Question for the PT crowd?

[SRD art]

Here's some motorvation...

[SRD art]

Not meaning to disagree in a negative way...

I agree on some of those points, but I'm hearing the Skipper saying he wants something that stands out in a crowd, does ok in performance, and something he can feel good about cruising everywhere. It sounds like the price is right and hopefully since it was a project it was done somewhat right.

I agree, the earlier cars are better looking but if you google these years there are very few photos of rodded 65s but plenty of the earlier cars. Looks like the 65s are more unique.

Lot's of chrome. But, if it's old and ugly, just paint it! I've got a picture in my mind of the car done that'd prolly make some folks soil their shorts in surprise!

[M.P.G.]

I am nobody in the protouring world. I dont even have an OLD car. I have a very nice and pretty quick 95 cobra. and always had somewhat newer cars that I built "protouring".
So my advise means nothing, BUT I think it's cool as hell to see something different. I never look at the resale of a car I just do it up 4 me.
I personally am not a huge fan of those cars, But if it holds a spot for you than go 4 it. and if it turns out like that last pic of the orange t-bird
than that will be an easy sale. just my .02

[zombiekiller]

I'm a bit biased, as I'm building a big ford, BUT, I'll say this...

I'm tired of late 60s camaros and mustangs being all that you see built up.

I've been reaching out to some different smaller MFGs for help with aftermarket support. It'll come as more and more of the mid 60s bigger fords come into favor. there are not many mid 60s cars that are buildable for your average joe any more. Things like galaxies or Tbirds are great looking cars and are still attainable.

Then again, i'm stuck building fords. My FIL was one of the Sr. Engineers responsible for the US and Austrailian versions of the falcon. He worked for ford for 53 years.

My Galaxie will get some home brew engineering, but for the most part, the suspension will handle well. I have no illusions of winning a track day, but in my definition of PT, touring is at the forefront, not cone killing.

Be a bit different, stick out like a sore thumb.
"
With chrome in mind, pick and choose what you rechrome and what you shave. I'm keeping my hood " mohawk" as it was a weird option in 66 and not many cars got it. I'll be shaving the rocker and wheel well moldings though.

YMMV

[The Stickman]

Take it from a guy with a station wagon- I love to go to P-T events, but I have no dreams of beating anyone. I recently finished 20th out of 32 cars at the Heidts event in Joliet. A friend asked if I felt bad finishing 20th out of 32 cars, and I told him I feel worse for the 12 cars that got beat by a station wagon than I do for myself.

I push my car as hard as I'm capable, and my driving talent is just as limited as my car's performance is. I have no aspirations of greatness, but I have more fun than should be allowed. The great thing is that the events teach you to be prepared and how to tune your car. I just won the Car Craft RSE because none of the big players with F-bodies showed up, and my car was ready to do it's best in every event. I won 2 of the 3 events and the RSE title because my crew chief and I knew how to tune the car for each challenge. We got the max out of it, and knew we'd done our best. In this case, that was enough (just barely) to win. All the other events were worth this education.

And yet you did win an event. So is it really all that impossible? And who says you need to compete with anyone to do a track day or AutoX with you car? These events are all about having fun with the cars we like. This is not the SCCA Nationals. They are supposed to be events where we can have fun thrashing our cars the way we want with like minded individuals. When I get on track or AutoX I want to improve myself to be better. And in doing so I learn more about driving and what my car wants and how to make it better. If we get to the point where all this is just a competition then there are only going to be a choice few vehicles chosen because those are the only ones that can compete. Again I say build what you want, the way you want, and drive it when and where you want. I have been taking odd vehicles and making them run(and yes even compete) for 17 years now. I took an S-10 and made alot of much more expensive sports cars look silly back then. It was good enough to win a championship in ESP with a V-6 in what was then considered the muscle car class. So you can do whatever you set your mind to.

[nekkidhillbilly]

all for it

but i would keep something like a 390 in it

[Off Duty]

I wouldn't do it Gordon. For several reasons. I like the "unusual" builds, and I do like 61-66 T-birds, BUT......

