Barrett Jackson WTF Moments....

[parsonsj]

My point was that buyers using "credit" or a "loan" to purchase the vehicle will spend more, inflating and distorting the 'value' of the purchased car.

I don't follow. I'd say just the opposite: savvy buyers using credit would tend to spend less, since they have to factor in the cost of credit.

[Tony_SS]

All buyer's at BJ are cash buyers.

Certainly there are those coming in with a certified line of credit? That's not cash.

Those buyer's set the market based upon what "they" were willing to pay for that vehicle on that day in the particular auction setting. It takes two to run up the price. Of course one of those two could just be the auctioneer!

This discussion should really center upon where those buyer's obtain that cash to buy the cars. The reality of MY experience of going to BJ for 20 years and meeting a lot of people who buy at this auction is that most of the buyer's are paying with cash money that they have in their accounts. Not many "Home Equity" funded buyer's in this bunch!

Not anymore I would presume!

I don't follow. I'd say just the opposite: savvy buyers using credit would tend to spend less, since they have to factor in the cost of credit.

I'm not so sure the buyers at BJ are all that savvy though. lol But I disagree. I think buyers, no matter what income level, tend to be more careless about purchases when an open line of credit is involved. Take the housing bubble for example.

[twosaturns]

so sick of the barjack auction shows, so overdone, so over the top. and whats with all the bidders looking the same? is the car hobby populated exclusively by 50-60yo white dudes on their 2nd wife?
(that's all meant as a joke, but its got to be one of the least diversified places there is!)

[ProdigyCustoms]

is the car hobby populated exclusively by 50-60yo white dudes on their 2nd wife?
(that's all meant as a joke, but its got to be one of the least diversified places there is!)

I would move that 35 to 60. That is my customer base.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I think the speculation about credit lines is way wrong. I find the buyers to be quite the opposite. People that made their money and want to play.

Personally I thought the prices at OC were low or on the money except for a few stand outs (charity cars do not count). I think Mecum is a way better place for muscle cars. However with that said I am seriously thinking about taking one car to BJ Vegas just because my gut says it will do well there. Besides that one car, I am focused on Mecum auctions.

[wmhjr]

I agree to an extent, the buyer sets the market value and an auction reflects that. But there is one variable that distorts the 'true value'. Credit. These guys are not paying cash, IIRC, you have to be 'credit approved' before you can bid, and credit is what's used to purchase most of the cars, not cash. So that too, affects what these bidders pay. So the loose credit is what drives up the price and does not necessarily reflect actual 'value' per say.

Not buying it. Credit is behind all kinds of major purchases. Homes, property, home improvements, vacations, boats, motorcycles, private aircraft, etc. Certainly credit increases opportunity, which can increase demand. But no more than with almost anything else. Maybe less.

[parsonsj]

I think buyers, no matter what income level, tend to be more careless about purchases when an open line of credit is involved. Take the housing bubble for example.

Ah. I see why you see similarities, but you haven't really established any credible evidence of large-scale financing behind these purchases. I'm with Frank: most of the buyers that I've met at these auctions own their own businesses and have their own reserves of cash.

It's possible that there are lots of leveraged guys out there with signature-based financing buying up cars, but I haven't seen it.

Are you saying that you think we've got a "collector car bubble" ?

[Matt@BOS]

I think the speculation about credit lines is way wrong. I find the buyers to be quite the opposite. People that made their money and want to play.

Personally I thought the prices at OC were low or on the money except for a few stand outs (charity cars do not count). I think Mecum is a way better place for muscle cars. However with that said I am seriously thinking about taking one car to BJ Vegas just because my gut says it will do well there. Besides that one car, I am focused on Mecum auctions.

Quality of cars considered, I thought prices were more or less fair. A few were low, but I thought a majority brought in good money, especially considering the buyer's fee that gets tacked on. This past weekend in OC happened to be one of those events where the cars look much better under the lights on stage, than in the hangers/tents around the fairgrounds. I was more than a bit disappointed by the quality of cars at the event. Just about all of the Camaros there had plenty of urethane wave or orange peel in the paint, obvious touch ups, and a set of 17" wheels thrown on.

Matt

[Flash68]

I don't follow. I'd say just the opposite: savvy buyers using credit would tend to spend less, since they have to factor in the cost of credit.

