Looking for front subframe suspension setup

[exwestracer]

Since my name has been thrown out there.I guess I will chime in.Getting the 48"-50" hub face is going to be hard since the C-5/C-6 control arm's are quite long.About 54" hub face could be done using a Sweet rack & pinion.But that give you about a 28"Out to Out frame width.If I use 1.50"X4.0" rec tube you would have a 25" inside frame measurement.I would need to know more about the project in order to know if what I build could work.Scott Mock.

Scott, I think he gave up on the Vette stuff up in post #11... I think.

[avewhtboy]

Hey Scott, thanks for chiming in... I never thought the arms would work, unless I wanted to go with corvette wheels or something
with 6-7 inches of backspacing, I am not opposed to that if thats what it takes to work, that's what I am trying find out.



What measurements or specs are needed? In one of my posts I listed some specs, would be glad to provide more if needed?

[coolwelder62]

Hey Scott, thanks for chiming in... I never thought the arms would work, unless I wanted to go with corvette wheels or something
with 6-7 inches of backspacing, I am not opposed to that if thats what it takes to work, that's what I am trying find out.



What measurements or specs are needed? In one of my posts I listed some specs, would be glad to provide more if needed?

What I would need is OA/frame width wanted,Total OA Track width.That way I could see if I could put something togater to fit your need's.I am building a weld in clip for a 68 ford mustang right now.

[HUSTLESTUFF]

You might look at cortex racing for spindles. Mike

[dontlifttoshift]

If a whole DSE subframe is out of the question due to cost, then the cortex spindles are definitely not in play.

[coolwelder62]

If a whole DSE subframe is out of the question due to cost, then the cortex spindles are definitely not in play.

The DSE weld in 535X clip is a great buy.It's a proven unit and it's complete.

[avewhtboy]

What I would need is OA/frame width wanted,Total OA Track width.That way I could see if I could put something togater to fit your need's.I am building a weld in clip for a 68 ford mustang right now.

Ok best I can tell, the hubwidth I would be going for is approx 52", I am unsure though, which is why I have this thread going.

If I use 4 7/8" backspaced wheels, 52 would be about right, maybe 51, if I were to use late model corvette/f body wheels with 6-7"
of backspacing I think the track width could be stretched wider, I am open to all of this, thats what I am trying to figure out.

[exwestracer]

Start with the inner lip width across the front fenders. Subtract about an inch on each side for clearance. That's your max outside track width. Now you can work back from there with wheel width and offset to find the hub to hub width that will work. You must have SOMETHING nailed down to get an answer, otherwise you're trying to solve an equation with more than one variable...can't be done.

[avewhtboy]

Start with the inner lip width across the front fenders. Subtract about an inch on each side for clearance. That's your max outside track width. Now you can work back from there with wheel width and offset to find the hub to hub width that will work. You must have SOMETHING nailed down to get an answer, otherwise you're trying to solve an equation with more than one variable...can't be done.

Hey ray, i posted these specs earlier, maybe you missed?

Ideally, looking at an appleton or sweet power rack, track width as i said around 48-52, 50 being the target, frame width about 28 inches,
trying to fit as big tire up front as possible, like 275,40/17, inside the fender or a small flare, 4 7/8" backspace wheel. 17x9, tire width approx
10 inches, tire height, 25 inches. Stock fender lip-lip is 65 inches, so thats what I have to work with.


The only difference I see is wheel backspacing, from 4 7/8'-7" depending on wheels I choose.

I haven't bought anything yet, the point of this thread is to figure out what will work together before I buy wheels, spindles, control arms, power steering
rack, etc that will not work together.

So I am pretty open to parameters nothing set in stone yet thats what I am trying to do.

For instance, I don't want to buy wheels to be told I have the wrong offset, thats the point of hashing this out here.


I see too many projects, where wheels didnt fit, tires dont fit, brakes dont fit, end up selling parts for a loss to buy other parts
to make it work, just trying to avoid some of this if possible,

For instance I learned, If I want power steering, for a mustang 2/ ididit/flaming river rack the track with has to be at least 54 inches,

I believe if I use something like appleton rack I can get my track width down to 52 inches maybe even 50, which is where it seems
I need to be. Frame rail width is open, really only limiting factor is tire frame rail interference at full compression and drop and the edge
of the fenders.

[k7king]

http://woodyshotrodz.com/jegsvega/

[coolwelder62]

Using C-6 componets you prob. wont be able get a 52" hub face.I would look into the AME frt unit.They offer it in a 48",50",52" widht's.

