Tattoos

[Mathius]

First off, I AM looking for opinions, but if you're popping in to say you don't like them, don't want them, don't understand them, you're really in the wrong thread. I have two tattoos, I'm very happy with them, and if I had more money I'd have more.

My question... I've always gone to get tattoos with the mindset that I should get them somewhere where they can be covered up. Currently I'm in a construction trade where it doesn't matter, but I'm also halfway to an associates degree in Applied Industrial Technology as part of my apprenticeship. I'm hoping to continue my education and see just what I can turn that into... an engineering degree, maybe become an architect, honestly I haven't taken the time to look into just what these credits or this degree are best applied to, it's part of my training, but I'm approaching my mid 30's already and I don't know if I want to wear the tools for another 25 years 'til I'm eligible for early retirement at 55/30.

What do you guys think as far as the american public's view on tattoos in a regular work setting? Have we progressed as a nation enough to wear they don't have to be hidden anymore? Obviously tattoos or any body modifications to the face still give a lot of people the vibe that you're a freak of some kind, and I'm not talking so much about the face, but what about say an arm sleeve or something on the hand?



What is your guys take on this?

Mathius

[Happyfunballs]

No place for them in the professional world, but that's JMHO. I would hesitate purchasing millions of dollars worth of equipment from somebody with "kill" tattooed across their knuckles.

[Blown73]

I would say keep them covered. In any industry, you deal with alot of people, and some people don't like tattoos. If you walk into a multi million dollar negotiation with a full sleeve, the prospective client instantly has some form of judgement, whether they like the tattoos or not.

Also, you don't always deal with your peer crowd. I deal with people twice my age, a generation where its not PC to have tattoos.

I like tattoos, but I also think that they should be covered up if you are going to get into an enginnering, construction manager, architect field.

[jy211]

All depends on the tattoo's. You have a lot of old timers who still view tattoo's as a moniker for outlaws and bad people. I am sleeved on one arm. People do still give me funny looks, but that life. First impressions are still very important in this day and age. The tattoos I have are still able to be covered. When I am in a suit and tie, no one see's them. However, the company I work for has ZERO issues with them. I am in a old school industry where the old dogs rule, but they accept the younger generation.( I am 35) LOL.

[67chevILL]

JMHO. in any work setting they are not professional. exceot if you are a pro-tattoo artist.

if you MUST get a tattoo make sure it can be covered with clothing.

[6'9"Witha69]

Make sure it can be covered. I have a half sleeve that goes up and covers my entire shoulder. As a Vice President at a bank, I have to take care not to let it show through white dress shirts, and polo shirts are a nono, even though it is covered normally, movement can uncover it. I sit in a lot of meetings with SVPs and EVPs, and the old dogs in those roles say they understand, but their expressions say differently. Hell, sometimes I get looks for the goatee.

[Tony_SS]

Some shops wont do them on the hands or neck. I'd say, if you have to question it, then there's your answer. Unless you are self sufficient, I wouldn't be getting them where a job might depend on it. You'll be judged negatively.

[Damn True]

Like Nick, I have tattoos. Like Nick, I work in a professional environment albeit in Silicon Valley an environment that is less "formal" than finance. Like Nick, my tattoos are invisible to anyone I might encounter in a professional capacity.

If I interview someone, male or female, with visible tattoos I see it as a strike against them. We do business with companies that are far less formal than ourselves, and we also do business with the biggest of the big Fortune 500 suit/tie type corporations and government organizations as well. A guy with a visible sleeve or neck tat or a lady with ivy wrapped around her ankle is two steps behind an equally qualified un-adorned applicant. Is it fair? No. But that is the reality of working in a professional environment.

Many younger people will read the above and think, "Well I wouldn't want to work somewhere that would look down on my personal expression of style." Hogwash. First of all, that severely limits your professional opportunity as companies such as that are few and far between. Second, no matter how "open-minded" a company is at some point they are going to attempt to do business with another company that isn't. Again...limiting. At the end of the day, regardless of your role in a professional capacity you are being hired to in some way represent the company you are working for. Given the above you want to present yourself in as professional a way as possible and that includes things that are perceived as counter-cultural or edgy in appearance.

