Best ways to Improve Muscle Car Safety

[Simmo]

Wanting to incorporate safety into my build as much as possible, wondering what others have done sucessfully, and what new products/ideas are floating around stateside. I've gone through the old thread but im sure something has happened in the last 5 years. Car will be 80% street 20% track.

Whats the general consensus and or pros/cons on the following:-
- 3 point web grabbers
- Harnesses (hopefully wont hit the dash VV - internal injury trade off?)
- Interior Mods (steel dash etc)
- "Old school" glass
- Steering Wheels/Columns/Shafts
- Head Restraints
- Side Impact Protection (w & w/o cage/roll bar)
- Bonnet Decapitation Protection
- Fire Protection
- Fuel/Electrical cut off ideas

I'd prefer to leave the roll bar/cage debate alone as it just becomes a sh*t fight. Each to their own - no rear seats in an Elco anyway

[Gitter Dun]

80% street and 20% track means basically you are mostly on the street and the level of driving on the track will be purely more for fun then at a competitive level which IMO would not require a cage. Seats are important and Corbeau is probably the best way to go for the money. A 3 point harness should be sufficient that way you have a choice of wearing the two over the shoulder harnesses or just the lap belt.

I have two '69 Camaro's. One I basically set up for street but still has an 8 point cage only because I bought it that way but I would like to show you a pic of the seats and 3 point harnessess. The other was built for road race only so no point in discussing that one.

Everything else you mentioned I dont feel is needed only because of the amount of track time you intend on using the car.

[Greg from Aus]

I believe that if you track the car at all, the more safety items the better, as bad luck doesn't choose its target by percentages, 20% or 100% it doesn't matter.

Greg

[The WidowMaker]

collapsible steering column, softening all areas around your body and making sure everything is mounted MUCH better than the factory did. ive seen rear seats ripped out of cars and in the front seat with their mounts either broken or the sheet metal they were attached to torn.

[FatfreeGTO]

I called Ididit today about getting a collapsible column for my 66 and they basically told me "no" LOL. Said the car isn't designed to mount the column, and that it wouldn't collapse in the event of a crash because the mounts aren't strong enough to hold it...

I don't know, this doesn't sit well with me. I want the collapsible column and a collapsible shaft. Been trying to figure this out for a few days now. 67 GTO's came with them...

I know that Tim put one in his 70 chevelle but yours came from the factory with the proper mount.

[Flash68]

Good thread topic and something I've starting paying a lot more attention to with my car and allocating more $ to safety items lately before any major performance upgrades.

I've been in a car that caught fire so a fire suppression system in on my list, and I already have acquired a full fire proof head to toe protection system for my body for track days.

There are varying arguments about roll bar padding but I would definitely consider putting them on the bars that are directly near your body parts, and not just your head.

Is the collapsible steering column idea to protect more on the street with only a lap belt? Is that the idea?

[solarguy09]

Great thread.

My plan is street driving and some Auto Cross, ..No Roll Bar.

But , before going to the track for some Serious Driving, I am going to have Steve at East Bay Muscle Cars, set me up with a Roll Bar..

And the fire suit is on the list... Unless I just plan to cruise around the track, haha No way, it is lets see what me and the car can do...WOOT !

But it is an on going project, and I haven't done the interior yet...

Safety is important..

[FatfreeGTO]

I personally like the idea of the collapsible column just from seeing my existing column taken apart. I have a 3/4" shaft that is 5' long sitting right in front of my chest that will not move if I hit it. The only protection I see myself having in my car is if the steering wheel absorbs the hit from my body but most likely that won't happen. Either way they have been federally mandated since 1968 simply because of the number of serious injuries or deaths associated with hitting the column before that. The retrofit column companies are selling non-collapsible columns to people who had a column from the factory that was designed to collapse and that is not right.

I did get a set of Morris 3 point seat belts so that is something that will help, I have late model GTO seats with headrests, 4 wheel disc brakes, and that is pretty much it. I only have a street car so I won't have a cage or anything like that.

[The WidowMaker]

The retrofit column companies are selling non-collapsible columns to people who had a column from the factory that was designed to collapse and that is not right.

ididit doesnt like me very much. i made them take back my self modified, non collapsible shaft and build me a custom collapsible one after i found out what they were doing. i too dont think its right to sell an uneducated customer something that is less safe then what they have. it makes it even worse that the feds madated it in 68 as stated above. its nothing new.

the collapsible shafts collapse in both directions. it will absorb impact from you and add another buffer to keep the shaft from hitting you. even with 3 pt harnesses you would be suprised how much and how far you can move. a steering wheel impact with 3pts wouldnt be unheard of imho.

[Simmo]

80% street and 20% track means basically you are mostly on the street and the level of driving on the track will be purely more for fun then at a competitive level which IMO would not require a cage. Seats are important and Corbeau is probably the best way to go for the money. A 3 point harness should be sufficient that way you have a choice of wearing the two over the shoulder harnesses or just the lap belt.

I have two '69 Camaro's. One I basically set up for street but still has an 8 point cage only because I bought it that way but I would like to show you a pic of the seats and 3 point harnessess. The other was built for road race only so no point in discussing that one.

Everything else you mentioned I dont feel is needed only because of the amount of track time you intend on using the car.

Hey, followed your build-up of the #2 Camaro, cool car, like to build one similar some day!

Cheers for your thoughts and pics. IMO regardless of the type of driving, if you can improve safety at all you should. For these old cars I feel it's even more important, providing there is no detrimental side-effect. Might seem a tad overkill to some, but I've given my Angels a hell of a workload in 2011, which if it wasn't for the air ambulance chopper (what we call a helicopter over here, not a poor attempt at building a motorcycle lol) I would have bled to death internally. I didn't have to wear a $1500 Helmet, a $3000 one piece, $1000 boots, back protector, gloves etc for a short one hour ride, but I'd have likely died if I didn't. So yeah, my point is I've pussied out lol.

