1970 Camaro BIG Problems +++ please help +++

[JJEH]

Guys,

my brother has BIG Problems and needs your help. He purchased a 1970 Camaro, VIN123870L508028. The car was offered with a ZZ3 Engine.

Now the car is not in this shape as the seller said and probably has not the 350ci but the 305ci.

Here's the complaint from the guy who did business with my brother.

http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...s-c412291.html

Can you decode the numbers in the link?

My brother is trying to cancel the contract...

Thanks for your help!!!

[cobraguy65]

1967 to 1971:
1st Digit: Manufacturer:


1 = Chevrolet
2nd Digit: Series:


2 = Camaro
3rd Digit: Engine:


3 = 6 cylinder

4 = V8
5 = 6 cylinder
6 = V8
4th and 5th Digits: Body Type:


37 = Sport Coupe
67 = Convertible
87 = Sport Coupe
6th Digit: Model Year:


7 = 1967
8 = 1968
9 = 1969
0 = 1970
1 = 1971
7th Digit: Assembly Plant:


L = Van Nuys, California
N = Norwood, Ohio
8th through 12th Digits: Sequential Production Number:


starting-100001



Looks like an original six cylinder car

[The Stickman]

WOW that is alot wrong. WIsh I could help. Good luck with getting it resolved.

[SLO_Z28]

I'm familiar with that place, it sells mostly on consignment, its not the owners of the business selling usually. This is handled like a private sale I think? You can sue the seller in court and possibly get your money back.

some reading:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures...cts/ffvr35.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures...cts/ffvr26.htm

In that link there is a phone number for a DMV Investigator. They are badged peace officers and have a lot of power. You should have had the car inspected by someone that knows what theyre looking at, and I would have been happy to do so but the past is the past and hindsight is 20/20. Let me know how this works out, weather it was a private seller or a dealer. If its a dealer I know a few obscure laws that they probably broke, that can make this a slam dunk case.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Sorry you got snookered. ^ James offers good advice above. I'm not sure, but if it's a dealer you might have an option w the California Lemon Law? Also, recognize you only paid $2k for it. Not chump change, but a resotred running second gen is worth between 5 and 10x that amount. Perhaps use the $$$ you saved and restore her properly. Good luck!

[SLO_Z28]

no he put a 2k deposit and wired the rest. Like the scam emails on for real. Probably paid close to 15k for that car?

Turn out he paid 27k...ouch.

[JJEH]

Thanks for the help fellas... I'm glad to be a part of this board

My brother went to the place where the car got inspected here in Germany.

As soon as he gave me an overview I will post it.

James, thanks for the informations. I'll let him know...

[JJEH]

Okay, I just got a call.

All the rusty ***** is gone, the workshop fixed all.
Suposedly to the "agents" (Germann Company) expense...

Now the only matter is the engine.

My brother said he wants the ZZ3 engine but it's just a 305ci in.

The seller told the "agent" it's a 350ci in with the ZZ3 Kit.
The Kit brings more ci and more HP the seller said.

My question is, how can I absolutly identify the ZZ3 engine?
And what is the Kit for?
How can I tell the different between kit and engine?

Thanks Guys for your help!!!

[Ron.in.SoCal]

no he put a 2k deposit and wired the rest. Like the scam emails on for real. Probably paid close to 15k for that car?

Turn out he paid 27k...ouch.

Thanks James, my bad...

[SLO_Z28]

My question is, how can I absolutly identify the ZZ3 engine?
And what is the Kit for?
How can I tell the different between kit and engine?

The ZZ3 is a hell of a engine, and im surprised that more people here haven't heard of it. I put one in my dads old 3rd gen camaro. It was a smog legal swap and even came with a new exhaust system.

It will have aluminum heads and intake, forged crank and hyper pistons, roller cam. 345hp. The heads are VERY close to L98 heads, they are 58cc and angled plugs, LT4 valve springs, part number 12556463. The cam was 480/510 IIRC and had almost no overlap so it sounded smooth.

The ZZ4 is the common "hot ticket" crate engine now a days, and im willing to bet that's what the seller means.

[David Pozzi]

If the block was originally a 305, it can not be made into a 350. The cylinders at 3.75" can not be bored out enough, a 350 will have a 4" bore and stroke of 3.48" A rebuilt 350 would have an overbore of .030", .040" or .060", so the bore would then be 4.030", 3.040" or 4.060".
The 305 has limited potential for producing power, the small bore size will not allow cylinder heads with large valves to be used, the valves would hit the edge of the bore.
David

For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrol...l-block_engine

[JJEH]

Here is the original classified from the seller.
I got it from google cache.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

And here are the different statements:

The German workshop (who fixes the car): It's a 305.

The seller: It's a 350.

The German "Agent" (who bought it): It has the ZZ3 Kit, so it has 350ci.

My Brother: "I want the ZZ3 or a comparable engine (350ci, 345hp)."

The rust part is solved, the workshop did all the work. And my brother wants that car, but not with a weak 305, because the reason for this purchase was the whole packet... incl. the ZZ3.

[SLO_Z28]

Just a FYI as I may not have been clear, the ZZ3 is a california legal replacement engine for a 3rd gen camaro. Its by no means weak but you wouldn't buy it for this car. It might end up in a car like this as a take out from a 3rd gen but thats about it. If you want a comperable GM grate engine get a ZZ4. I remember that 11 years ago the ZZ3 cost quite a bit more than the total value of a 3rd gen camaro.

[JJEH]

James, thank you for the information.

What would you do in this case?
What is a rational alternative to the ZZ3 which make sense? Just a 350 with around 345HP?
Well, we will see what the "Agent" offers...

Just to make it clear:

The "Agent" is a German Guy, but his Company is in the States. He just have the Connections here to offer a "full service" to his customers.

The $27k are incl. s+h, taxes, customs and the historical registration here.

[SLO_Z28]

James, thank you for the information.

What would you do in this case?
What is a rational alternative to the ZZ3 which make sense?

ZZ4 hands down : http://paceperformance.com/i-5146074...ck-engine.html