four banger for the future?!

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Well, with the gas prices going up as they always do by world events and speculators, it got me to start thinking..its probably not the most economically or environmentally friendly thing to be driving a car with a 6.7L engine and huge overlap cam..I only drive under 5 miles a day now so its not a huge deal, but later in life when i move, graduate, have to commute to my job...etc i cant rely on the fact that gas will be under $4 a gallon.

Ive never driven a new car, other than my mommas car. I dont want to sacrifice the mechanical, sturdy feel, or the lines of a classic car for a plasticey, fuel efficient box. I also want whatever ill be driving to be able to get out of its own way. Ive heard LS camaros/novas can get pretty good mileage (25ish mpg), but i want great mileage, especially in the city. The only way to do this is to downsize the displacement.

So, i was reading the build thread of 'Green Bean' and it got me to thinking/researching: old novas/darts/mustangs can still be bought for under $2000, Ecotec engines are around $600. According to GM performance the crank and block can handle 500hp (add studs, other 'simple, cheap' stuff, etc..). A nice (stripped down, lightweight) classic car with a 300hp ecotec could be built for under roughly $7000 and get ~25mpg in the city without a huge issue.

Now, I know srt4's are known for handling some power as well, honda guys always praise those little four bangers (that i know even less about)...Obviously to make a lot of power, you have to start forcing a lot of air thru the engine with a lot of gas...

BUT ANYWAYS, what do you think is the best four cylinder overall: fuel efficiency, power potential...etc. I dont care if its a honda, mitsubishi, chevy, ford, dodge...im just daydreaming about the inevitable future of hot rodding...whatre your thoughts?

[Six_Shooter]

I have plans to build a Ford 2.3 with a DOHC head, then adding a turbo, for my GF's Mustang, not saying it'll be the "best", but will be interesting.

I like V6s myself, I've been playing with the GM 60 degree V6 since the mid '90s.

[WS6]

Consider a chevy Cobalt ss with the turbo motor. Those thing will scoot with only a little work done to them. The supercharged ones aren't bad either but the turbo version is better.

[ALLstrokedOUT]

I would be interested in v6's to mess around with..but im thinking of a daily driver that can get 25mpg or better in the city; im not sure a v6 can meet that. I havnt heard much of the ford 2.3's, im gunna have to research them a bit as well... Itd also be cool to turn up the boost and load another tune to mess around with if fuel economy wasnt a concern for that drive home if the particular engine could take the abuse...

[Six_Shooter]

To have both economy AND power, forced induction really is the way to go.

Turbo works very well on small displacement engines, since it uses the exhaust to run the turbo, where as a super will use crank power to run the super.

I have used turbos on a few builds and get great milage with plenty of power.

IIRC the last time I calculated MPG of my 2.8L Nissan straight 6 (30+ year old tech), with the EFI I'm running it was around 20 MPG (driving it with some pizzaz), with more to be gained with some more tuning. I don't have a power figure, but know that it's plenty north of 200 HP, and should be able to get a better figure later this year. A newer V6 with a more efficient design, can easily yield higher milage results. I'm toying with getting a newer V6 that has variable cam timing to see what I can pull from that.

[lnirenberg]

Diesels, outsized torque and tunable for more. 50 state legal--VW turbo 4 banger, MB 6 cyl turbo ( more torque than a 550), BMW 6 cyl turbo, dearly departed VW V10 turbo diesel and the new truck diesels from Ford & GM with 700+ ft/lbs. On a pedestal for me, the fully designed duramax 4500 is (was) the same size as a gas powered small block and would have been (will be?) a perfect fit in an old muscle car with about 550 ft/lbs from the factory. It has been buried since GM went bankrupt. European Ford Ranger diesel that we will not see. diesel, diesel, diesel Did I mention diesels?

[DarkBuddha]

New direct injection turbo Ecoboost from Ford is looking promising. 2012 Focus ST is 247hp and should get 30mpg+. They were able to coax the 300hp 2010 Focus RS to 38mpg: http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Ford-...-38.5-mpg.html

[demon1515]

this are a couple of the 4 banggers old school Toyota engines i build for drag in the rollers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni_KoLu9U_g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgPzh6cabpc

And a video of another one on the first strat!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0SSR4sz_Ls

By the way guys excuse the spanish, all this was in Puerto Rico home of the fastest imports!

