1970 Firebird Twin Turbo Build

[LeighP]

Any suggestions on what we should put on the name plate?

Dave, here’s to you man – Bad A$$!

Man...you just named it yourself....have those plates made up with the name - "BAD A$$" (with the actual dollar signs)

Sure as heck fits this car.

[tcronkright]

i think the raw finish looks the best, really cool project and great one off work.

as for the name on the valve cover i do not have a suggestion but i would say whatever it is you should do it in the TA style font.

Good call on the TA font. I am leaning toward "Pontiac" with the traditional symbol or "Firebird" with the symbol used for that year.

[aronhk_md]

Don't think you've mentioned what trans you are going to use. I'm going to be putting a 4L80E with paddle shifters in mine. If you are going for the same, keep Jakeshoe from this forum in mind. He's the little guy, but I think he knows as much about these conversions as anyone.

He recently developed a new trans brake for them, and I've been talking to him about whats necessary to build the trans to provide compression brakingin all or most gears.....as you would have in a manual trans. Something very desireable for road racing which is an eventual possibility with my car. I dont think any of the other builders are even talking about these things.

[PonchoJohn]

Dave Visner called me over yesterday to go over the final touches on the intake, throttle bodies and valve covers. The throttle body openings are 4" each to match the 4" plumbing for the turbos. He has designed the linkage to run under the intake just above the valley pan so everything is concealed. He is also creating a billet water cross over and thermostat housing. The heads have a dual cooling chambers - front and back. We will tie the two cooling systems together under the intake.

In order to keep the look and milling consistent, Visner made custom risers and valve covers out of a single piece of billet.

We decided on dual fuel rails with two separate stages of injectors to support both a smooth idle and higher fuel demands once we apply boost.

We will powder coat or anodize the intake, throttle bodies and valve covers. The plumbing will be powder coated black as well. The heads will stay aluminum and the block and oil pan will be black. We are making a 9" x 3" raised letter plate that will be inlayed into the center of the valve covers. The letters will be brushed aluminum with a black background.

Any suggestions on what we should put on the name plate?

Dave, here’s to you man – Bad A$$!

HOLY $H! IT!!!!! That's the most BAD-A$$ED BAD A$$ Pontiac induction I've ever seen. I think I just messed myself!!!

[PonchoJohn]

Dude, you've GOT to convince the guy who made this stuff to go into production w/ it!!
Maybe contact Ken 'Ace' Brewer at Pacific Performance Racing about having it made as a casting- that induction is so rad, and the valve cover design is just too sweet!! I bet they don't leak- know what I mean???!!!!

[monteboy84]

My dear God..... This whole thing, it's absurd..... and I love it.

-matt

[PonchoJohn]

The more I stare at that plenum, the more I keep thinking how it looks like a Whipple charger, which makes me think "How hard would it be to slip some rotors in that thing, and extend the front so it can be driven off the crank, AND still use the 4" inlets??? Better yet, let's get REALLY wild and run it off the rear section via the flywheel!" Heady stuff....

[tcronkright]

Don't think you've mentioned what trans you are going to use. I'm going to be putting a 4L80E with paddle shifters in mine. If you are going for the same, keep Jakeshoe from this forum in mind. He's the little guy, but I think he knows as much about these conversions as anyone.

He recently developed a new trans brake for them, and I've been talking to him about whats necessary to build the trans to provide compression brakingin all or most gears.....as you would have in a manual trans. Something very desireable for road racing which is an eventual possibility with my car. I dont think any of the other builders are even talking about these things.

We're running a Tremec TKO 500 5-speed with a dual disc clutch. We had Moser build a 12 bolt rear end with TrueTrac 33 spline axles and Moser Pro-Street gears. This is a strong set up, but will not handle everything the engine will put out - but it would not really be driveable at that power level anyway.

Your paddle shifter set up sounds great. Any pics on that system?

[tcronkright]

Dude, you've GOT to convince the guy who made this stuff to go into production w/ it!!
Maybe contact Ken 'Ace' Brewer at Pacific Performance Racing about having it made as a casting- that induction is so rad, and the valve cover design is just too sweet!! I bet they don't leak- know what I mean???!!!!

I thought the exact same thing. When I saw it the first time last Friday, I just stared at it for a while. The pictures do not do it justice - the 4" dual throttle body inlets are HUGE. I had him make the valve covers to match because I wanted to make sure the finished milling pattern was the same. The back plate is large enough for us to mount dual pressure regulators that are concealed. It will look amazing after we coat it black and add some finishing details.

Glad you like it, I will talk to Dave about production pieces. He has all the designs in CAD so they could be duplicated. Depending on the response we get at SEMA, he may be a very busy guy!

[CarQz17]

You're gonna cover up all that beautiful bare aluminum? I want those bad.

[bonecrrusher]

That intake manifold reminds me of this...

[Swairlines]

Those steel ground effects are RAD....too bad there isnt a kit on the market something like this for a range of musclecars....

[aronhk_md]

We're running a Tremec TKO 500 5-speed with a dual disc clutch. We had Moser build a 12 bolt rear end with TrueTrac 33 spline axles and Moser Pro-Street gears. This is a strong set up, but will not handle everything the engine will put out - but it would not really be driveable at that power level anyway.

