8.5 Moser Ford ends. Is this mod worth it?

[rohrt]

I would like to build a bullet proof safe reliable rear end.

I have the 8.5 Nova rear end housing.
I have a 30 spline Eaton rear

The last few questions I have are concerning the C-clips and welding the axles and if I should narrow the rear a bit.

The narrowing question I will need to figure out on my own but I'm guessing I will keep it the stock width.

I still need to find some one local that can weld the tubes. This may not be easy.

The last Concern is with the C-clips. Being a Pontiac guy with the 8.2 before we had pressed on axle bearings. I always liked this design over the c-clips myself.

Moser sells these:
http://www.moserengineering.com/deep...m-bearing.html

Are the ford bearings basicly like the pontiac press on bearings? Do they have a backing plate that bolts to the axles?

I can weld but I don't think I trust my self that I could cut the ends square and get this end on as percise as it should.

Anyone here done this?

If I'm building a 450 to 500hp motor is this just way overkill?

[big gear head]

I've installed many sets of the Moser housing ends. These ends require axles that are made for the 9 inch Ford bearings. You can not use these with c clip axles. The ends must be welded on using a housing fixture to line everything up with the bearing bore in the case. You can not do this without the housing fixture. This is much better than c clip eliminators. If you are going to use this for auto cross or road racing then you need to get the tapered roller bearings instead of the sealed ball bearings. If you will be using disc brakes then you need the flush mount housing ends instead of the deep bore ends. If you will be using drum brakes then the backing plates need to be modified. The hole in the center needs to be bored to 3.155 inches.

Welding the axle tubes is not a simple job. The center casting is cast iron and the tubes are mild steel. You MUST use nickel to weld these two metals together. You CAN NOT use a MIG with steel wire. Special care must be taken when welding cast iron, so it needs to be done by someone with experience with this type of welding. I TIG weld them with nickel wire, but they can be stick welded with nickel rods. http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showth...ing+axle+tubes

This is a Nova housing that I welded.

[rohrt]

Thank you for the great info.

Do you have a picture of the fixture you use? Just curious what it look like.

[big gear head]

I used a fixture that was built by a friend who is a tool and die maker. I had it borrowed for many years. I returned it and I now have a Mittler Brothers fixture. http://mittlerbros.com/rear-end-narrowing.php

[rohrt]

That is cool? I had no idea they made such a thing.

I read back through hundreds of posts to get an idea behind what bearing ends would be best for me and it looks like the flush mount housing ends would be what I would want since I would like to use rear disc breaks.

Now the one question I didn't see answered is, I know the 8.5 would have to be cut at the flang if not further in. How much would this end up narrowing the rear?

[big gear head]

You can make the rear end any width that you want. If you want it to remain the stock width then you can, or you can make it narrower. You could even make it about 2 inches wider with these ends if you wanted to.

Here is a Chevelle rear end that I did with the Moser housing ends. You can see how much of the tube was cut off to keep the stock width of the housing.

[rohrt]

Sweet!

I'm trying to see what you did there. It looks like you exstended the tube? I have never seen a bearing end up close, does the back of the bearing end protrude out and into the inside of the axle tube several inches where you can adjust it in our out?

[Rhino]

Sweet!

I'm trying to see what you did there. It looks like you exstended the tube? I have never seen a bearing end up close, does the back of the bearing end protrude out and into the inside of the axle tube several inches where you can adjust it in our out?

The end is billet steel. Everything outside of the weld is part of the new end. You have a little bit of wiggle room when fine tuning your width, however you need to make sure you're pretty accurate with your tube cuts. All you'll need to do is cut your axle tubes to length (desired housing width - (2*bearing end width), and weld the new end while it's in the jig. If in doubt, trim as little as you think you'll need, test fit, then continue to fine tune the fit as needed. It's a lot easier to take more metal off than add it back on
I don't think it can be stressed enough that it needs to be done in a jig. Even if everything is prepped properly, uneven heat during welding can distort the tube.