Also i am the one behind the camera all the time!

[ALLstrokedOUT]

That's a pretty wicked sounding 4 cylinder demon1515! Is there anything still stock internally on that Toyota? And the ford focus rs is very impressive too; 38mpg and 305hp from the factory?? ..nothing wrong with that!! I wonder what the near future will bring for tunability and modification of the factory direct injection, if it'll every be something that an aftermarket computer could handle...

[93Polo]

To have both economy AND power, forced induction really is the way to go.

Turbo works very well on small displacement engines, since it uses the exhaust to run the turbo, where as a super will use crank power to run the super.

I have used turbos on a few builds and get great milage with plenty of power.

IIRC the last time I calculated MPG of my 2.8L Nissan straight 6 (30+ year old tech), with the EFI I'm running it was around 20 MPG (driving it with some pizzaz), with more to be gained with some more tuning. I don't have a power figure, but know that it's plenty north of 200 HP, and should be able to get a better figure later this year. A newer V6 with a more efficient design, can easily yield higher milage results. I'm toying with getting a newer V6 that has variable cam timing to see what I can pull from that.

I agree, I have been interested in is a forced induction (maggie or turbo) 4.8 in a daily. A LS6 cam and MP112 should be good for ~400rwhp with a manual trans. My heads and cam LS1 did 31mpg on the hwy with 3.42 gears in a C5 with a ~80mph average speed.

Some of the new motors also have potential.

[JEFFTATE]

I'd like a VW/Audi 2.0 TDI Diesel in my S10 . ( Or the TDI in a different compact sport utility ) as a daily driver .

[Rick K]

find a new mustang v6. 305 hp from the factory and go from there. Gas mileage in a light car should be over 30 mpg.

[6'9"Witha69]

The GM LNF. It's a 2.0 DI Turbo making 260 HP, 260 ftlbs factory. A dealer installed tune (about $600 out the door) makes it a 296 hp monster. More addons = more power. These are available in 2008+ HHR SS, 2009 Cobalt SS, 2007 Pontiac Soltice GXPs and Saturn Sky Redlines.

[demon1515]

That's a pretty wicked sounding 4 cylinder demon1515! Is there anything still stock internally on that Toyota?

Believe it or not, the first one small tire Toyota got the factory crankshaft, mains, head, and rockers, Arias pistons, eagle rods, stainless valves, Isky valve springs, ARP hardware all around,

Jerico trany, Chevy 10m bolt rear end factory suspension on 26x8.5 tire.

We have achieve 5.57 on the 1/8 of mile with a trap speed of 127mph.

On the one with the red valve cover we have been 8.22 1/4 mile @167MPH on 29x11.5 3/4 chassis car!

[sittingonacouch]

I like the Honda 4 cylinders. Go for the B series or the K series. They are reliable, can handle some power if you sleeve the block, HUGE aftermarket support, and great mileage.

[capri v8 driver]

what i miss in this discusion is fuel alternatives. ever tought about liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) or compressed natural gas (CNG) as a alternative to regular fuel?

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Demon1515, Thats pretty impressive; i wouldnt have thought there were that many stock components left on that engine when its making that much power.

The only problem with newer engines though is that they have VVT, not just an 'on/off' vtec, but constantly variable. I read somewhere that the new toyota 4 cylinder intake/exhaust cams can be phased a maximum of 60 degrees from each others initial position. I just started looking into how one would control this outside of a stock car/harness. I am fairly certain the megasquirt III can, but im not 100%
I also never really looked into those fuel alternatives. ive heard of them, but i didnt think they were much more efficient or cheaper than just regular old gasoline..itd be interesting too though

[Six_Shooter]

As far as I know the MS3 by itself can't control the VVT, at least I haven't seen mention of it.

There is a VVT controller available though, DIYautotune.com has them. http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/v...46217da4a7ba5e

[demon1515]

VVT would be awesome if you are going to leave the engine as it came from the factory,
But IMO when you are trying to squeeze as much HP out of such an small power plant the changes a VVT does is not that significant and some decide to just disable the system,

I've been there and done that!

[ALLstrokedOUT]

Yea, i went onto DIYautotune, maybe thats what i saw...And i probably would just disable the vvt, i just wasnt sure it was possible in the newer engines (i havnt looked at how the vvt mechanism works, so its just voodoo to me now, but ill look into it later).