Pro-Touring Steering Gear Box

[MEvinson]

Hi All,

I have a 1970 Camaro. I am looking at a couple of different pro touring gear boxes. I am looking at a PSC 12.7:1 steering gear box or the DSE 12.7:1 steering gear box. Does have any of you used these? What are your thoughts on their performance? Are there better options?

Thanks

[79T/Aman]

we've sold both the DSE used to be a Delphi box but no longer available, I just looked up the new DSE and at that price they are imports, the PSC is the only US made box but it's $990 but it's the best box you can get.

[dhutton]

What about Turn One? They sell a quality steering gear.

Edit: Never mind they are out of stock.

Don

[dhutton]

Is this what has become of DSE under Holley? Selling offshore steering boxes?

Don

[Just 1 More]

I have the PCS 12.7 box and i'm very happy with it. I want a Turn One box but like Don said, out of stock and have been for almost 2 years

[MEvinson]

we've sold both the DSE used to be a Delphi box but no longer available, I just looked up the new DSE and at that price they are imports, the PSC is the only US made box but it's $990 but it's the best box you can get.

Thanks for the response. It sounds like the the PSC are the best on the market. I will have to save a little bit more to get one. I have looked at you stuff at pro touring f body before and there are a few items I am interested in. I will have to give you a call some time.

[79T/Aman]

Thanks for the response. It sounds like the the PSC are the best on the market. I will have to save a little bit more to get one. I have looked at you stuff at pro touring f body before and there are a few items I am interested in. I will have to give you a call some time.

Thank you sir.

[hp jnkey]

Get a box from 88-92 Camaro or Firebird with the FE2 option.
These have 12.7:1 ratio and a tight .210 Tee Bar, which is pretty stiff, I have one.

The standard Gen 3 Camaro has similar box with with .190 Torsion Bar, might like this better, its not as stiff.
I picked one from wrecker for 65.00

I got all this info from the tech at Turn One a few years ago.

[TheBandit]

I got my box from Sweet Manufacturing. You can choose the ratio and t-bar size you want. The t-bar determines the ratio of steering assist you get; smaller t-bars like 0.165 will give you pinky steering with little or no feedback while larger t-bars like .200-.235 will give you heavier steering with more feedback. Most of the "pro touring" boxes I've seen (DSE, Turn One) use a .210 t-bar. In my car, I have a very heavy .235 t-bar with a 12.7:1 ratio. I absolutely love the heavy box on the road and autocross, but it feels almost like manual steering in parking lot situations and it definitely takes more arm effort in general. Parking lot maneuverability is going to depend also on tire size, caster, and scrub. It's worth noting I only have 245 width tires up front and run about 7deg of caster. If you run wider tires, you may want to error to a smaller t-bar. In terms of ratio, the 12.7 ratio was an improvement at autocross; I found myself shuffling hands less, but on the street it is not noticeable.

Here are videos with my initial driving impressions of the stock box vs. the heavy box. Sorry they aren't edited down more - they are a little on the long side.

Stock box
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrDgfPRVsus

12.7:1 0.235 t-bar box
https://youtu.be/FICvmAFrpSY

[MEvinson]

I got my box from Sweet Manufacturing. You can choose the ratio and t-bar size you want. The t-bar determines the ratio of steering assist you get; smaller t-bars like 0.165 will give you pinky steering with little or no feedback while larger t-bars like .200-.235 will give you heavier steering with more feedback. Most of the "pro touring" boxes I've seen (DSE, Turn One) use a .210 t-bar. In my car, I have a very heavy .235 t-bar with a 12.7:1 ratio. I absolutely love the heavy box on the road and autocross, but it feels almost like manual steering in parking lot situations and it definitely takes more arm effort in general. Parking lot maneuverability is going to depend also on tire size, caster, and scrub. It's worth noting I only have 245 width tires up front and run about 7deg of caster. If you run wider tires, you may want to error to a smaller t-bar. In terms of ratio, the 12.7 ratio was an improvement at autocross; I found myself shuffling hands less, but on the street it is not noticeable.

Here are videos with my initial driving impressions of the stock box vs. the heavy box. Sorry they aren't edited down more - they are a little on the long side.

Stock box
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrDgfPRVsus

12.7:1 0.235 t-bar box
https://youtu.be/FICvmAFrpSY

Thank you for the info and the videos. Very helpful!

[Sleeper68]

Hi All,

I have a 1970 Camaro. I am looking at a couple of different pro touring gear boxes. I am looking at a PSC 12.7:1 steering gear box or the DSE 12.7:1 steering gear box. Does have any of you used these? What are your thoughts on their performance? Are there better options?

Thanks

I have not used either of those brands, but I have run a factory Delphi 670 (no longer available) and a Lee Power Steering 800. The Lee boxes are factory refurbished from real saginaw cases. They are awesome and ship fast. I went with a 45in-lb torsion bar, standard is 35in-lb. Lee is worth a look in my opinion.