1. Although we don't expect to ever get our money back out of these types of cars, the unusual vehicles take an even bigger hit than the more popular models, and take much longer to sell if you decide you want out. The more heavily modified the car is, the harder it is to find that one person who wants it. I don't think there's a line of buyers waiting to buy fully PTed versions of a 65 T-bird. How much time & money do you think the gentleman that passed away had in the car already vs. what it is for sale for?


My thought is not that much.
The car ran, was prepped and ready for paint, and the interior was next on his list, when he passed.
I've never owned or built a car or bike, with the intent of selling. That's the last thing that crosses my mind, if it enters the picture at all.
I didn't really make anything on my 87 vette when sold. As a matter of fact, I lost money.
But I also had several years of head turning, knuckle whitening, tooth grinning fun with the car!
In the end, when you add it all up in dollars and cents, I lost. When you take the enjoyment, the wow factor, and the friends I made through the association with the car, I made out like a bandit!

2. The finishing of a car with the mods discussed above will take time, LOTS of time. Unless you have a shop build it, or have a tremendous amount of free time, 1-2-3 or more years would be a rather speedy build of the scope mentioned in posts above. The grandaughter will be years older before you can even drive the car. She will reach an age where hanging with friends will probably take priority over car shows with gramps in how long? Meanwhile instead of taking her to car shows or whatever with your free time you'll be wrenching.

well chit!
Thanks for the buzz kill bro

Seriously, although you're correct if I were planning a frame off resto or total remake.

For the immediate future, I'll keep it simple.
Get the old buzzard running, get a set of bags under her, and some paint on it's wings.
From there, you can build as you have the time and resources.

The fact is, I can probably have it painted and running in a few months.
It certainly won't be the "dream cruiser" I've depicted here, but hell, I don't have that kind of disposable $$$$ laying around anyway.

Being the sole breadwinner in a family with 4 adults and 1 child, ain't all that and a bag O' chips

Although I don't have a shop to work in, I do have access to a couple of friends shops that are willing to let me park it there, and help me work on it.
One mechanical and one paint & body.
The P&B guy is a huge custom car guy, and really knows his stuff. He's already helping me start on my son's 87 Grand National, and my 89 Landcruiser wagon.
I also have access to a custom "rod shop" which certainly won't hurt.
Rather than buying a lot of parts 'off the shelf', we'll probably do some experimentation and fabricate what we can.

As for the car shows, I've NEVER attended a show with the intent of winning.
I don't have the $$$$ to win, nor am I anal retentive enough to care.
The hours of polishing and waxing, matching part numbers, and all that crap, just isn't me.

I truly appreciate those that do, and respect what it takes.
But it's not for me.

I've always gone for the friends, the "cause" (used to do a lot of children's fundraisers), or the locale. If it was a beautiful venue, close the water...I was there!

Heck, one night I attended a children's fundraiser in Bradenton.
It was a last minute thing, and I took the old 87 vette.
I didn't even bother to wash the road dirt off, and parked it in a corner.
I registered for the show to make a donation and got a dash plaque.
At that point, I was done, and went off with my buds for Hooters and cokes.

At the end of the night....I WON!
Don't even remember why, but it was funnier than hell

I'll continue in that vein, and take the family with me.
Besides, who know? Might take another "Rat Rod" trophy again

3. Since you did mention you're a grandpa, we can assume you're not 20-25-30 years old with many decades of time for future builds. Whats the realistic likelyhood of building another car that you really like AFTER a build of the T-bird with the scope discussed previously? Would it make sense to get in a car with a higher initial cost that you could enjoy immediately? With the costs of a frame, suspension, driveline, wheels/tires, and paint job added to the initial cost of the car you will probably be in it for 20 thousand or more . You could buy a nice driver of a model that you like more than the T-bird, and slowly make mods that will improve handling, speed, and braking WHILE you enjoy driving it to shows, events, etc.

