2004R issues !

[newschool72]

I am in the process of debugging a 72 Camaro that I put together from the ground up as a good all around streeter. Im running a LS3 crate engine w a very mild Bullet Racing custom grind, a GMPP dual plane intake and Fast EZ efi, a 2004R trans , 2200 rpm stall and 3.42 gears in the back. It has the Hotchkis TVS springs and sway bars, etc,etc....
I made a trip to the dragstrip to dial in the timing curve on the MSD 6012 box yesterday and started having some issues with the trans. On my first pass I went 12.15 at 112 mph, which was OK, but short on MPH from my expectations by about 3-5 mph. On the trip down the return lane, I knocked it in neutral to let things cool down some, and when I put it back in drive the trans slipped then caught. I down shifted to third and the same thing, and second too. Only when I dropped it in low, did it grab the gear clean. I let it cool down for about 15 mins and drove it down the return lane again, mashing on it pretty hard and it shifted good. I made another pass and heard a loud shrieking noise through 2nd and into third. When I stopped at the timing shack for my time slip, the lady informed me that the starting line tech saw a mild trans fluid leak. I didn't want to oil the track down and mess up the bracket race that was coming up, so I called it quits for the day. I looked under the car and saw a little smoke coming off the headers, but no big leak. I drove it home ( a 40 mile drive) and it seemed to do OK at part throttle. I smelled burning trans fluid at every stop but no smoke rolling out ( very minor leak). I did kick it from a stop once on the way home and it flashed through the RPMs real quickly, like it was slipping, but it hit the gear changes hard.
One more note, I did loose a MPH on the second pass that I heard the shrieking noise. Anyone have a clue what might be going on? I haven't jack the car up yet to try to find the leak. Oh and the 2004R was supposed to be built to hold 550 HP/ 650 FT LBS. Thanks in advance for the insight!

[Thephranc]

Bad TV adjustment? Hate to say it but that trans maybe done.

[newschool72]

Im not sure you are wrong on the second statement, but Im pretty sure the TV was spot on. Ive been playing with 1 click back and forth on the adjustment. It shifts really well in drive or manually . I honestly think the engine is blowing through the clutches or converter, or both. I am just an idiot on the inner workings of an auto trans, so Im not sure about the mechanics of the engine being too much for the trans to hold. I kinda get the blowing through a converter theory , but is it the bands or clutches that dictate the trans ability to hold a certain amount of torque?
I can dig up the mods on the trans and post them if anyone wants to critique the trans to see if it should hold up to my engine. Im guessing my LS3 is making around 520-540 HP and roughly 480 Ft LBS at the flywheel. My trap speed says it is making way less than a 20% drive train loss. At my race weight of 3475, Im only making around 340 HP at the wheels to go 112 mph. When I put the combo together I though it would make 400 at the wheels fairly easily. Is trans slippage making the number that low?

[alocker]

Did you verify full TV plunger depression at WOT when you installed the trans? Are you sure the TV cable geometry is correct? What does your fluid look/smell like.

[newschool72]

Yes ,the TV pulled to max limit at or slightly before WOT and the geometry is correct with the proper adapter. The fluid looks like new and doesn't smell burnt. I guess I should clarify that the car has been together for close to a year and I spent a lot of time making sure the TV is correct . Minute adjustment while driving 1/2 mile or less between adjustments to be sure I didn't burn the trans up. The leak is in the line/dipstick area by looking at the very small puddle on the garage floor. I lost a quart of fluid, total, yesterday. I have been running the fluid a 1/2 quart over full at the advise of the outfit that built it and it was at normal full level when I left the track. Now its a 1/2 quart low after a 40 mile ride home.

[alocker]

Yes ,the TV pulled to max limit at or slightly before WOT and the geometry is correct with the proper adapter. The fluid looks like new and doesn't smell burnt.

How many miles were on it before you went to the strip? Have you discussed this with the builder?

[newschool72]

The odometer was at 305 miles when I pulled into the track. The warranty is over by a year and to be honest, I don't have much faith in their advise. I bought the trans and basically everything else before I started the build over 2 years ago.

[Thephranc]

With the 200 power handling ratings are not just the friction material but also with the parts in the trans itself. Stock parts and even hardened parts will fail at your power levels. Billet will last better. I learned that pressures inside the trans are very important too like for the actuators that apply the band.

