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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Nov 2011
      Location
      Glendale, AZ
      Posts
      251
      Country Flag: United States

      where do you go to drive better?

      So I've read a ton on this forum (thank you Larry) and learned an spent a lot of money on how to get my Camaro to perform as best as it can on my budget.



      Now the question is where is a good resource to learn how to actually drive the car to its full potential? A lot of good drivers are defensive, but to me i want to drive in a mythodical aggressive manner (not the road rafe type) Are there books? Classes? I live near Bondurant, but not sure that is the route to go.


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Jun 2008
      Location
      Greenwood, Indiana
      Posts
      271
      Country Flag: United States

      where do you go to drive better?

      This last weekend at RTTH they had an autocross driving class that everyone loved. It sounds like the American street car series is going to add these classes to some of there events.

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Mar 2004
      Location
      Mid-Michigan
      Posts
      2,764
      Country Flag: United States
      Bring the car to Michigan and drive it on I96 between Farmington and Milford. East or West bound, doesn't matter... Do the 275 loop to 96 at Novi. That'll learn you a thing or two. And you'll also more then likely drive MUCH better then 99% of those Jack-wagons doing their phone call/texting/mouth-breathing impersonation of the driving dead... Sorry, was I ranting????

      Now, seriously, if you want to learn to do it right, you should take a few classes. There is no better way to learn other then having someone teach you how to do it and then going out and doing it...
      Mark:
      "Bad Ast" Astro Van. Just because I did it... Doesn't mean it's possible...
      This my Bad Ast thread...
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...roject-Faze-II
      This is my Fotki album...
      http://astroracer.fotki.com/

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      Location
      Southlake, TX
      Posts
      96
      Country Flag: United States
      When I was in high school 30 years ago, I remember reading books by Jacky Stewart and Mark Donahue that completely changed the way I thought about cornering and braking. I'm sure there are hundreds of books out now on the subjects. I remember going to the go kart "slick Track" with my new found knowledge and lapping the field every time I went out. I guess because Cars sucked, people really weren't very good drivers back then.

      Even Today, though I'm still surprised when there is a go kart track outing with "car guys" the truly awful lines some take because they think "the shortest distance around a curve is always faster".

      Learning theory from books is cheap and will prep you for track days or autoxs which are way cheaper than driving schools and will give your more track time per buck, because track time is where the real learning happens.
      Chris Bischof
      My G-body homepage
      '86 Pontiac 2+2 ORR car, '86 Regal T-type, '86 GN, '89 TTA, '13 GTHIG 5.0
      SORC 115 mph Class Winner '07, '10, '11, '13, '15

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Jul 2006
      Location
      Pensacola, FL
      Posts
      1,264
      Country Flag: United States
      I agree with flyboy77- I learned a ton in just one weekend at RTTH. I would def attend the driving school at every ASCS event if its offered. Lots of seat time and the instructors were great- who better to learn from that the 4 or 5 fastest guys on the track. And if was a blast.

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
      Posts
      3,029
      Country Flag: United States
      Learn to autocross. Most SCCA regions do a school at the begining of the season. After that attend an EVO school (on my list for next year). Driving school seems expensive but it is cheaper than parts. If you can manage your car on an autocross, track days are a walk in the park.....comparatively speaking.

      That's my theory anyways.
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Nov 2011
      Location
      Glendale, AZ
      Posts
      251
      Country Flag: United States

      where do you go to drive better?

      Again, thanks for all the direction. I've watched autocross quite a bit and I guess I just need to be "that guy" that is an obvious rookie until I learn. Seems like the RTTH is pretty awesome. Is it a common event? Do they ever do it in AZ?

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Mar 2009
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      1,240
      Country Flag: United States
      There are no ASCS events in Arizona, though there are other events in Las Vegas, like LS Fest, and the Mopar car show (open to non-mopars oddly enough.)


