700r4 question?

[myclone]

just wondering if u think i should use a transgo kit.

Transgo makes good stuff and most builders I know that are not cement heads use their stuff. I personally dont use any shift kits since Im a one man show/hobbiest type builder and tailor each trans to the customers wants/needs by shimming, blocking, or flipping accumulators, swapping servos, weighing governor weights, and upping line pressures.

Theres MANY ways to make a trans shift when and how you want from simple bolt in shift kits in a box to doing what I do with accumulators/servos/pressures. It all depends on how much work you want to put into the trans. Shift kit=quick/cheap/effective. Flipping/blocking/pressures=more work but it turns out EXACTLY how I and the customer wants it to not "one size fits all" so to speak. In your situation Im betting you will be happy with a shift kit since this is a truck that will do some towing and prolly get you to and from work during the week so youre prolly not picky about whether the trans shifts at 3,500 RPM vs 3,550 RPM but you want it to last.

i plan on using the transtar "race" kit #k6100hp that comes with more stuff than even the master kits do. are you fimilar with ths kit Myclone?

Yep, got one or two of those on the shelf right now. I dont believe the band in the above kit is the "wide" band and when I questioned my contact at Transtar about thisa few years ago his claim was the friction material is of sufficient quality that the wide band isnt needed. I can understand that now that Ive been doing this for while since there is a HUGE difference in quality of frictiom materials out there and their intended purposes so when you get that deep into trans's you can start engineering things in different ways. What I mean is that I suggested for you to install a "wide" band previously as I assumed that like most ppl you were prolly throwing the cheapest kit you could find in the trans. The cheap kits have less than stellar friction material and need the extra width of the wider band to hold up longer. Now that I know youre using a high quality kit you can get away with a narrow band due to the better friction material. That make any sense? LOL.

what do u think about the unbreakable transgo pump rings?

I use them in anything that runs high line pressure. While I didnt have any failures before (lucky maybe?) IMO its cheap insurance so if you want to spend the few dollars on them it wont be money wasted IMO.
IMO stick with the stock 10 vane pump though as Ive seen some failures with the 13 vane units with high line pressure. Stick with the stocker 10 vane and youll be fine.

do they make metal rings for the turbine shaft?

Not that Im aware of and the only thing Ive ever seen was teflon. Youre kit should come with solid teflon rings and those are the ones to use. Dont use the scarf cut rings that do not need resizing since they tend to leak and or the sharp end can grab a casting defect/nick and get damaged. Instant lube leak/trans failure if this happens.

i am not to crazy about the resizing process of the seals that come with the kits. thanks again

Believe it or not I felt the same way when I got into rebuilding 700s and before I made enough spare cash to buy the sizing tools I didnt know what to do about it. An old timer trans guy gave me a few pointers after seeing me struggle with it that I'll pass along.

To install he sealing rings over the input shaft without tearing them up cut the top and bottom off of a soda can then cut the remaining cylinder vertically. You now have a really thin piece of aluminum ~4"X6" which you can wrap around the input shaft then slide the seal over top of the metal down to its proper groove in the shaft. Start at the bottom next to the drum and work your way to the end so you dont have to force the seal over top of the previously installed ones. It also helps to kneed(sp?) the seals between your fingers to warm them up slightly which softens them but do the kneeding in such a way that you put a little pressure on the seal to expand it. Hard as all get out to explain but but really simple if I could show you.

To size the seals take the same piece of soda can and wrap it around the input shaft over top of the seals and use 4 small hose clamps to tighten your piece of tin can down on the seals. Dont be timid about tightening the clamps either....put some hind end on em. The only thing to be cautious of is the thin metal tends to want to "wrinkle" under the hose clamp adjusting screw and bugger up the seal so you may want to take the clamps/metal back off once its tightened and check the seals. If they all look ok then put it back on, clamp it down, and leave it sit over night since the seals will want to spring back out if you dont leave them clamped long enough.

You can use the same method on the stator suppor sealing rings too so they will slide into the rev input drum. Below is a pic of what I was talking about previously when I mentioned beveling the bushing on the rev drum so the seals will slide in easier.


One last thing on the seal sizing deal if you use the cut up pop can method. Ive found through experimentation :D that beer cans are actually too thin (at least Coors cans are) but soda cans seem to be a few thou thicker and work better when you tighten the hose clamps down to compress the seals. It took me several 12 packs to find this out but it was the most fun Ive ever had at doing research too.