I'll give you an example. A friend of mine has a son who fit's to a "T" the modern definition of "hipster". Skinny jeans, chuck taylors, those big stretch hoop piercings in his ears, scraggly 1/2-beard, ironic printed t's under a goofy cardigan, sleeve tat's and of course...a fixed gear bike. He is an EXTREMELY talented and highly regarded digital illustrator. He want's to advance into a "director" role at IL&M or Pixar (both local companies) but despite no less than 10 different opportunities for the promotion he cannot make the jump. His mentors keep telling him he needs to present a more professional appearance if he want's to move into management, as do I and his parents. He refuses to sacrifice "his right to express himself" and has been stuck in his individual contributor role for 6 years and is now working for two former peers 3-4 years his junior.

[6'9"Witha69]

Well put True.

[rfalker1]

Yep, the only job I know where tattoos don't matter or a plus is the Denver Nuggets lol, but in the proffesional world i think the ones are visible cause people to view u differently. But i don't have any tattoos, so i cant say for sure, but anyway nick i think there are plenty of places where u can put tattoos where people can't see them. Use those spots and be great at whatever u do.

[mellowyellowCJ7]

Also, don't forget this world is getting smaller and most every company is international or has international clients. Not all cultures are ok with marking your body, of course some encourage it, but unless you are Tongan keep'm covered.
Oh and another perspective that I have not seen here is the religious implications, my mother-in-law is a little to the wacko side of Christianity and she flipped out on my nephew last week for having a pretend tattoo. So there is the ultra conservative client that might write you off too. In her mind ink was marking the body, which taken to her extreme was a “mark of the beast.” Note that I consider myself less and less conservative every time I visit my in-laws. lol

[Mathius]

It's a sad world we live in where people are judged by their appearance more than anything else. I've heard several people in this thread contribute that you have to be prepared to do business with people who have more conservative attitudes, but IMHO, those are the people who are in the wrong.

Whatever though. I didn't start the thread with the intention of getting an answer I wanted to hear. I wanted to know what you guys really thought. It's just my own opinion, but as long as someone is clean and dressed appropriately and they haven't mutilated their face with excessive piercings, tattoos, or other body modifications, I don't see the issue, or where other people get off judging you.

Then again, this is an extremely judgmental world we live in.

And I guess a part of me can't help thinking you should go your own way anyways because the people who can look past a few tattoos and see the real personality, talent, and intelligence a person has are the real people _I_ want to be getting to know.

Mathius

[mellowyellowCJ7]

It's just my own opinion, but as long as someone is clean and dressed appropriately and they haven't mutilated their face with excessive piercings, tattoos, or other body modifications, I don't see the issue, or where other people get off judging you.

I think this is a little funny, because my mother-in-law and you have made the same distinction, but the lines were drawn in different places. "mutilated their face...." So you draw the line at the collar, and my mother-in-law would draw the line on paper, which means tattoos have mutilated their arms and that art should not be the body, but on paper, stone, canvas, etc. Same line, different place.
Don’t get me wrong, my mother-in-law loves all people in her own way and has recently taken in a guy with all sorts of tattoos and given him a job, fed him, and shown him much love. She hates tattoos, but not the person. I would go as far as saying she loves this person. Careful not to judge those people that don’t see tattoos as art, they just express themselves in other ways.
By saying, “if you don’t like tattoos, you are close minded” is rather close minded and judgemental IMHO. To be open minded, you need to allow others to have opinions, and dare I say a religious conviction, even if they don’t agree with you.

[Tony_SS]

It's a sad world we live in where people are judged by their appearance more than anything else. I've heard several people in this thread contribute that you have to be prepared to do business with people who have more conservative attitudes, but IMHO, those are the people who are in the wrong.

Whatever though. I didn't start the thread with the intention of getting an answer I wanted to hear. I wanted to know what you guys really thought. It's just my own opinion, but as long as someone is clean and dressed appropriately and they haven't mutilated their face with excessive piercings, tattoos, or other body modifications, I don't see the issue, or where other people get off judging you.

Then again, this is an extremely judgmental world we live in.

And I guess a part of me can't help thinking you should go your own way anyways because the people who can look past a few tattoos and see the real personality, talent, and intelligence a person has are the real people _I_ want to be getting to know.

Mathius

Would you get tattooed by someone without any visible tattoos?