      I highly suggest NASA open track days. In HPDE 1, you'll get an instructor to ride along with you who should be very helpful. I've found that NASA instructors, who tend to be actual competitive racers, are generally more credible than the average instructor at the average open track day.

      Also, ditto to this:

      Quote Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
      When I was in high school 30 years ago, I remember reading books by Jacky Stewart and Mark Donahue that completely changed the way I thought about cornering and braking. I'm sure there are hundreds of books out now on the subjects. I remember going to the go kart "slick Track" with my new found knowledge and lapping the field every time I went out. I guess because Cars sucked, people really weren't very good drivers back then.

      Even Today, though I'm still surprised when there is a go kart track outing with "car guys" the truly awful lines some take because they think "the shortest distance around a curve is always faster".

      Learning theory from books is cheap and will prep you for track days or autoxs which are way cheaper than driving schools and will give your more track time per buck, because track time is where the real learning happens.
      Brett H.

      1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
      1991 Mazda Miata
      2005 Ford Mustang GT

      1987 Ford Mustang GT - Sold 06-29-2014
      1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera - RIP 9-17-2011
      1992 Chevrolet Corvette - Sold 10-12-2017

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Nov 2011
      Location
      Glendale, AZ
      Posts
      251
      Country Flag: United States
      Thanks Brett- I will definitly check that out. It sounds like a blast.

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Mar 2005
      Location
      westchester county new york
      Posts
      2,995
      You really have the right idea, unless your day job involves a helmet and pit crew you are likely the slowest part of your car...Do a track day,get some instruction,read some books. Smooth and safe to start, then add speed.

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Jul 2009
      Location
      Sackville, NB, Canada
      Posts
      166
      Country Flag: Canada
      Auto-X is a good place to start because when you screw up there's a lower risk of destroying your ride with an off-track excursion. You can find your limits there and then you'll know how far you can safely push it at the track later on. There are rookies at every auto-x event - I wouldn't worry about looking slow.
      Tyson
      '95 Firebird Formula: suspension + 315's
      '66 Mustang Coupe, 289

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      Fayetteville, NC
      Posts
      195
      Country Flag: United States

      where do you go to drive better?

      I was a rookie at this years RTTH. I didn't let that deter me from pushing my car to it's limits as well as mine. I learned ton. I look forward to learning all I can.
      Brian Peacoe

      68 Camaro Heidts Subframe and 4 link. 2015 LS3, T56.

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,214
      Country Flag: United States
      Where are you on the west coast? Is Ventura county a long drive for you?
      -James

      1974 Z28 SCCA C Prepared
      1990 Firebird NASA CMC
      2005 Mustang GT SCCA F-Street (new for 2015)
      1989 Civic Si SCCA STC

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Oct 2004
      Location
      Macon, Ga.
      Posts
      8,085
      Country Flag: United States
      There are programs all over the country. I am more familiar with those on the east side, like 10/10s, evolution, NASA, and yes Get Started Racing. I am sure there is at least a NASA chapter near you. Our ASCS has been working with Get Started Racing to try and have a day of instruction at several of our events next year. It would suit what you are looking for, a day of simple instruction that explains the basics of autocrossing in a way no one would feel intimidated. It is designed specifically to make you not be "that guy" at say a Goodguys autocross.
      The best training you can get though is seat time and more seat time. Remember, everyone was a rookie at one time. Go to local events, learn all you can and improve your times each run, don't worry about how much faster the others are, that will come in time.

      The main thing is........... Get out there and DRIVE!!!
      Bill

      Trailers are for BOATS!

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,604
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Brett
      I highly suggest NASA open track days. In HPDE 1, you'll get an instructor to ride along with you who should be very helpful. I've found that NASA instructors, who tend to be actual competitive racers, are generally more credible than the average instructor at the average open track day.
      x2. If you want to learn to drive fast, go NASA. Another thing I've done a few times is to drive late model Corvettes at Spring Mountain (near Las Vegas, NV) in the Ron Fellows driving schools. Corvettes are similar to our pro-touring cars (high horsepower, rear drive) and are great to learn with. Plus, you're beating the hell out of someone else's car.