[alocker]

Sounds like you will probably have to get the trans looked at. Many builders promise certain power levels but the 2004r can be a tricky one and throwing parts at them does not mean bulletproof reliability. If I were to guess the second gear band slipped and is now probably burnt. Why this happened is hard to say. Who was the builder and why don't you have faith in them? It cannot hurt to get their opinion.

[newschool72]

It is the Transmission Depot. The trans is the stage 2. The parts list includes... Transgo stage 2 shift kit , HD performance clutches/ red altos , hardened HD Sun Shell , hardened stator support, Superior Super Servo, HD Kevlar Band, 500 Boost valve, Remaned 13 vane pump w Teflon Bushings.
I had some questions after I installed the trans and the guy said, the guy that built it probably didn't lube certain parts when installed , BUT he always does and pretty much blew me off. I was getting some strange noise when I drove on side inclines in my yard and he said to put an extra 1/2 quart of fluid in it. It was trying to stall the engine when coming to a stop because the converter was not unlocking and he said, it will break in. All these things worked out in time, but I was a tech in a fairly precise trade and just didn't like the way he handled my questions. My warranty was expired before I cranked the car for the first time because I bought everything in the beginning of a ground up build, so the guy didn't want to waste his time on my concerns, it seemed. I hope Im not alone in thinking that's just not the way to treat a customer. Thanks for the replies ,guys. Keep the ideas coming.

[alocker]

If he really admitted he thinks the guy assembled your trans improperly (did lube certain parts) then you have a leg to stand on. Are you speaking with the owner? If not, you need to and honestly explain the situation. I went to their website and looked at their 700+ HP 2004R build and its really not more than a stock rebuilt. If you are going to spend the time to build one of these, the hardened parts listed would be required even in low hp applications. To even make the claim of 700+ hp capability it would have to have billet parts. I am no 2004R expert but I just finished building one and they are a little weird. For example they do have air pocket problems when new and cause it to do funny things (mine didn't 3/4 shift until about 75 road miles). The lockup issues seems weird and I don't understand how that could work itself out.

[newschool72]

Thanks for the help alocker. Yea ,the whole experience with this trans has been close to a nightmare. Im not sure what to do at this point . Im in a position where throwing money at this build is fast coming to an end . A member on LS1Tech has been running a 2004R in a 65 Buick w an LS that is running low 10s on nitrous and is very happy with his builder. I guess I will get with him and see what has been done to his trans. I need a book or video that shows all the tricks and also just the way to put one of these trans together. Its the only part of this build I didn't do myself other than the crate engine ( I did do the cam swap, intake changes ) . Ive always been mechanically inclined and am confident I can pull the build off myself, with proper instruction. Do you have a source for the proper build tech on building the 2004R?

[Thephranc]

I'd buy a built trans. Automatics while not hard to rebuild are not a first time job. I've built a few th350 and 400s and they aren't like the 200/ 700. The 200 has its own quarks too and to handle power need to be machined.

Poke around the grand national forum and they can steer you to a good builder or part supplier if you are really intent on building your self. Look to spend 3 - 4 grand to handle your power for a prebuilt. I got mine from CK Performance in NY they had a good rep and were fairly local.

[csouth]

Thanks for the help alocker. Yea ,the whole experience with this trans has been close to a nightmare. Im not sure what to do at this point . Im in a position where throwing money at this build is fast coming to an end . A member on LS1Tech has been running a 2004R in a 65 Buick w an LS that is running low 10s on nitrous and is very happy with his builder. I guess I will get with him and see what has been done to his trans. I need a book or video that shows all the tricks and also just the way to put one of these trans together. Its the only part of this build I didn't do myself other than the crate engine ( I did do the cam swap, intake changes ) . Ive always been mechanically inclined and am confident I can pull the build off myself, with proper instruction. Do you have a source for the proper build tech on building the 2004R?

Building a trans, especially a 2004r is something I would not attempt if you've never built a trans. There are some very specific tools that go along with build a trans that wouldn't be worth the investment for a one time build.
As others have mentioned, the hard parts in the 2004r are a big weakness when dealing in high hp applications. It's not the HP, but the torque that will tear up the trans. You should definitely hit the Turbo Buick forum and see what guys over there can offer.

[alocker]

Newsschool72,
I used CK Performance for all my parts and the 2004R rebuild manual that he wrote. I was able to rebuild mine with no special tools. You might want to think about billet parts and machining to install roller thrust bearings. If you do go that route, make sure you hook up a pressure gauge to make sure you are getting the pressure you need.