[avewhtboy]

[exwestracer]

Well, you gave a 3-4" range for hub to hub width, so I wasn't sure if you'd measured the available space. I get now that your question is trading hub (track) width for wheel offset. Personally, I'd go with wider hub track and more positive wheel offset (backspace). If you go with "build up" stock car type arms, you can build whatever split angle and length you need to make the steering work.

[avewhtboy]

Well, you gave a 3-4" range for hub to hub width, so I wasn't sure if you'd measured the available space. I get now that your question is trading hub (track) width for wheel offset. Personally, I'd go with wider hub track and more positive wheel offset (backspace). If you go with "build up" stock car type arms, you can build whatever split angle and length you need to make the steering work.

Hey thanks for the reply, feel like we may be getting somewhere, because I don't know what you are talking about when you say I can build whatever split angle and length
I like, but I believe that is what I am looking for.

Lets say I use the above scenario for wheel tire combo, I use the S10 spindle with the divorced rotor setup, lets say I am using frame rail of 2x3 or 2x4, what I would like
to know is how long are listed in my drawing, U, U1, U2, L, L1, L2, to achieve lets say -1 degree static camber, 4 degrees caster, while achieving proper racing geometry?

I hope this is clear, this is all new to me, trying to push my knowledge further and eliminate mistakes if possible.

[avewhtboy]

Jegs Vega frame





Custom vega frame, for drag car



S10 spindles, with some upgrades on a Vega

[exwestracer]

Hey thanks for the reply, feel like we may be getting somewhere, because I don't know what you are talking about when you say I can build whatever split angle and length
I like, but I believe that is what I am looking for.

Lets say I use the above scenario for wheel tire combo, I use the S10 spindle with the divorced rotor setup, lets say I am using frame rail of 2x3 or 2x4, what I would like
to know is how long are listed in my drawing, U, U1, U2, L, L1, L2, to achieve lets say -1 degree static camber, 4 degrees caster, while achieving proper racing geometry?

I hope this is clear, this is all new to me, trying to push my knowledge further and eliminate mistakes if possible.

(pmzracing.com photo)

THis is the type of arm I was referring to. There is no cross shaft, so the split angle can be wider or narrower to suit the space available. Also, the links are just turnbuckles (L and R thread), so they can be made in whatever length you need. There are similar setups available for the lower arm as well.

The camber curve should be determined by the width and sidewall height of the tire. For the size you quoted, something on the order of 1/2 - 3/4 deg camber gain per inch should be adequate. You still have 2 variables: relative arm lengths and upper arm angle. The lower arm should be level at ride height. The closer the upper and lower lengths are, the less camber change for a given upper arm angle. Shorter arms give quicker camber change and roll center change, BUT you have a major practicality issue with the frame width.

You'll need a balljoint-to-hub face measurement for your chosen spindle. Note that the frames you posted have the UCA mounts centered on the rail, and that is pretty much standard.

So, let's say you need that 28" outside rail measurement, and you stick with the wheel combo in the drawing. THESE NUMBERS ARE FOR REFERENCE ONLY. I haven't measured any of this stuff... 65 (body)-3 (1 1/2" clearance each side) gives 62 outside to outside of tires. 62-5 1/2" (bulge to hub face both sides) leaves us at 56 1/2" track width which is pretty close to what you had in the drawing. Subtract the 26" center width of the rails (UCA mount as mentioned above) and you have 30 1/2" (15 1/4" each side) from UCA mount to hub face. Here's where you need the hub face to upper balljoint dimension.

Let's say it's 6" (a GUESS!). That leaves you 9 1/4" from balljoint to UCA mount, so that is the effective length of the UCA. U1 and U2 would be based on the length difference needed for split angle and caster. You can do the same thing for the lowers. The UCA should be 75-80% of the LCA length for that size tire.

Are we there yet?

[avewhtboy]

We are getting close, thanks a lot ray, more to come!

[avewhtboy]

Got some wheels and some 2x3 square tube, going to get spindle assembly tomorrow with any luck

[Z06killinSBF]

Don't forget, the '00ish Blazer spindles use a hub'd rotor assy and can get the adapter hubs for them to fit the Vette Brakes.

[avewhtboy]

Don't forget, the '00ish Blazer spindles use a hub'd rotor assy and can get the adapter hubs for them to fit the Vette Brakes.

I havent forgot, thats one reason I was looking to go this way, I don't think I will need bigger brakes, but its an easy option for sure.

The other reason to use these spindles for the abs sensor, possibly adapt the S10 system to this car....