Bogus traffic ticket

[parsonsj]

As far as making a complaint, the officers captain is just gonna piss on your back and tell you it is raining. Then your son will get wallpapered. Wallpapered means the cop will write your son so many tickets he can wallpaper his bedroom. Just be happy you beat the ticket and leave well enough alone. Dont let one bad experience taint your and your son's view of law enforcement.

I don't know how you can know about and expect "wallpapering" and then ask that the OP and his son not have a negative view of law enforcement.

I get that we need cops on the beat. I understand that the bad guys would ruin our society without police. But wouldn't our communities be a better place without cops wallpapering kids, and captains demanding professional behavior from their officers rather than covering for them?

[The WidowMaker]

You conveniently left out the part of my quote that shows that I understand... up to a point. That point is when a cop doesn't show proper contrition when his decision and actions are proven unwarranted:

im not sure why i needed to quote any more. you said

I am saying that there may be a culture among law enforcement to target and lean on people that meet particular profiles and/or appearances. And since I seemed to fit those profiles/appearances and probably shared values with many of them, I got hassled for it.

i was using your statement and saying that the culture IS there, and for good reason. cops can say they dont profile all day long. we know thats a lie. profiling, to a point, keeps them and us safe.

[FMG CAMARO]

Everyone is accusing this officer of lying about the original incident so why wouldnt he lie some more and retaliate if someone makes a complaint? Wallpapering is more of a joke, its doesnt really happen. My point was becareful what you ask for. As far as the captain is concerned this officer is working for him and writing tickets and so on. He wasnt accused of gross misconduct by the op. It will be his word against a 16 year olds. As I stated before he obviously wasnt suspected of perjury by the DA so what is his captain gonna do?

[Romulus]

I was the whitest, cleanest cut, most uptight kid there was out of highschool, but my first car was a '68 Camaro. Early 90's and I'm sitting at a light and a cop pulls up behind me and blips his lights. Him and his partner get out, and start going over my car. I'm sitting in the middle lane of a fairly busy intersection. The cop actually got out a measuring device and measured the tread on my tires as well as the height of my headlights. They didn't write me up for anything, but they sat me there for 10-15 minutes in the middle of traffic busting my chops about all the stuff they should write me up for and they are doing me a huge favor. That was one of a dozen stupid encounters in the 90's. The only ticket I ever got was doing 70 in a 65. Went to court and the cop didn't show up. The judge STILL had to make a point to say he would have found me guilty even though I had never had a ticket AND had gone and had my speedo re-calibrated with a $200 receipt at the same place that did the local highway patrols car. My dad and lawyer rolled their eyes and we walked out.

It will always be the Hatfields and the McCoys because there will always be 20% of cops on an authority ego trip and 20% of kids (OK maybe 40%-50%) of kids seeing how much they can get away with. I wasn't one of them.

I've never filed a complaint against a cop, but I've had several positive experiences with officers for various reasons and always sent a letter or email to the precinct or supervisor. Hopefully get the good guys some recognition and the cops that became cops because they got bullied in school a big ol zip - well I'm not that naive.. but it makes me feel better.

[shmoov69]

Man, I have been pulled over prolly 20-30 times since I've been driving and had only I cop that was not either plesant, professional or both. I've got many speeding tickets, an excessive accelleration, an exhibition of speed and a speed greater than reasonable and prudent. which were all in lieu of a drag racing ticket because it would have been worse, all because the cops were nice.

You guys must have some bad karma! Or just got attitudes to the cops! LoL!

[DartorDemon]

I just wanted you guys opinions on this matter. My 16 year old son got pulled over (lowered red truck) and got a ticket for a failure to stop ticket. He said he stopped. Honest Dad I really did. Yeah right you wouldn't get a ticket for that if you didn't son. Well we went and got the dash cam footage of the stop and it doesn't show him running the stop sign. The footage doesn't even show the stop sign or the stop.
The cop couldn't have seen him stop or not stop due to the angle of the street. We go to court set the ticket up for a hearing. We see the prosecutor at the date and show her the footage. She agrees with me that the cop could not have seen him stop or not. She throws the ticket out.
Now my wife wants to file a complaint against the cop that wrote the ticket as he had to have just been harassing her son.
What would you guys do leave well enough alone or go and talk to his captain or what?
I would upload the video but can't figure out how.