Savvy buyers? LOL good one.... many might have been savvy in their respective industries or businesses to get the money to play at a BJ auction, but I question the notion that many or most are savvy buyers once they DO get there (contrary to the constant references of "great buy" by the BJ TV announcers every 2nd or 3rd car.... so annoying).

Then again, if you make your money and more to get there with the big boys, then it actually reduces the need for you to actually be savvy. LOL

[Tony_SS]

Not buying it. Credit is behind all kinds of major purchases. Homes, property, home improvements, vacations, boats, motorcycles, private aircraft, etc. Certainly credit increases opportunity, which can increase demand. But no more than with almost anything else. Maybe less.

Which results in inflated prices when a supply is intrinsic and limited.

Ah. I see why you see similarities, but you haven't really established any credible evidence of large-scale financing behind these purchases. I'm with Frank: most of the buyers that I've met at these auctions own their own businesses and have their own reserves of cash.

It's possible that there are lots of leveraged guys out there with signature-based financing buying up cars, but I haven't seen it.

Are you saying that you think we've got a "collector car bubble" ?

It is speculation on my part that BJ buyers are coming with an abundance of open credit to make purchases. On a personal level, I can't images acquaintances admitting they will be buying using credit. I do see them flaunting their purchase in cash though. It is my opinion that a fair (1/3?) portion of these purchases are based on the bidders line of credit. I guess they all could be cash buyers though.. I just find that hard to believe.

I think any sort of collector car bubble deflated in correlation with the housing bubble, due to the drying up of easy credit in the past. IMO the collector car market is a lot more stable and less effected by periods of low interest and easy since they are historical relics with intrinsic value. So no, I don't think we've got a bubble there, I suspect values will continue to steadily rise.

As unpopular as it is, I still believe the right collector cars are a great investment for the savvy buyer. BJ is not where the deals are though, IMO. Bidders are going to pay top dollar there. I think BJ is more of an arena of excess - there's nothing wrong with that though, but I do believe is does inflate and distort values on main street.

[senor_camaro]

yeah and the top seller of saturday was a VW bus for (hold on) $217000- yes thats two hundred and seventeen THOUSAND american dollars for a german built fugly short bus. I mean i thought no one was smoking crack anymore but I guess I'm wrong

Man I almost pissed myself laughing at this comment, lol

damn hippie bus, lol...drop a LS1 in it!

[Vegas69]

I think the speculation about credit lines is way wrong. I find the buyers to be quite the opposite. People that made their money and want to play.

Personally I thought the prices at OC were low or on the money except for a few stand outs (charity cars do not count). I think Mecum is a way better place for muscle cars. However with that said I am seriously thinking about taking one car to BJ Vegas just because my gut says it will do well there. Besides that one car, I am focused on Mecum auctions.

Hope it's better than your last hunch... ha ha

[MarkM66]

I was surprised at the total lack of pro-touring type cars at the OC event.

[MyFriendScott]

my way of watching, turn on the big screen, turn up the stereo, get a good beverage, and watch the cars roll by,

Damn, you too?

[socalfandabodys]

I went and looked over some of the cars in person and was blown away from the lack of build quality. I thought my car had some flaws until I looked at these. There was a 72 Chevelle black with white stripes that went for $18k and it had bubbles and bondo poking through everywhere. I have never seen a car with paint and body issues like this one had. Then there was a orange 69 camaro that went for $55k. the front left corner of the hood was sticking up 1/2 an inch. There were huge dents in the bottom of the rocker. The mirrors were are glazed over and the dash pad was coming unglued from the metal dash. The car had more orange peel and bondo than a maaco paint job. As soon as I'm done with the 66 nova I know where I'm taking it.

[rrunner68]

I've wondered how my Road Runner would be worth if I took it there "as is", brake dust, bug guts and everything.

[crustysack]

[QUOTE]I suspect values will continue to steadily rise.[QUOTE]

As long as you didnt buy your car in 07 or 08 when every single 65-73 muscle car,corvete ,thunderbird was fetching $150,00 at this auction- If you bought then and sold today you lost $100000. The collector car auction is a direct reflection on the state of the economy. Before the market crash/housing crash there were many more people with more disposable income now a collector car is at the bottom of peoples acquisition list. I do agree that a well purchased solid car will certainly go up in value over time,but I would not use one as a retirement grade investment. This is why I built my car to drive as many days as I can.