See above
At this time, I have:
87 GN and an 89 Landcruiser FJ62, that are both undergoing mods.
The 87 GN is not a driver.
The 89 Landcruiser is. As a matter of fact, the grandbaby and I are planning some canoe/kayak trips, "yuppie" camping (Say Disney), and some explorations of the State of Florida and some of it's off the road, back road towns in the very near future. All in that Land cruiser, or "Crusher" as it's lovingly known.

And yes, I'll be 55 in October.
Time?
Who knows?
My dad lived to be 93 before a stroke got him and in 3 days, he was gone.
Up to that point, he drove daily, maintained his own affairs, and had full faculties and mobility.

Many of the guys that hang around the shops I've mentioned, and even more that attend the events, are in their 50's through their late 70's, and still building hotrods.
With any luck, by the grace of God go I

You never know when your ticket's going to get punched.
Between 30 years total as a LEO, my military history, and present occupations and interests, I've had more than one occasion to think "well, it's been a hell of a ride!"

The fact is, I could go buy a new Camaro, mod it up a bit, throw on some nice rims and tires, and drive cross country with absolutely no concern(with a AAA card of course).
And I'd blend into the countryside like everyone else.

One day, the right 2nd gen will come along, and I'll pull the trigger on that to. But for now, I'm really diggin' the "lead sled" appeal of this ride. FWIW, I've always had a little place in my heart for the old school buzzards.
A neighbor had a pristine early model (61?). Always drooled over that thing.
So it's not something I'm unfamiliar with.

4. CHROME! Lots of it, and it's expensive to have redone. Have you really looked at how much chrome is on/in a 65? I would not be surprised at a bill for several thousand dollars to get all the chrome redone. The bumpers are massive and the interior of 65's are overloaded with chrome. With the humidity where you live constant care of the replated chrome will be mandatory if you expect to keep it nice.

You make a great point.
If I were going for a resto-mod, or cared about the chrome, then I'd be concerned.
MY actual thought was to powder coat a good bit of it.

Remember my earlier statement?
I'm too damned lazy to be polishing acres of chrome and too ADD to care.

MY OPINIONS: If you're dead set on building a 61-66 T-bird you might want to look at the slightly earlier ones. I prefer the exterior lines and interior styling of the 61-63's with the curved dash that wraps into the door panels creating a "pod" on each side of the console for the driver and front seat passenger. You really have to sit in one to appreciate it, very comforting. The 61-3 front end seems more gracefull and appears more aerodynamic from the side because of the way the front fenders come to a point on the sides of the headlights. I also like rear fender wingettes and the jet engine inspired tail lights. I'd only do a vert in any of the 61-66 cars. In my opinion, that generation of T-birds look like they were designed as verts and then they stuck a hardtop on them.

In all seriousness my friend, thank you for all your input.
As you know, I've followed a lot of your stuff on here and the posts on our Florida Musclecar site as well (on there, I'm "Off Duty"), and respect your ability and candor

I too like the lines of the 60-63 T-bird, but I'm set on the 64-7 unless something falls in my lap.

The 60-3's are indeed very sleek and graceful. Almost as thought they're gliding sitting still.
They sort of remind me of a snow sled from the front.
And the round lights are definite a plus.

But the bottom line is, I've found 2 projects, both 65's, and they're in my price range.
Besides, after looking at the square bodies, I really like the look.
And you just don't see that many of these model years customized.

You have to remember, I've had a 63 Impala, 60's Nova, and a couple of 77 grand prix.
I like the big square bodies.

I don't have the time, money, and for the most part, the interest, to go racing anymore, so I think this is going to suit me just fine.