I'm with everyone else here. let it go.

Oddly enough, i'm in a similar situation. Got pulled over a few weeks ago in my lowered red truck. Supposedly doing 41mph in a 25, but its a fairly slow truck and i was only in 2nd gear. 41mph is topping 5000rpm in 2nd gear. Buzzing at 6500 only gets the truck to 55mph in 2nd gear. Ironically, just prior to being pulled over i was "cruising" because i didnt want to beat on the truck until i got an oil change.

Said cop was a complete ***** during the whole ordeal. I'm certainly not anti-cop as i have a degree in criminal justice, but asshats like this really make cops look bad.

[Off Duty]

This was going pretty well until the last several posts:(
Yes, "some" cops lie.
Yes, "some" Prosecuting attorney's lie.
Yes, "some" Defense attorney's lie.
Yes, "some" Defendants lie.
Hell....everybody lies sometime!
I've seen it in court from all sides:(
But to blanket a statement like that "cops lie" implies "all" cops lie by default.
That's crap.
I've been in that field for 30 years.
I despise a liar, I don't care what side they're on!

As for the OP, I'd probably have a talk with the officers shift commander, but for now, stop short of an "official" complaint.

I recently had the need to have a "chat" with the shift commander of a local PD regrding the actions of one of thier own.
I simply stated that I didn't want anything in writing, wasn't out for his head, and didn't want his job (BTDT- ).
I didn't want any adverse actions in his personnel jacket, I just wanted them to take care of the issue, and let him know, people are more aware these days.

I took the high road, yet got the guys attention.
The shift commander (who I happend to know) took care of it and I don't think it'll happen again.
If you really want to pursue it, that's the way I'd try first.

As for making your son a "marked man", unless this is a "Mayberry" type town, then I wouldn't worry about it. Most of that nonsese is just that....
Glad your son beat the charge. Like I said, I hate bad cops!

[Off Duty]

Everyone is accusing this officer of lying about the original incident so why wouldnt he lie some more and retaliate if someone makes a complaint? Wallpapering is more of a joke, its doesnt really happen. My point was becareful what you ask for. As far as the captain is concerned this officer is working for him and writing tickets and so on. He wasnt accused of gross misconduct by the op. It will be his word against a 16 year olds. As I stated before he obviously wasnt suspected of perjury by the DA so what is his captain gonna do?

That's not entirely correct.
Most of the Captains I've known would not jeopardize thier career and pensions, over the actions of one of thier subordinates. I'm sure there are some, but i wouldn't place a large wager on thier being that many.
This officer is one of I'm sure, several, that work for this Capt./Shift Commander, and could be replaced tomorrow by an overzealous rookie who get's off in writing traffic tickets
Certainly not irreplaceable.

Falsifying documents, and giving false statements, especially under oath, is a felony in most states, and certainly enough to get you fired in most departments.
Regardless of the fact that this is "just a ticket", if he purjured himself by giving false testimony , that's problem. What else would he be willing to falsify to cover his backside?

And it's not just the 16 year old vs. the officer. It's the 16 year old, the LEO's own Dash Cam footage, and a district/State attorney that agrees with him, vs. the officer.
Now you have some HP

Finally, just because he wasn't "charged" with perjury, doesn't mean the SAO or DA didn't note the fact.
It's not at all unusual for a state or disctrict attorney not to charge an officer with perjury, unless he/she has an independent complaining witness (ie: your son).

But I've seen personally where a states attorney made comment regarding an officers testimony...on one occasion indicating that this was a "routine" thing for one officer and no one believes him any more. He couldn't buy a conviction!

Believe me, they notice.

Sometimes in a case like that, they'll (DA/SAO) will fire off a letter to the officers department head (Chief/Sheriff, etc) making "note" of the inconsistencies and thier concern. From there, it usually goes to IA (Internal Affairs) and the rest is usually history ;).
They're usually terminated or quit, and the SAO/DA get's to keep thier hands clean.

[Tony_SS]

Here are a couple of resources that can help your encounter with a cop:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...608_b_talk.htm

http://flexyourrights.org/

[DarkBuddha]

i was using your statement and saying that the culture IS there, and for good reason. cops can say they dont profile all day long. we know thats a lie. profiling, to a point, keeps them and us safe.