[jvmagic32]

Get a box from 88-92 Camaro or Firebird with the FE2 option.
These have 12.7:1 ratio and a tight .210 Tee Bar, which is pretty stiff, I have one.

The standard Gen 3 Camaro has similar box with with .190 Torsion Bar, might like this better, its not as stiff.
I picked one from wrecker for 65.00

I got all this info from the tech at Turn One a few years ago.

Hi, do these require any modifications? I'd love to replace my non-ws6 box.
Thanks

[hp jnkey]

I don't believe there are any other modifications required, mine bolted right up
But these boxes have a poor turning radius compared to the stock box.
Might want to check this out before you pull the trigger.
I think the Gen 3 box is 64*only.
I think the 84-88 Monte Carlo SS had similar box but with better radius.

[hp jnkey]

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0901-gm-steering-box-upgrade/

[SD455]

I used the JGC box in my car and was happy with it, especially considering how available they were at the time and the $125 CAD price tag. I think a brand new one is nice, but to me it wasn't worth the extra $$. I have never personally seen a box failure.

https://www.chevelles.com/threads/jgc-steering-box-conversion-writeup-w-pics.317222/

[67cougnut]

Came to revive this thread

I’m In the process of doing a suspension swap and adding a lot of Ridetech components to my 65 A-body. The CPP box that was on the car when I got it has always leaked and it’s time to go. This started me on the path of seeking out a replacement steering gear.

Trying to keep this as short as as I possibly can I came up with the following:

CPP, Borgeson, DSE are offshore Boxes in some way, they might be assembled here or not, but parts or the whole box may have arrived courtesy of a long boat ride.

Turnone- is no longer in the business of building a PT box. Lack of quality parts availability, made in the USA, etc. took them out of the picture. Jeff over there had some great ideas and will still rebuild a box for you with some custom settings but you need to source the core and make sure it’s a good one! He. Is. A. Wealth. of. knowledge.

Lee- most of you know Tom is gone, but this place was my front runner for the few weeks while I was sorting out where/which box to buy. The rebuild process is extensive over there, but in the end I was still getting a high end rebuilt box for well over $1000.00 with very few new parts which I’m sure would be great box with the “Lee feel” but $1300 ish out the door plus additional upgrades for a rebuild my wallet wasn’t getting the “feel” for a rebuilt box making it a tough pill to swallow. Thier offering was a GM 800 series steering gear. Side note the old plating that came on Lee boxes is not available anymore due to California regulations, they did have a different gold plating that you could pay extra for referred to as “Trump Faucets” lol

SRI racing- offered used Sweet 600 series boxes that would retail for $1800 plus new and were being sold for in the $900 range with really heavy T-bars. So you’re getting a used race box that would need to be modified for my liking.

Lastly I called Sweets MFG who I ultimately ordered from. They offered a GM 700 series box with no stops to give me full range of pitman arm travel, all the parts used inside are new U.S. made parts, typically the box core is a used unit and inspected then conditioned for rebuild but as luck would have it they had a handful of new castings still on the shelf that I could upgrade to for less than an additional 100 bucks! So a new U.S. casting was added to the invoice. After describing the feel I wanted a .200 T-bar was recommended to give me a newer GM sports car feel with the use of their spool valve. I believe all said and done I’m a drop under $900 to my door. Their box comes plated in a silver color which I’m not my first color choice but it’s supposed to be very durable against the elements and they use a billet cap to dress it up. A few days after placing the order a New KRC power steering pump surfaced nearby and I was able to scoop that up to help with the steering duties of the new box.

I explored the other options, Gbody rebuilt, used, then grand Cherokee rebuilt or used. Too many issues in reviews & comments kept surfacing and I don’t want to deal with any potential problems and have to tear back into it.

Like most parts now it seemed finding quality stuff in this department was a chore. Customer service was a little rough with some places I called.

I Just wanted to share, so this may help the next poor soul who treks down this path as most of the stuff I had found was extremely dated on steering gear box purchases and swaps.

[dontlifttoshift]

I have posted this before.

I had the DSE Delphi box, then the Borgeson 800130 delphi clone, and back to the DSE Delphi box on the same car for extended periods of time. Normal driving, track days, and autocross. Nobody on this forum would be able to tell the difference.

[rlovell383]

I installed a new DSE box into my 67 Camaro a few months ago and I'm thrilled with it. It's replacing an old leaky IROC box I rebuilt myself many years ago, with a heavy Lee T-bar.
It's extremely tight and responsive, nice weight and feel.

[1973 STEP A SIDE]

My steering pump or my steering box went out on me this weekend.

Puked out fluided all over my engine bay. It appears that it came out the cap.

What fluid that was still in the box has glitter in it.

So I do believe that I should just replace the hole system.

So qustion is do I go with PCS or Sweets ?