[Scott Parkhurst]

And yet you did win an event. So is it really all that impossible? And who says you need to compete with anyone to do a track day or AutoX with you car? These events are all about having fun with the cars we like. This is not the SCCA Nationals. They are supposed to be events where we can have fun thrashing our cars the way we want with like minded individuals. When I get on track or AutoX I want to improve myself to be better. And in doing so I learn more about driving and what my car wants and how to make it better. If we get to the point where all this is just a competition then there are only going to be a choice few vehicles chosen because those are the only ones that can compete. Again I say build what you want, the way you want, and drive it when and where you want. I have been taking odd vehicles and making them run(and yes even compete) for 17 years now. I took an S-10 and made alot of much more expensive sports cars look silly back then. It was good enough to win a championship in ESP with a V-6 in what was then considered the muscle car class. So you can do whatever you set your mind to.

I hear ya pal. You make some strong points. I just wanted to warn the guy a bit...but having fun requires no warning.

For what its worth, I'd love to see him finish this car, and run it against someone in a similarly-built 63-65 Riviera. 2 of my favorite cars ever...

[Off Duty]

all for it

but i would keep something like a 390 in it

Thanks man.
The possibilities are endless, and at this point, all speculation.

I think it has a 390 in it now.
I'd like to go modern for the dependability, reliability, easier power and economy.
The ability to get in at a moments notice, turn the key, and drive as far as the fuel holds out.

On the flip side, a radical TT or blown 390 would be kick ass.

[chaz75]

I say do it,cant be that hard if you really want to do it, im getting tired or camaros and mustangs all the time even though i really like them, so screw'em and build it.

[Off Duty]

I forgot to mention.
Although I prefer the look of a convertible, and being in Florida, there's almost year round use for one, there are two reasons why I choose not to go that route.

1) I'm burned out with chasing leaks and wind noise!
My 87 vette, although it was a targa, still leaked and creaked.
My 2000 Z28 was a convertible. Overall it was pretty tight, but in a heavy rain, it leaked.

2) I'm BALD!
After way too many years of sun overexposure, the doc has "suggested" that I wear a cover any time I'm outside...which is most of the time.
Thus the reason when you see me, I'll probably have on a Barmah Outback hat, Buffett baseball cap, or a drivers cap, depending on the event.
I seldom go outside without something these days.
That said, I don't want to have to chase it down when it blows off!

I'll stick to the HT's.

[Off Duty]

Going to look at the buzzard today.
I need the break from what's going on now anyway, and there's nothing I can do:(

I'll try to post some phone pics up tonight.

[SRD art]

Good luck, hope it lives up to your expectations...

[Off Duty]

Thanks.

[406 Q-ship]

Gordon, what a great find. I am a died in the wool GM guy but I have always loved the 64-66 birds (my stepdad had one). I think a nice mild spring drop to the suspension, some creative swaybars, and good set of shocks (if anything is available for a 65 T-bird). I would loose the 390 FE (heavy and not really powerful) for a new 5.0 Ford crate engine (very sweet engine) with an AODE on the back (the 65 will probably have 3.00 gear) would make an awesome fun Thunderbird.....or a Funderbird. If you did keep the FE, go with a 428 or with creative parts interchanging a 454 FE, make that heavy bird fly. I don't know about doing CF body parts, that would get very expensive for such unique body style. Even with alot of light weight parts it will still be a 3800-4000 lbs heavy car. I would not pay alot for the car though.

[rogue]

its a cruiser not a hot rod.

[Off Duty]

Gordon, what a great find. I am a died in the wool GM guy but I have always loved the 64-66 birds (my stepdad had one). I think a nice mild spring drop to the suspension, some creative swaybars, and good set of shocks (if anything is available for a 65 T-bird). I would loose the 390 FE (heavy and not really powerful) for a new 5.0 Ford crate engine (very sweet engine) with an AODE on the back (the 65 will probably have 3.00 gear) would make an awesome fun Thunderbird.....or a Funderbird. If you did keep the FE, go with a 428 or with creative parts interchanging a 454 FE, make that heavy bird fly. I don't know about doing CF body parts, that would get very expensive for such unique body style. Even with alot of light weight parts it will still be a 3800-4000 lbs heavy car. I would not pay alot for the car though.