      I'd get some instruction -- driving just to drive might lead you to learn some bad habits that are later hard to unlearn. Hand position, shifting technique, etc.
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Location
      Central California
      Posts
      2,050
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Fras View Post
      Again, thanks for all the direction. I've watched autocross quite a bit and I guess I just need to be "that guy" that is an obvious rookie until I learn. Seems like the RTTH is pretty awesome. Is it a common event? Do they ever do it in AZ?
      Everybody that you see autocrossing was "that rookie newbie guy" at one time! AZ SCCA has an excellent Solo program and I think they run at Firebird Raceway a lot. Just let the folks know you're new when you register and they'll get your learning curve up and ramped much faster than if you go at it cold.

      What's interesting and probably good is I find my street driving is much less aggressive from driving Autocross and track events, not more. My defensive driving skills are much improved from miles of "looking ahead and thru corners" which equates to looking thru traffic patterns and keeping my exits open. It's a win-win no matter what ...

      Mary Pozzi
      mpozzi . . . '73 Camaro RS, '69 Camaro SCCA/Trans-Am vintage racer, and a 1989 R7U 1LE Players Challenge car.

      "STICK, you B*TCH!!!!!!"

      "It's not a horse. You can't train it!! "


    17. #17
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,604
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Mary
      What's interesting and probably good is I find my street driving is much less aggressive from driving Autocross and track events, not more.
      Me too. I also find myself teaching patience and look-ahead/behind to my teenagers as they learn. And my kids drive 9-3 on the steering wheel.
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Apr 2005
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      4,462
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by mpozzi View Post
      What's interesting and probably good is I find my street driving is much less aggressive from driving Autocross and track events, not more. My defensive driving skills are much improved from miles of "looking ahead and thru corners" which equates to looking thru traffic patterns and keeping my exits open. It's a win-win no matter what ...

      Mary Pozzi
      Me too , I drive like a Grandpa on public roads nowdays ..
      Track driving makes me realize that the public streets is a no place to drive fast , only the track is safe enough to do that sort of thing .
      Jeff Tate
      U.S.A.
      "The best thing about participating in these events is that you get to hang out with a group of intelligent like minded people who live to achieve things in their lives. You won't find a lazy, mean, or dumb bone in their bodies." Bret Voelkel, RideTech

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Fredericksburg, VA.
      Posts
      3,164
      Country Flag: United States
      I raced karts for several years and I can tell you that there is no substitute for seat time. I can also say that my racing experience has made me a safer, much more aware street driver. Also, if you look close at the engine you can see I was running a Briggs&Stratton class. With only about 9 HP available, one learns to be very smooth and use the brakes sparingly. Just a side note, this kart with B&S power has run 100mph on the straights at Summit Point.

      Name:  K86.jpg
Views: 399
Size:  62.9 KB

      All that said, I plan to attend some NASA events and SCCA autocross schools next year. Just an FYI, for those of us who live in the mid-atlantic region, Summit Point also offers a Friday At The Track (FATT) driving experience complete with instructors for $250.

      http://www.summitpointfatt.com/
      Steve Hayes
      "Dust Off"
      68 Camaro

      Support the RPM Act
      https://www.sema.org/rpm-faq.

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Apr 2005
      Location
      Colorado Springs
      Posts
      760
      Quote Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
      I guess because Cars sucked, people really weren't very good drivers back then.

      There are still a lot of bad drivers out there today,heck, maybe even more. They just havebetter cars that help cover up their mistakes better now.

      Look for events with a local SCCA or NASA chapter. This is a good way to actually get in a place that is supervised where you can't get into a lot of trouble. You may be outclassed, but getting a feel for your car is very worthwhile regardless.
      TonyC@HP2

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