Tattoos

[Mathius]

Ain't that the truth? The last time I was looking for a job I spent no less than 8hrs interviewing with each corporation I was seriously pursuing. My current position involved 2hrs with an HR rep, 2hrs with the CEO, 1hr with the VP of sales, 2hrs with the VP of sales ops, an hour each with 3 would be peers and 1hr with the CEO AGAIN.

Not sure where Mathius got the idea about 15min interviews. I've never had one that brief as an applicant for a position I was seriously pursuing.

I don't know, maybe because I get the impression you've never held a "normal" job where you weren't required to have a college education or where you never considered it a career. Maybe back when you were in h.s. Or maybe you think that was your time in the military? I think I remember you saying or at least implying that you served.



If you've never held a job that you've considered disposable that you were just doing because you needed the pay check, then I guess you couldn't really relate. I admit I haven't applied for a ton of jobs in my lifetime. I consider that a good thing, because it shows I'm a person who perseveres and has the ability to hold onto a job. But of the 3 or 4 jobs I have interviewed for, while there were usually multiple interviews, I don't remember any of them lasting longer than 20 minutes.

Got any evidence for such a claim?

Gee John, why'd you edit your original message where you said you thought I made that up? It's not the first time you've come within the same room as calling me a liar.

I'm not saying you have a chip on your shoulder, because as you said, I don't know you outside of this thread, but you using a lot of lauguage and buzz words that screem, the world doesn't like who I want to be and that's not fair, so I really hope this is a case of internet communication breakdown.

Yeah this is the point where the thread generally degenerates every time I try to have a prolonged communication here. Most people have this perceived idea of how people are supposed to talk. I'm not writing a story here, this isn't a formal application, I talk how I talk. If you were sitting in the same room with me, or we were having a web cam conversation where you could hear my tone, or see my body language I think you'd have a totally different opinion.

It's ironic both because it's the same kind of thing I'm talking about in regards to appearance, but also because what you guys perceive as "normal" typing tone, I often find threatening. For example, I have always found True and especially Parsons' to come off as very condescending, particularly the way they like to throw out the last word and then lock threads, but most others don't seem to have issues with them. Maybe they just like me. Actually when I first joined here, Parsons was a pretty nice and helpful guy.

I'm sorry I don't live up to anyone's communication standards anymore than I conform to your ideas of professionalism.

I really don't have anything more to say in this thread. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions, just defend my own statements, or clarify if necessary. I think judging people on appearance is wrong, and I don't agree with True's statement about researching a company either. Often times the attire expected during the interview process is nowhere near what you would wear on a job to begin with. And again, I understand that this is how it is, I just don't agree with it, and I started this thread, because I had thought that there was a chance that in a society where guys like Jesse James, Russell Mitchell, various rockstars, etc. are seen day in and day out on television with tattoos and piercings or worse that we might have moved beyond just seeing a mark on someone's skin. Judging someone's intent without knowing them is just wrong.

I don't think there's really much left for me to say.

Mathius

[parsonsj]

Another downside to tattoos:

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...8.story?hpt=T2

[Tony_SS]

Another downside to tattoos:

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...8.story?hpt=T2

I would say that's a downside to being an idiot.

[mellowyellowCJ7]

Another downside to tattoos:

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...8.story?hpt=T2

Please note that all of his tattoos can be covered with proper business attire. :p

[mellowyellowCJ7]

Yeah this is the point where the thread generally degenerates every time I try to have a prolonged communication here. Most people have this perceived idea of how people are supposed to talk. I'm not writing a story here, this isn't a formal application, I talk how I talk. If you were sitting in the same room with me, or we were having a web cam conversation where you could hear my tone, or see my body language I think you'd have a totally different opinion.

I get the feeling we could have this conversation over a beer and at the end we'd both be smiling and I'd probably pat you on the back of the shoulder and say something stupid like, good luck changing the world, but in the mean time keep your tattoos under the collar.

[wmhjr]

Yeah this is the point where the thread generally degenerates every time I try to have a prolonged communication here. Most people have this perceived idea of how people are supposed to talk. I'm not writing a story here, this isn't a formal application, I talk how I talk. If you were sitting in the same room with me, or we were having a web cam conversation where you could hear my tone, or see my body language I think you'd have a totally different opinion.

Mathius, I need to put my foot down here. You started this thread asking for feedback. You got it. You don't like it. So now, everyone else is either wrong, racist, or somehow flawed otherwise. Everyone else BTW, who may have gone through hundreds of interviews, who may RUN companies if not own them, many of whom have their OWN tattoos. I don't have a problem with your language or your communication. I simply believe you started the thread either hoping for vindication of your own opinion, or with an intent to stir the pot. That's fine.

But.

You're wrong. Nobody is assailing your ability to choose to have tattoos whever in gods name you want them. Do what you want. But please don't just spew BS about "what's wrong with this country" etc. I'm in the midst of hiring 5 more direct reports to me right now. The process BEGINS with phone screens of selected applicants. Then, since these are senior individual contributor technical roles in the $100k range, it goes to technical phone screens. Then about 6 hour long interviews with various people. Finally, a very small subset will interview with me. They will have a minimum of 10 hours of phone/interview time prior to getting an offer letter. I can't afford bad hires. The investment of both time and money is too large. Judgement and ability to consider somebody elses viewpoint and not introduce unnecessary conflict are essential. This has been the hiring practice everywhere I've been for at least the past 12 yrs. At MY level, it's WAY more involved than that. So please reserve your assumptions for how "hiring is done" for people who don't hire.

Anyway, I don't know you and have no idea of you're a great guy (which you probably are) or not. My job in selecting people is to use my JUDGEMENT to try and guess how an individual will meet our commercial needs based on every bit of information, perception and intuition I can bring to bear. Your tattoos are right in my face if they're exposed, and I can do nothing but guess. My guess will always favor those who try to fit the model of a "professional" at work.

Let me tell you something else - pure fact. A question I ask EVERY SINGLE CANDIDATE is to tell me what they know about my company. It tells me how much they prepared. If they have prepared, it is a logical extension to conclude there is a better chance of them being a thorough, diligent and meticulous employee than somebody who walks in cold.

Judging someones intent without knowing them is EXACTLY what the interview process is all about. Period. End of story.