Hey, thanks for all the info
If it's running (or able to be made run quickly), I'll keep what it's got and start working on the body and suspension.
In the end though, there will definitely be a new, late model running gear and power plant

The big thing for me is the way a car handles.
My goal is to make it solid, nimble enough to handle the curves (think mountain roads, etc), and comfortable enough to drive cross country without need of an on board chiropractor.

It's never going to be an auto-x or 1/4 mile contender.

I'm fortunate to have access to a shop and body man that is a true artisan, yet still very reasonable, and loves oddball customs.
And he's willing to let me help out, which is all the better. I don't really have the skills nor tolls, but I do have the vision and a penchant for getting my hands dirty.

But even if we can shave off the weight with CF fenders and hoods, it's still a big mama-jama!

Hopefully, in the end, it'll end up being something different. Something that will turn heads (and not in disgust), and a car that will be fun to drive.

its a cruiser not a hot rod.

That's it!
Low, wide and hopefully faster than the guy next to me thinks

[Off Duty]

Well, work and weather schedules didn't work out, and I didn't get over to see the car:(
Going to shoot for today.

[zombiekiller]

Gordon, what a great find. I am a died in the wool GM guy but I have always loved the 64-66 birds (my stepdad had one). I think a nice mild spring drop to the suspension, some creative swaybars, and good set of shocks (if anything is available for a 65 T-bird). I would loose the 390 FE (heavy and not really powerful) for a new 5.0 Ford crate engine (very sweet engine) with an AODE on the back (the 65 will probably have 3.00 gear) would make an awesome fun Thunderbird.....or a Funderbird. If you did keep the FE, go with a 428 or with creative parts interchanging a 454 FE, make that heavy bird fly. I don't know about doing CF body parts, that would get very expensive for such unique body style. Even with alot of light weight parts it will still be a 3800-4000 lbs heavy car. I would not pay alot for the car though.

Addco makes sway kits for t-birds, or rather sway kits that fit tbirds. RCD makes some nice tuned, adjustable shocks for them too. I'm not sure about off the shelf springs, I'd have to check my books and look at the rates and ID/OD of the springs. Coil Spring Specialties will be happy to make whatever ride height/rate springs you want for about 400 bucks for all four corners.

gordon- if you do move forward with the bird, let me know and i'll share some of my parts research on fitment. I have the same issue that you'll have, an oddball car with not much aftermarket performance support. The upside it, figuring out how to accomplish what you want exercises your brain and breeds some ingenuity! a few of the parts that I'm using also happen to fit t-birds.

There are a few guys that squeeze some BIG horsepower out the FEs, but it'd won't ever be the thin skinny girl at the school dance if you stick with the FE. It'll sound real cool though and pull a stump out of the ground if you chose to.

[Off Duty]

Addco makes sway kits for t-birds, or rather sway kits that fit tbirds. RCD makes some nice tuned, adjustable shocks for them too. I'm not sure about off the shelf springs, I'd have to check my books and look at the rates and ID/OD of the springs. Coil Spring Specialties will be happy to make whatever ride height/rate springs you want for about 400 bucks for all four corners.

gordon- if you do move forward with the bird, let me know and i'll share some of my parts research on fitment. I have the same issue that you'll have, an oddball car with not much aftermarket performance support. The upside it, figuring out how to accomplish what you want exercises your brain and breeds some ingenuity! a few of the parts that I'm using also happen to fit t-birds.

There are a few guys that squeeze some BIG horsepower out the FEs, but it'd won't ever be the thin skinny girl at the school dance if you stick with the FE. It'll sound real cool though and pull a stump out of the ground if you chose to.

Alright! Now we're getting somewhere.
Thanks for the info and the offer, I'll definitely take you up on it!

That's the great part is, if in the end, you meet your goals, knowing that not just anyone could pull it off, then you've done something!
Sort of the same reasons I joined the military and got into law enforcement.
Not everyone could do it!