on your welded 2 piece wheels? if your not using 6061T6 shells, they are not as strong.

[The WidowMaker]

prodigy - thanks for that help, but a few more questions. you said the billet hoops were strong and light, but then stated that the forged centers were strong and light. which is stronger and lighter; billet or forged? if forged is both stronger and lighter, does anyone make a fully forged 3 piece wheel?

what about wheels under 10"? that was a very good argument for 12's, but what about the smaller wheels?

the difference btwn a 2 piece and 3 piece from the same company is roughly $400 per wheel. how is that justified? where is all of my extra money going?

thanks, Tim

[Fesler built]

I guess this was a good thing to post up here to inform people of wheels.

Well said ProdigyCustoms, my wheels are made from Asanti and they use the highest quality metals you can buy on every product they sale. They are a completly forged wheel all parts so they are super strong.

I run 25 series tires on Tahoes and Luxurys sedans and have not bent a wheel yet and they weight more than most of the cars on this site with billet wheels. That alone proves how strong our wheels are.

As for the cleaning statment from Boesch well he has a point the rivets can be a pain but if you blow them out or run around the block real quick to get the water out you just dry and they look new. A polished billet wheel is a pain in the butt to keep clean and you have to polishe them a few times a year.

I can do a 18X8 - 18X12, 19X8 - 19X12, 20X12 and so on 3 piece wheel with a powdercoated center (black, silver or gun metal) standard for about $3600-$4000 depending on finish a set under 20-inch, what is Budnik, Intro, Billet Specialties, Boze and so on charge for that same wheel and why do they charge more to do that finish. How about Fikse and HRE what are they charging.

If you want to go to a strong three piece wheel that will out last a one piece wheel PM me for a price, I might be able to get close to what you are going to pay for the other brands.

here are a few samples of cars with low profile tires

25 series tires
http://www.feslerbuilt.com/2007LexusLS460L.htm

http://www.feslerbuilt.com/2004Chevy1500.htm

30 Series tires
http://www.feslerbuilt.com/1969CAMAROBLK.htm

http://www.feslerbuilt.com/1966MustangGT.htm

http://www.feslerbuilt.com/1949MERC.htm

http://www.feslerbuilt.com/1969redcamaro.htm

[The WidowMaker]

how is a forged aluminum wheel any easier to clean than a billet wheel?

i guess i was always misinformed, because i thought the billet were better than the forged. i always thought that billet metal, whether steel, alum, etc..., was stronger than forged. i understand the process, but i didnt think the forging was what made metal strong. actually i thought forging weakened the metal and it needed to be tempered to bring it back to the desired properties (strength vs hardness ). billet metal has the proper grain structure, which i though led to strength

Tim

[Steve1968LS2]

Most manufacturers don't want to sell direct, they would much rather have a dealer network to sell and avoid the hassles.

For this reason they typically sell stuff at an MSRP price which is higher than you can get at a dealer. Go look at the prices at a company like COMP Cams and they shop around and you will see what I mean. It's the same thing as most wheel companies.

Billet is an often misused term. I only means that the item was made out of one single piece of metal. It has nothing to do with strength, except to say that it's not a "cast" wheel. The term "forged" does have strength implied, but it's important to see what the wheel is forged from in regards to the metal used. Not all "forged" wheels are created equal.

Personally, I change offsets so much that, for me, a three-piece wheel only makes sense. For example I will be sending in my 18x9 fronts soon to have them made into 18x10s. This means they only have to swap out the inner hoops. Sure cheaper than buying a whole new wheel.

[Fesler built]

Its the finish, all or our wheel lips are chrome not polished so they are a quick clean. no polishing

fesler - thanks for that explanation. those are some good prices on 3 piece wheels.

how is a forged aluminum wheel any easier to clean than a billet wheel?

i guess i was always misinformed, because i thought the billet were better than the forged. i always thought that billet metal, whether steel, alum, etc..., was stronger than forged. i understand the process, but i didnt think the forging was what made metal strong. actually i thought forging weakened the metal and it needed to be tempered to bring it back to the desired properties (strength vs hardness ). billet metal has the proper grain structure, which i though led to strength

Tim

[The WidowMaker]

thanks guys, that explains most of it.

steve - you have one bad ass car, but one bad ass budget as well. i do see how the 3 piece works for you, but why are you going to a 10"? i saw your car at the goodguys show and it looked perfect the way it was.

fesler - how does your chrome hold up compared to the polished? i know the polished needs to be polished, but ive had bad experiences with chrome wheels. maybe its just quality issues.

[Steve1968LS2]

Because there's too big of a differential between the 255 fronts and the 335 rears I'm running. Generally you want the rears just a touch bigger than the fronts (example, 285 and 315)

The smaller fronts contribute to understeer. A little more front tire will help and will the give the car a more balanced look.

The three piecer WC3s I run cost well under $1000 a wheel.. not cheap but not an insane price for the quality.

[TonyL]

Did anyone say it's the cost of three piece wheels yet? For me, Three piece wheels are the "brass ring" of wheels. Most choose one piece cast wheels because they are around 800 to 1200 a set. As I've said before, I'd run three piece wheels if I could afford them. I think we all would.

[Boesch]

So are your 3 piece wheels built with 6061-T6 shells like Forgeline, Fiske, etc? If so does this mean you use 6061-T6 drums on your welded 2 piece wheels? if your not using 6061T6 shells, they are not as strong.

Are you aware of how many companies that there are that make the outer hoops? Ever wonder why no billet wheel company offers a 12" wide 18" two piece wheel? We all buy our hoops from the same companies.