[rfalker1]

no way lol

[Damn True]

Facts are facts. You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

This



makes a better first impression than this



FWIW, the above is from an article on Whole Foods who's dress code varies depending on the area in which the store resides. The above employee is allowed to wear a shirt exposing his tats in a store in the LA Basin but not at their stores in New England where he is from. Despite Whole Food's image they are a fairly conservatively run business and extremely savvy about the image their employees present regardless if that employee is a bagger or manager, because the employees and their professionalism are responsible for the lasting impressions left on their customers to a far greater extent than the freshness of the cucumbers.

If your planned direction is toward architecture I would caution you against visible tattoos and piercings. That is a VERY conservative environment despite the creative nature of those who do "the work". It's a sales job. You are selling your creativity or ability to translate the vision of your client to a consumer or corporation who's intent is to make one of the largest investments they will ever make. There is a lot of trust that needs to be built starting with the first handshake. You don't want to add overcoming a bad first impression to the challenges inherent in the process.

It's not a "lack of progression" it's simply a matter of fact that certain standards of dress and appearance are not appropriate in many professional environments in just the same way that shorts and a tank top are not appropriate dress for a dinner at the French Laundry.

[6'9"Witha69]

Would you get tattooed by someone without any visible tattoos?

Not just no, hell no.

[Mathius]

I think this is a little funny, because my mother-in-law and you have made the same distinction, but the lines were drawn in different places. "mutilated their face...." So you draw the line at the collar, and my mother-in-law would draw the line on paper, which means tattoos have mutilated their arms and that art should not be the body, but on paper, stone, canvas, etc. Same line, different place.
Don’t get me wrong, my mother-in-law loves all people in her own way and has recently taken in a guy with all sorts of tattoos and given him a job, fed him, and shown him much love. She hates tattoos, but not the person. I would go as far as saying she loves this person. Careful not to judge those people that don’t see tattoos as art, they just express themselves in other ways.
By saying, “if you don’t like tattoos, you are close minded” is rather close minded and judgemental IMHO. To be open minded, you need to allow others to have opinions, and dare I say a religious conviction, even if they don’t agree with you.

I'm not drawing a line at the face, I just feel as though people identify with each other buy their faces. Hair cuts can change, maybe facial hair, but that's how you identify someone. No matter how much weight you gain or how much muscle you gain, or if you lose a limb, etc. you're still identified to everyone by your facial appearance. I don't have a problem with people who get piercings, etc. but I do find this as one area where there is such a thing as excess. My sister has her nose pierced, as did my ex girlfriend. I have my ear pierced in 3 places. I have female friend's with eyebrow piercings and one who even has a metal stud surgically implanted in the back of her neck somehow that allows her to screw an earing into it. I interact with these people on a fairly regular basis, I get along with them, and I have no issues with them. But I can understand why others would be repulsed by it, because excess or simply a bad choice can certainly hurt your appearance. And lets be honest, tattoos aside, that's what our society cares about more than anything is outer beauty.

As for me being close minded for disagreeing with people who are close minded, that's really really silly, IMO. That's like saying I'm prejudice if I don't like people who are racist. Is it literally true? Sure, but it certainly doesn't reflect any kind of accepted morality.

Mathius

[Tony_SS]

When I first met my wife, she saw the hole in my ear and asked 'what happened to your earring'? I told her it fell out in the 9th grade. She still gets a kick out of that..

[shmoov69]

Whatever though. I didn't start the thread with the intention of getting an answer I wanted to hear. I wanted to know what you guys really thought. It's just my own opinion, but as long as someone is clean and dressed appropriately and they haven't mutilated their face with excessive piercings, tattoos, or other body modifications, I don't see the issue, or where other people get off judging you.

Then again, this is an extremely judgmental world we live in.

And I guess a part of me can't help thinking you should go your own way anyways because the people who can look past a few tattoos and see the real personality, talent, and intelligence a person has are the real people _I_ want to be getting to know.

Mathius

Interesting comment..... Hello pot, meet the kettle! LOL!

Long hair, piercings, tats, colored hair, gothic, emo...you name it! If it isn't "normal", you will have a hurdle to jump from the beginning compared to the "normal" of the world. Just life and the way it is.