Ls3 tick

[Sinnister69]

Hey guys brand new crate ls3 holley terminator x. Tuned by Andrew. Everything was great until i started break in procedure according to gm paperwork. Holding at 2000 rpm it developed a ticking noise

It has tsp stage 3 cam with springs and 7.4” pushrods.
Also oil pressure while idling goes from 28-29 psi cold to about 24 psi when at operating temp.
I am using driven BR30 oil for break in
Any input will be greatly appreciated

https://youtube.com/shorts/WV5muNZxOAg?feature=share

[65 drop top]

Do not run it again, any potential metal shavings will destroy it. But first, you confirmed that it’s not an exhaust leak? If it’s not, I would start by checking rocker arms. Find a loose one, then diagnose why. To me, it didn’t sound too deep down, like a rod knock. Also some like to cut open the used oil filter to make sure there are no metal shavings, although I think you may see some normally upon break-in.

[dhutton]

See if CamaroAJ will listen to it. He’s a world class GM tech and he’s probably heard that before.

Don

[Sinnister69]

Not an exhaust leak i will message AJ but it seems he hasnt been active in a few months

[icemanrd19]

Whenever I switched to a stage 2 tsp, dual valve springs 660 I think and push rods mine did the same thing. Still does 20,000 miles later and runs solid. Your fine

[dhutton]

Did you measure piston to valve clearance when you installed that cam? Who spec’d the pushrod length? Did you check the wipe?

High lift LS camshafts do have a sort of sewing machine sound to them. Hard for me to tell if that’s what you have in your recording.

Don

[Bad Bowtie]

Ain't no way that's normal :hmm::injured: The tick sounds worse as you hold rpm's on it and the oil pressure seems low as well. I would say off with the valve covers and start there.

BB

[Sinnister69]

Gonna do that this week

[Sinnister69]

When i first started car it was fine gave it a few revs and nothing shut it off then a few min later started it again and it was quiet then the ticking started as i gradually increased rpms
Shut it off then started it again a few min later and no ticking until i revved it again.
Seems intermittent. But is it possible the stock lifters cant handle the springs?

[Sinnister69]

Is this a sign of a bad lifter, low oil pressure, or just bleed down from sitting gor a few days?

https://youtube.com/shorts/D1ptnYOJb8s?feature=share

[Hotwire]

That sir is a sign of a bad lifter. With that much movement I'd take a guess that you lost the roller. If it's an AFM engine then you just have a collapsed afm lifter. But that looks middle of driver's side? So most likely not AFM.

If you have a bore scope pull the rocker and pushrod, then look down into the pushrod hole. The pushrod cup should be pushed up against the retainer clip.

[Sinnister69]

Thank you when i was pushing down it was still springing back up so the lifter plunger seems ok. This is a brand new crate motor this was probably the 4th time it was fired up. Car is not ready to be driven

[icemanrd19]

actually after listening to that again yours is much worse. Mine doesn’t sound like that.


Whenever I switched to a stage 2 tsp, dual valve springs 660 I think and push rods mine did the same thing. Still does 20,000 miles later and runs solid. Your fine

[Hotwire]

Unless it has some aftermarket lifters in it, that isn't normal. Factory lifters are usually pretty solid. That's just one of the lifters that's loose, correct? All the others are solid feeling?

[Sinnister69]

They are all tight down in the safdle it isnt a loose bolt issue. Some i cant push others i can at varying amounts. Im guessing the lifters are just bleeding down

I did notice black marks underneath by the header collector i have the exhaust rigged for tuning purposes only. Could that make a tick noise or is it too far down 187688187689

[dhutton]

Pretty sure your lifters aren’t bleeding down. They should have a preload on them, they should not be loose....

Don

[protour_chevelle]

did the cam come pre installed? Id unbolt the rocker and look at the push rod, see if theres any damage to it? Im wondering if the push rod wasn't seated and it bent the push rod/damage the lifter.

[Sinnister69]

did the cam come pre installed? Id unbolt the rocker and look at the push rod, see if theres any damage to it? Im wondering if the push rod wasn't seated and it bent the push rod/damage the lifter.