There is a few 700R4 pics in my gallery that may be of some help but then again since you have previous TH350 experience you may be well aware of most or all of anything thats shown. Be aware that there are pics on there that you might not want your 4yr old to see. No nudity or the like but misc pics I found funny/entertaining that may peak the curiosity of someone younger who would then start asking uncomfortable questions. http://gallery.turbotime.us/gallery/myclone

HTH some.

[myclone]

Forgot I had this pic... In the below pic you can see the hose clamp/thin metal to size the seals on the input shaft. Ive only got two of the four hose clamps on there in the pic but it should show you what Im talking about. In this particular pic Im also using some shim stock (brass) that I picked up from the local hardware store instead of a cut up soda can. I think I paid $5 for a 1ftx1.5ft piece of brass and it was easier to work with since it was soft and I could cut it with scissors but slightly thicker so it didnt wrinkle as bad when the clamps were tightened (just dont tell Mrs myclone Ive been using her scissors to cut metal in the garage!!).

[jaz]

i have done alot of research trying to learn as much as possible about the 700r4. i started building my own transmissions due to getting hosed by these rebuilders who do not no **** about the transmissions some idiot showed them how to take apart and put back together. i am glad u prefer the transtar race kit. the reason i decided to use it is because it contains raybestos friction materials and i like the brand of rubber lipseals transtar includes, they seem to fit tighter than some of the other brands rubbers. is everything in the kit worth useing? are the sprags they include good quality? which shift kit do you recomend transtar race or no yoyo? i know the transtar kit does not come with the unbreakable rings, so what other parts would i need to buy individually besides the pump rings and shift kit? i already have a 10 vane pump. it looks great but should i put new vanes or any other new parts in it? should i do any drilling for the front seal or any other mods to the pump? i have a 93 vette servo assembly and was considering buying the billet 3-4 servo since i would like to tow in od. the guru at raybestos wants me to use the "z-pack". i do not think i really need it plus i like things to be on the market and prove theirselfs before i get hosed on them. thanks in advance hope i am not getting to be a pain in the a@#

[myclone]

i is everything in the kit worth useing?

Their will be some misc O rings, seals, and other do dads that you wont use so if youre asking whether or not youll have a completely empty Transtar box when your done then the answer is no.

are the sprags they include good quality?

Seem to be so far as I havent had any failures (yet).

which shift kit do you recomend transtar race or no yoyo?

This one I cant really help you with since I dont do shift kits and tailor my trans's to the customer using the shimming/flipping/blocking of accumes as well as line pressures and servo sizes. Sorry, Im kinda worthless on shift kit recomemdations other than all the builders Ive talked to hate the el cheapo B&M stuff.

i know the transtar kit does not come with the unbreakable rings, so what other parts would i need to buy individually besides the pump rings and shift kit?

The bigger boost valve I talked about earlier wouldnt hurt you any even if its only the .470" (<biggest GM makes but aftermarket goes to ~.525") and the big OD servo if you plan on towing in OD. Thats about all I can think of right off the top of my head since about everything else you can make yourself.

However, there are TONS of other stuff but then you start getting into GM 5 gear planets, molded lip seals on pistons and the like which gets expensive really quick in a relatively low hp/low line pressure application like youre working on now. You could buy all that stuff but it'd be just an enormous amount of over kill and lots of money spent.

i already have a 10 vane pump. it looks great but should i put new vanes or any other new parts in it?

As long as the pocket is in good shape then all you need to do is put the new seals in it. Only put new vanes in if you mic yours and theyre out of spec per the ATSG manual. Watch out for the slide return spring since its a PIA to get back in there.

should i do any drilling for the front seal or any other mods to the pump?

Check the fluid return hole in behind the front pump bushing where the TC rides per the ATSG manual if its too small then drill it. Ive never seen a later model unit blow the front seal out due to this but the old mid 80s would for some reason. I drill em all if they are too small just to be safe and havent had an issue yet.

BTW, I cant remember if the ATSG manual mentions it but with the later model pumps (~86-up) there is a "lip" cast into the front pump cover that indexes the front pump to TC bushing. If yours has this lip, and its hard to see, do NOT drive the bushing out from the back side/pocket side. If you do the pump is scrap so to be safe when you drive the bushing out lay the front half of the pump on the work bench pocket side down and drive the bushing out from the front. That make sense?

i have a 93 vette servo assembly and was considering buying the billet 3-4 servo since i would like to tow in od.

Those parts should provide you with the capability to do so.

the guru at raybestos wants me to use the "z-pack".

I dont think it would hurt you if you want to spend the money but IMO I think itd be over kill for your application. Save your money and put the biggest/most honkin trans cooler in front of the radiator you can find and youll be good to go IMO.

HTH