Again, I understand the profiling, but you missed my point about how a cop handles themselves when profiling. If a cop profiles me (or anyone else) and it turns out to be a bad call on their part because I (or whoever) turn out to be a fine upstanding citizen (despite the fact that we may fit the "profile"), then the cop should have the integrity and moral fiber to apologize and act appropriately contrite. But if he pulls me on a profile but then finds out he was wrong and chooses to be a ****, hassles me, and tickets me on some superbly minor total BS thing, then he's a ****, straight up.

The thing is that cops don't have to be dicks while doing their job. They have to do their job, act professionally, make good judgement calls, not manipulate evidence or the law, and not pull some power-trip just because they can or because they feel like it. I'll tolerate and understand a cop being short, strict, and even sanctimonious. But I won't tolerate or understand a cop that chooses to be mean, provocative, disrespectful, or manipulative. That's being a ****.

[Tony_SS]

I dunno, if I had to be a cop, the stress, pressure and exposure to internal corruption might just push me toward taking out my frustration on those who didn't deserve it. Not saying its just, but talk about an underpaid, overstressed job. I sure wouldn't want to do it.

With that in mind, I have a few techniques that neutralize my encounters with them.

[WildBillyT]

Again, I understand the profiling, but you missed my point about how a cop handles themselves when profiling. If a cop profiles me (or anyone else) and it turns out to be a bad call on their part because I (or whoever) turn out to be a fine upstanding citizen (despite the fact that we may fit the "profile"), then the cop should have the integrity and moral fiber to apologize and act appropriately contrite. But if he pulls me on a profile but then finds out he was wrong and chooses to be a ****, hassles me, and tickets me on some superbly minor total BS thing, then he's a ****, straight up.

Yep! Exactly how I feel. Now it's my story time

It was the end of fall semester my senior year of college and to blow off some steam I went out for beers with a buddy of mine in his orange '69 GTO. We went to the Chili's on city line ave in Philadelphia and started talking car stuff. He had some pinging at high RPM in the goat so we went out to change the timing. After we set it we did a few WOT runs behind the ACME to see if it solved the problem. It did so we headed back to Chili's. As soon as we got out of the car a police car comes in through each exit with the lights on (two marked, one unmarked) and they jump out of the car ready to draw on us (they might have even done so, one had a shotgun pointed in our direction, I was too stunned to notice). We had our hands in the air so they came up and searched us and the car- which included lifting seats and checking every compartment. The tools in the trunk didn't help our situation, but once we showed our college IDs and explained ourselves for a little while they softened up and started BS'ing with us to break the tension as they knew they could relax and nothing was up. John and I stayed remarkably calm through the whole thing since we weren't guilty of anything, but it still made me kind of uneasy.

Apprarently one of the neighbors or passers-by saw us working with tools and mistook the timing light for a real gun (no ****... really...) so they called the cops on us. When we did the high RPM runs the cops thought we were going to make a break for it. Fun times. But I was OK with it ever since then as they were doing their jobs.

The ticket I got for 30 in a 25? That, however, was an officer who was really reaching. There are jerks in every profession. Law enforcement is no different than any other.

[kochevy67]

Find the word "everybody" or "all" in my comment, and you'll have a point. I'm simply reporting a fact.

jp

An educated person does not need to look far it is in your last sentence when you made the word "Cops" plural. I don't want to argue with you because I will never win you proved that from the last post regarding the vendor not delivering the parts. As for this particular situation I cannot comment because I was not there nor were the rest of us, however I will never say that all Police Officers are 100% honest, that would be ridicolous.

John as far as the corruption you cited in the three major cities you may be right about L.A. and N.Y. but Chicago I am not so sure about, you see I work here and we had a scandal where various Officers were arrested and low and behold all but 3 or 4 of them were reinstated and the charges were dropped. I would be curious to see where you are getting your facts from regarding this matter.

If you read the original post I cannot be sure that the Police Officer saw it or not. By the OP's own account he stated the dash cam could not see the stop sign. Then I have to ask how the Police car was angled or not could the Officer have a different vantage point or not. Now please before you start bashing me understand that if the Officer pulled some b.s. then your kid deserves to walk on the ticket and the Officer needs to be talked to regarding this matter. I just have a hard time believing in this day and age that any Officer would jeopradize his career over a traffic ticket.

[Derek69SS]

It seems we're as afraid of the cops as we are of the criminals...