No i did the work new springs upgraded rocker trunions everything was meticulously put together

The exhaust pipe is pretty stiff. U can see i used safety wire to tie it up and with the cam the engine rocks alot while idling. Maybe the tick is coming from the header collector that may have worked loose
I will see on saturday

[protour_chevelle]

No i did the work new springs upgraded rocker trunions everything was meticulously put together

The exhaust pipe is pretty stiff. U can see i used safety wire to tie it up and with the cam the engine rocks alot while idling. Maybe the tick is coming from the header collector that may have worked loose
I will see on saturday
Sounds internal to me and that rocker suggest the head has to come off and its lifter related.

[dhutton]

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/tech-tip-checking-setting-lifter-preload-ls-engine/

[Sinnister69]

I also didnt hear it when i pulled the valve covers

[Hotwire]

Considering you can easily push the lifter down with a finger, your engine is missing, and you can clearly hear its internal mechanical noise, it's a lifter man, not exhaust.

Trust me, was just in your shoes. Had 14 lifters that would support my weight and 2 that compressed with a screwdriver. I couldn't move the pushrod cup with my finger at all.

https://flic.kr/p/2kV3vxq

Stop by any parts store you want, ask to examine a lifter for your car and feel how tight the spring is in the push rod cup..

[protour_chevelle]

Considering you can easily push the lifter down with a finger, your engine is missing, and you can clearly hear its internal mechanical noise, it's a lifter man, not exhaust.

Trust me, was just in your shoes. Had 14 lifters that would support my weight and 2 that compressed with a screwdriver. I couldn't move the pushrod cup with my finger at all.

https://flic.kr/p/2kV3vxq

Stop by any parts store you want, ask to examine a lifter for your car and feel how tight the spring is in the push rod cup..

I agree with you 100%

[Sinnister69]

Does the ls3 have all equal length head bolts? Im looking at arp head bolts and there are a few different sets

[Hotwire]

Anything after 2004 has equal length.

[Sinnister69]

Anything after 2004 has equal length.

Thank you i found them

[Sinnister69]

Im guessing the lifters faiked because they couldnt handle the 400+lb open pressure springs?

[protour_chevelle]

Im guessing the lifters faiked because they couldnt handle the 400+lb open pressure springs?

What are the cam specs? Guys are putting grossly oversized cams into literally stock 4.8/5.3/6.0 trucks with just springs and pushrods and spinning them to the moon with zero issues.

I think you just had a bunk lifter to start with.

[Sinnister69]

Its a texas speed stage 3 with 111 lsa
Dont know the rest off hand but i put pac dual springs that have 400lb open pressure

[dhutton]

https://www.texas-speed.com/p-5762-tsp-stage-3-ls3-na-camshaft.aspx

[Hotwire]

Im guessing the lifters faiked because they couldnt handle the 400+lb open pressure springs?

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/101521-what-spring-pressure-does-stock-lifter-fail.html

What I found looking. I'm right on the edge with my single PAC1218 springs.

That cam is going to beat the hell out of your valveguides, that's a LOT of lift. I would say contact TSP and see what they would do to make your valvetrain last, but unless you own a racetrack or youtube channel you won't get a reply from them.

[Sinnister69]

I may just downgrade to a gm hotcam lol

[Sinnister69]

Considering you can easily push the lifter down with a finger, your engine is missing, and you can clearly hear its internal mechanical noise, it's a lifter man, not exhaust.

Trust me, was just in your shoes. Had 14 lifters that would support my weight and 2 that compressed with a screwdriver. I couldn't move the pushrod cup with my finger at all.

https://flic.kr/p/2kV3vxq

Stop by any parts store you want, ask to examine a lifter for your car and feel how tight the spring is in the push rod cup..

I just recieved my johnson lifters and on one or two of them i can push the plunger a little with a pen

[andrewb70]

I just recieved my johnson lifters and on one or two of them i can push the plunger a little with a pen

That's normal. You should soak them in motor oil over night before you install them.

Andrew

[Hotwire]

Little bit of handy garage knowledge, 16 lifters will fit in a quart bottle of oil. :geek:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/05/51139735771_e5c75db8be_c-1.jpg

[Sinnister69]

...

What is this?
Did you just seriously join a forum and your only post is ...?