I've also had a engine fire in a Supra I once owned, pulled into the shed to do an oil change and hello...oil from a turbo line return dripping onto the exhaust manifold (not my handywork!) on fire, which if it wasn't for the extinguisher on hand it could have taken the shed and house as well!

So I guess the aim is to make the car as safe as possible on the track, without rendering it un-compliable on the streets. My last modern V8 had airbags, crumple zones, side impact beams and thats just the start of it. My goal is to make the El Camino faster, so I figure I should do my best to make it safer too

[Simmo]

collapsible steering column, softening all areas around your body and making sure everything is mounted MUCH better than the factory did. ive seen rear seats ripped out of cars and in the front seat with their mounts either broken or the sheet metal they were attached to torn.

Hi Tim, kinda wish I never read your build thread...haha it's been quite a motivation for my garage build. Was thinking of replicating your/the HPI customs frame "frame". A discussion with Marcus swayed me to the roll bar/cage way (as I'm not sacrificing seat room or anything) so I'm stuck as to to which route to take and I need to make a decision soon. Did you do any tests to determine rigidity/weight aside from on the rotiserrie?

Being a 68 I have a stock GM collapsible shaft, but I'm interested in more modern equivalents that might enable binning the large coupler and apparently sharpen up response.

Binning the steel steering wheel is on the list too

Just to clarify, we call a 3 point web clamp an inertia reel that clamps the webbing where it outputs the reel as opposed to locking the centre of the reel, which eliminates the "stretch" when the webbing tightens against itself. Differentiating it from a 3 point harness, or the traditional 3 point lap/diagonal. So it's still a toss up between web clamps or harnesses. I've seen harness bars (the retrofit types that bolt into the upper mount) but I'm not real convinced that in an accident they wouldn't bend, negating the benefits of the harness in the first place. So the next option for mounting appears to be a roll bar?

[ace_xp2]

I'd thought web clamp based systems were computer controlled... Are they mechanical like an inertia wheel?

[The WidowMaker]

i never did any real testing on the frame. i tested it on the rotisserie and found some interesting mockup/models where guys applied numbers. its not a roll cage, but i bet it provides more than the nay sayers would ever believe.

there has always been an interesting discussion on restraint systems. i tend to believe that a little give is a VERY good thing. doing the math shows HUGE g force reductions when your body moves just a little extra. i dont want to hit the steering wheel, doors, A post or roof supports, but id rather be as close to 1/8th away as possible. my organs will like me a lot more.

[Simmo]

I'd thought web clamp based systems were computer controlled... Are they mechanical like an inertia wheel?

The ones I'm referring to are, it's a requirement to replace traditional inertia reels with these if they ever require replacement over here.

[Simmo]

i never did any real testing on the frame. i tested it on the rotisserie and found some interesting mockup/models where guys applied numbers. its not a roll cage, but i bet it provides more than the nay sayers would ever believe.

there has always been an interesting discussion on restraint systems. i tend to believe that a little give is a VERY good thing. doing the math shows HUGE g force reductions when your body moves just a little extra. i dont want to hit the steering wheel, doors, A post or roof supports, but id rather be as close to 1/8th away as possible. my organs will like me a lot more.

Fair enough, it would certainly eliminate many of the drama's involved with doing the roll bar/cage. I'll see how much patience I have for it lol.

Follow you re; internal injuries. The challange would be getting it right first time!

[The WidowMaker]

Follow you re; internal injuries. The challange would be getting it right first time!

correct. and i dont know where you would start. there are just way too many variables to take into account.

[rustomatic]

I noticed that nobody mentioned brakes here. Where is that part of the discussion? On that note, in searching for gas-friendly cars lately, I've found that many still come with drum brakes in the rear; this serves as a highly contrary point to what most do on this site, relative to brakes (and it's comforting for dorks like me, who still have drum brakes on their old cars)...

Many, if not all of your ideas seem to be centered on either being clobbered, or being involved in a large impact/collision; there should of course be the issue of avoidance here, while you're actually driving, which brings on the point of brakes. How much brake is sufficient? Do you need pizza-sized rotors?

On the point of added steel in the car, like in a roll bar, take apart the door of a police cruiser. You'll find horizontal steel bars. I only added steel to my Falcon for the chassis stiffening benefits, but the idea of impact resistance does occur, moving or stationary...

[ace_xp2]

The ones I'm referring to are, it's a requirement to replace traditional inertia reels with these if they ever require replacement over here.

That's pretty awesome, I would think due to these vehicles having the tendency to squish in unfortunate areas, this would be a great application for web clamps. You just never know how these cars are going to crush.

[Simmo]

Yeah definately a good point! I just hadn't included it as that base is already covered in my build (355mm rotors and 6 piston calipers up front, explorer style rear discs on the 9 inch out back). Most probably overkill but thats the whole idea!

I havn't seen retrofitted side impact bars, as an alternative for the cage it has to be a great idea..I've had Honda's with them so they're not limited to law enforcement! I'm not sure how much goes into strengthening them into the door structure and I think that would be the main issue, hoping not to do more harm than good with them.

I do know they use panel seal to stop the door skin rattle against the bar which can be a bit of a PITA to get the door skin straight when blocking (dont ask lol).

[Simmo]

That's pretty awesome, I would think due to these vehicles having the tendency to squish in unfortunate areas, this would be a great application for web clamps. You just never know how these cars are going to crush.

After about 30mins of Googling..here ya go!
http://www.autoliv.com/wps/wcm/conne...s/belt+grabber