Your paddle shifter set up sounds great. Any pics on that system?

Twist....one of the sponsors on here....has the nicest paddle system I've seen. I was going to make my own as its simply instant-on switches that send the message to the trans.

Not sure if you realize but that TKO is nowhere near strong enough for what you are designing. If I were you I'd look at the 4L80E for that reason (they can be built to handle 1200-1500hp), but ALSO because turbos require time to spool.....and backpressure to spool........................you will lose both in between shifts. Not an issue on a supercharged car, but a turbo is another story. If you havent yet....talk to some people with turbo manual cars. Drive one if you can.

As mentioned Jake can build the 4l80 to give you compression braking, which when combined with paddle shifters would give you the feel of a manual trans in up and downshifting.

On a separate note have you decided what front suspension is going into the car? I'm planning to use the following Vette Brakes Products setup:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...ion/index.html

That car was able to achieve a .96g on the skidpad, and they believe its capable of 1.00 or better. Theres a guy on the forum here who has been running it for several years too with good results. He is able to run 285's on the front with no clearance issues, it drops about 60 lbs unsprung weight too.

Its no longer even in their catalog, but I spoke with the tech Gary and he said theres still enough parts there he could put together at least a package or two, and if the demand was high enough they could put it back into production. Basically its similar system to what the C5 and C6 vettes use.

You can adjust spring rate and ride height separately. Doesnt hurt that the entire setup runs only around $1200 and includes upper and lower A arms, bilstein shocks, big swaybars front and rear, ball joints.

P.S. - Critter is one of the active forum members here to see about the 4L80 in his trans am and the TWIST paddle shifters. Here's the thread, but keep in mind he originally bought the trans from an unknown builder.......and his problems were related to that more than anything I believe. The paddle shifters are near the end of the thread (page 4&5), including a video of him on the road shifting. There are quite a few on here running the 4L80 in various cars. There are other companies here doing 4L80 transmissions, but Jakeshoe has a great reputation on these forums....reaching out to help those who didnt even buy from him. Not to mention his innovations with this trans that others dont seem to have. Would be great to see him recognized for these efforts.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=63369

[Doug1]

P.S. - Critter is one of the active forum members here to see about the 4L80 in his trans am and the TWIST paddle shifters. Here's the thread, but keep in mind he originally bought the trans from an unknown builder.......and his problems were related to that more than anything I believe. The paddle shifters are near the end of the thread (page 4&5), including a video of him on the road shifting. There are quite a few on here running the 4L80 in various cars. There are other companies here doing 4L80 transmissions, but Jakeshoe has a great reputation on these forums....reaching out to help those who didnt even buy from him. Not to mention his innovations with this trans that others dont seem to have. Would be great to see him recognized for these efforts.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=63369

Anyone using the 4L85e Supermatic? That seemed to be the ticket but I don't know how it would compare against a built 4L80.

[LeighP]

A guy who used to post on Transamcountry has the VPB front suspension in his car...it took him some time of tuning the suspension and trialing diffrent shocks to dial it all in, but he's very happy with it now.

[killerzracing71]

What size is the rear tire and rim going to be?

Those renderings made my JAW DROP.

That looks awesome.

I cant wait till its my time to do a project like that.

[aronhk_md]

Doug....I dont know about the 4L85. Maybe one of the experts can chime in. I DO know that the 4L80 can be built into this horsepower range, whereas that TKO.......

LeighP.....I think thats the same guy I spoke with about the VBP front suspension, and he's here on the PT forum too. His name is Jeremy, and I spoke with him. For the money it seems to be an excellent setup. Other option being a complete aftermarket front subframe, and I think they start around $4000.

[tcronkright]

Those steel ground effects are RAD....too bad there isnt a kit on the market something like this for a range of musclecars....

Thanks for the comment. I am talking with All Speed about the possible reproduction of a body kit with this design.

[tcronkright]

What size is the rear tire and rim going to be?

Those renderings made my JAW DROP.

That looks awesome.

I cant wait till its my time to do a project like that.

Rear wheel will be 20" x 12.5". Not sure on the exact size of the tire yet but they will be some meats!

[tcronkright]

Doug....I dont know about the 4L85. Maybe one of the experts can chime in. I DO know that the 4L80 can be built into this horsepower range, whereas that TKO.......

LeighP.....I think thats the same guy I spoke with about the VBP front suspension, and he's here on the PT forum too. His name is Jeremy, and I spoke with him. For the money it seems to be an excellent setup. Other option being a complete aftermarket front subframe, and I think they start around $4000.

I agree with your comments on the TKO. When I spoke with their engineers, they said it would handle 800-900hp without a problem and above 1,000 for short periods of time (i.e., chassis dyno) but not at sustained levels. I have been in a boosted 69 Camaro that ASP built for DC Shoes last year and it drove nice. That car makes about 1,200hp on high boost. Yes, you have to learn the behavior and timing of the turbos, but it was a blast to drive. I plan on keeping it on low boost for most of the time which will keep me in the 800hp/800 torque range. I agree there are stronger options, but I am a sucker for a stick and always wanted this build to include the old-school manual.