[dhutton]

What is this?
Did you just seriously join a forum and your only post is ...?
Spammer

[Sinnister69]

Finally pulled one head cam looked good as i spun it around. But my valves ever so lightly hit the pistons. Good thing is the valves arent bent and seat fine

189991189992

[dhutton]

Always a good idea to check PTV clearance when swapping cams. That’s why I asked way back in the beginning of this thread. There is a ton of information out there on how to do it. The springs etc are cheap.

Don

[Sinnister69]

Just pulled passenger head and only piston #2 has the same mark on the intake

[Sinnister69]

Also is there a difference what direction the ouling hole in the lifter faces?

[Hotwire]

Your rod bearings might have a little extra clearance for that to be happening. Get some rubbing alcohol and fill the combustion chamber, that helps in seeing if the valves are sealing.

The oil galley is drilled under the lifter bores, so I usually face them down into the galley. Don't think it really makes a difference though. It's more about hydraulic pressure than anything.

[Sinnister69]

Is that notmal?

[dhutton]

You need fly cut pistons with that cam imho.

Don

[Sinnister69]

Besides the obvious tsp never really states or doesnt state at all what needs fly cutting.
But im gonna go with a smaller cam

[dhutton]

Besides the obvious tsp never really states or doesnt state at all what needs fly cutting.
But im gonna go with a smaller cam
That absolves them of any liability. I don’t do a lot of cam swaps but I generally check PTV clearance if lift is higher than stock.

Don

[ryeguy2006a]

I'm super happy with my Summit Cam. I went with the 8715 "Ghost Cam" and it runs great in my car. Great sound at idle, and lower lift so much less of a chance of this happening. Thanks for keeping us updated on your situation. Bummer that happened...

[Sinnister69]

I'm super happy with my Summit Cam. I went with the 8715 "Ghost Cam" and it runs great in my car. Great sound at idle, and lower lift so much less of a chance of this happening. Thanks for keeping us updated on your situation. Bummer that happened...

No problem and yea it sucks. I heard good things about the ghost cam
Im looking to get something tailored to my car.
Gonna go with a cam from cam motion

[Hotwire]

Is that notmal?

What pistons hit? Are they on the same journal?

If your valves didn't take the hit then definitely get a piece of glass or a mirror (something FLAT) and check your pushrods by rolling them across the surface. I have a cheap glass square from home depot that I use, comes in a cardboard package that you can store it in when not using it. You have to be critical looking at them to be sure they aren't bent. There's a lot of energy needed to ding the piston, it had to be absorbed by something.

Hate to hear you had a contact, but glad it wasn't anything more critical.

[Sinnister69]

Pistons 1,3,5,7 and2 hit
4,6,8 are fine

[Sinnister69]

Anyone know where i can get stock ls3 beehive retainers? I tried summit and jegs but cant seem to find any

[Hotwire]

Texas speed? Brian Tooley Racing? Tick Performance?

[Sinnister69]

Texas speed? Brian Tooley Racing? Tick Performance?

Im lookin for the correct specs for the springs that come in a cam kit

[Sinnister69]

After researchin summit offers their 8707 cam in 3 kits. One kit uses trick flow beehive springs with 318lb open spring pressure and the other two ise dual spring with 425lb open spring pressure
My pac springs have 415lb open spring pressure. Closed spring pressures are the same
So would you huys agree that i can use my pac springs?

[Sinnister69]

Turns out that my valves did not hit the pistons.
When i was changing the valve springs i would forget to open the air line to keep cylinder pressure on the valve so the 1” or so they fell left a mark. I confirmed this by taking one of my valves and dropping them from a 1” height and it left the same mark. Pistons are pretty soft imho

[Sinnister69]

Further investigating since everything looked immaculate i have a feeling an injector is stuck open thinning out the oil and causing the pressure to drop causing the ticking

Oil filter was almost like water

I have the tsp cam for sale in the forum classifieds

[Sinnister69]

Fired up the car started the first time. Tune def needs to be tweeked. I checked all the injectors for any leaks and they were fine
Engine oil was 45psi at cold idle settled down to around 39-40psi after it warmed up to operating temp. And no ticking besides the normal sewing machine noise. But even that got more quiet after it warmed 191914

https://youtube.com/shorts/vYgBSKQX8ro?feature=share

[Sinnister69]

Eh nobody cares lol

[dhutton]

I care :lmao:

Don