[parsonsj]

I just have a hard time believing in this day and age that any Officer would jeopradize his career over a traffic ticket.

I agree that ought to be how police officers behave, but the whole traffic system is set up such that guilt is presumed. It's very difficult to shake the testimony of any cop willing to lie on the stand. Without that dash cam, I'd have an aggressive driving ticket on my record, and my insurance costs would be through the roof. I'm quite grateful for that dash camera.

[67blacklist]

It seems we're as afraid of the cops as we are of the criminals...

not all cops are bad, I've met my share and most of them were just ordinary people doing there job...

as for the bad cops, I'd rather the criminals, people don't get as worked up if you leave them in a pool of blood.

[1969CamaroRS]

It seems we're as afraid of the cops as we are of the criminals...

Reminds me of a quote:

Democrats switch political parties and become Republicans when they become afraid of criminals.
And Republicans become Democrats when they become afraid of the government.

I too have seen my share of good and bad officers. And I come from a family of Police (Father, Brother and Uncle all are/were Police Officers). Like with any group there are those that are honest and there are the bad apples.

[garickman]

I just wanted you guys opinions on this matter. My 16 year old son got pulled over (lowered red truck) and got a ticket for a failure to stop ticket. He said he stopped. Honest Dad I really did. Yeah right you wouldn't get a ticket for that if you didn't son. Well we went and got the dash cam footage of the stop and it doesn't show him running the stop sign. The footage doesn't even show the stop sign or the stop.
The cop couldn't have seen him stop or not stop due to the angle of the street. We go to court set the ticket up for a hearing. We see the prosecutor at the date and show her the footage. She agrees with me that the cop could not have seen him stop or not. She throws the ticket out.
Now my wife wants to file a complaint against the cop that wrote the ticket as he had to have just been harassing her son.
What would you guys do leave well enough alone or go and talk to his captain or what?
I would upload the video but can't figure out how.

One thing I find interesting on this thread is that in all the "PROOF" that is posted about each persons story about how the cops lied is that there actually is no proof. In reality all that is really posted is one side of a two sided story. With out the officer to explain his side of the incident, that is all it will ever be is a one sided story. Even from the original poster we are only getting one side of story. From where I sit it is impossible to tell if his son ran the stop sign or not. There is simply not enough details in this post. We don't know who's dash cam the footage came from, perhaps the officer was ahead of the stop sign looking in his rear view mirror, if it was in fact a dash cam from the officers car, perhaps his head was turned in a different direction than his dash cam was facing. I am not saying the original poster or his son are lying, I am just saying all the facts are not there. The first thing that strikes me odd in this story is the fact that he said they showed the prosecutor the footage. In most states a traffic ticket is an infraction including the state of Texas. An infraction is not a crime there for there would be no prosecutor involved. It may be different in Texas but things brings out my point, none of us have all the deatails in this case to determine who was right or wrong. That being said, my suggestion is on par with most everyone else. Let it go.

[BonzoHansen]

How did you get off with the 94 in a 55? i have a feeling you started with a lot of "sirs".

Oh sure. And clean license, clean car with good inspection, etc. It went kind of like this
PO: You know why I pulled you over’
Me: I assume speeding because I was doing like 75. But in my defense the whole road is doing 75+ (interstate 287 in NJ)
PO: True, but I clocked you back there at 94!
Me: Sorry officer I didn’t look at my speed until your lights came on but I know after merging I caught myself and slowed down to the flow of traffic.

So maybe me being polite & my words matching what he saw. I dunno. I still have that written warning somewhere. He was a nice guy too.

I forgot the $30 no points ticket I got in NC for tailgating a cop on I-95. Unmarked 5.0GT, he pulled right in front of me to go around a truck and I did not feel like turning off the cruise control, so assuming the guy would duck back in the right lane after the truck I just kept getting closer & closer. Hey, I was tired and wanted to go home lol. Nicest cop I ever met. We bs’d for like 20 minutes.

[DarkBuddha]

Look, I've recounted my bad interactions with cops, but failed to mention that I have had perfectly good interactions as well. I just chose to relay the ones that seemed in-line with the experience of the OP's son and that officer's apparent behavior and actions. I have had cops that have stopped me for legit reasons, acted professionally, and treated me with respect, and a couple were even lenient. Those cops aren't dicks... they're professionals. And I hold them in great esteem.