[big gear head]

The new housing end is about 2 1/2 inches from the outer side of the flange to the end. Measure the new end and cut exactly that much off of the axle tube, measuring from the outer side of the original flange. This way the housing width will not change. If you keep the original housing width then you can order stock length axles. If you narrow it then be sure to keep up with how much you narrow it and relay this information when you order the axles. Be sure that you take the same amount off of both ends. You will notice that the pinion is 1 inch closer to the right end than the left. Don't change this. That is how it is suppose to be.

[rohrt]

I called some local places today.
I talked to my engine builder about the rear-end stuff and they said Champion Chassie would be the place to call. I got a hold of him today and he don't have a fixture for GM just ford 9" He thought since I would be using ford ends it might work but commented that the center section should be in place to center everything and his ford fixture wouldn't work. He only has a ford style fixture for this. He also doesn't mess with welding the tubes.:(

I called Saddler power train and they will weld the axles tubes and it sounds like they do it right, with the preheating and the nickel weld. They don't do the bearing ends though:(. No one stop shoping for me. I talked to them a little about u-joints and building drive shafts and they do that too. He ballparked around $350 for a 1350 joint drive shaft. They guy on the phone does ford 9inch stuff on the side. No love for the GM I guess. I discussed the press on ford bearings and being a little concerned about the collor pulling off with high G cornering. It sounded like that was very rare and typicly happen when they are not installed correctly. They heat them up and press them on. I have never had one come off on either of my pontiacs that both use the same design with the press on bearing and collor. I don't ever see myself pushing 1g cornering or having super sticky tires so I don't think I'm to concerned over this.

I wonder if Moser could build an axle that uses both the press on bearing and the c-clips? A little paranoid precausion.

So far I have ruff quotes for $150 to do the bearing ends and $150 to do the axle tubes.

[AMC Racer]

Mark Williams has threaded bearing retainers for their circle track flanged axles and a bolt-on end kit for GM housings. Maybe give them a call?
http://www.markwilliams.com/detail.aspx?ID=1744
http://www.markwilliams.com/detail.aspx?ID=1462
http://www.markwilliams.com/detail.aspx?ID=835

[big gear head]

If the guy with the Ford fixture is using the small bearing case then he can remove the discs from his Ford case and use them in the 8.5. They are the same size. If he is using the big bearing case then they won't work.

You can't use c clips with the press on bearings. The axle will not go in far enough to get the c clip on.

[Skip Fix]

So Big Gear head any thoughts on the Strange Street C clip eliminator that uses taper bearings vs weld on ends for taper bearings? I think they just machined a sleeve to use the larger taper bearings on a regular diameter axle.

[big gear head]

I haven't used any of those c clip eliminators, so I can't say.

[chicane67]

C-Clip eliminators are nothing more than a cheap band-aid. Doesnt matter who makes them. However, if someone is set on using them, I would try to find an older Summers Brothers c-clip eliminator set... if you can find one. They at least had the best design and materials I have used in a c-clip eliminator set.

The money spent would be better spent on a weld-on housing ends and a press on type bearing and axle set up.

[Skip Fix]

http://www.strangeengineering.net/ne...angeA1033.html

They use the same taper bearing the weld on ends use-not a ball bearing bearing. Have two axles seals-I pretty sure my weld on taper bearing end only as one. Only difference is it locates on the end of the axle tube and all 4 bolts one the end on top of the backing plate. Some of the weld ons don't use the larger tape bearing.

So maybe a welded end might be a little stronger if you take a hit to the axle-axle flange probably get bent anyways. Just trying to see why or how much better a weld on could be if the bearing and seals are the same other than you can get a larger diameter axle near the flange instead of the bushing for stock diameter axles, but then do all weld on ends use a bigger diameter axle?

Down side for weld ons the housing needs to come out and get welded in a jig to do it right and not get toe or camber problems. Up side maybe stronger. Down side for these new C clip bolt ons maybe not as strong, maybe leak but has 2 seals but you can install with the housing in the car.