Gm ZZ 502 Crate Motor In 1970 FORMULA...Easy or ?

[ALLACTIONMAN]

Any idea on what would be needed to swap out the ponticat 406 w/lakewood bellhousing, centerforce dual friction clutch, Tremec tko II 5-speed & mark williams driveshaft to this beast ?!?

1970 Pontiac Firebird Formula is the recipient.

Heighth ov motor in engine bay w/ BB camaro motor mounts & do those bolt right in ?
Will the factory "ram air" air cleaner work ?
Will the drive shaft need shortened ?
A diff. bellhousing or an adapter ?
Clutch or just disc ?
Transmission location on cross member... shifter location in car ?

Is this motor "streetable", loose term I know.



I mean L.A. traffic in 100 degree summer weather, 8 or 9 hour days rippin' thru the canyons & mountains, silver state classic/MKM road racing events, daily driver/work car ?

Anything else I'm not considering ?
Any info appreciated.
Thx

[chicane67]

1970 Pontiac Firebird Formula is the recipient.

Heigth of motor in engine bay w/ BB camaro motor mounts & do those bolt right in ? Yes they work
Will the factory "ram air" air cleaner work ? No, the factory hood and ram air, air cleaner will not fit
Will the drive shaft need shortened ? Maybe, maybe not. Good idea to have shaft rebuilt anyway
A diff. bellhousing or an adapter ? GM should be the same, as long as it wasnt a BOP block
Clutch or just disc ? Depends on flywheel, but most likely a change all together. The 502 makes some numbers the 406 wont
Transmission location on cross member... shifter location in car ? Dont have an exact answer for this one....

Is this motor "streetable", loose term I know. Yes, even with a larger cam

I mean L.A. traffic in 100 degree summer weather, 8 or 9 hour days rippin' thru the canyons & mountains, silver state classic/MKM road racing events, daily driver/work car ? Yes, with the right radiator/pump and fan combo

Anything else I'm not considering ? Headers. Big PITA. Did a set of Hooker 2.25" primarys with mild clearancing required
Any info appreciated.
Thx

...I did a 502 in a 70 Camaro with a set of Hooker 2.25" primary tubes, power steering and ran an automatic. The factory bumpstick looked like a pencil so we opted for a CompCams solid XE series and it woke it right up.... not to mention it was completely driveable and ran on cheap pump. We ran an Edelbrock Perf RPM manifold with a Holley HP950. The hood however was an LS7 type and it fit even with a carb spacer for heat isolation. The cooling system, consisted of a Griffen "bolt in" Camaro radiator - 2 x 1.25"- core, with an Edelbrock H20 pump and a Lincon MarkVIII fan. It never got over 190* is San Diego traffic, which is just like, if not worse in some areas of LA.

Should be a fun swap....

[ALLACTIONMAN]

Nice...so an aftermarket hood is required then ?
No factory flat hood will work if I understand you correctly ?
Thx for the quick reply.

[chicane67]

I think the smallest "Cowl hood" would be in the 'hood of a 4" maybe more (I'll have to call him and have him measure it exactly, if and when you get to that point). So no, a factory flatty wont close...... but I have see an LS7 hood available from a few vendors. I myself dont really like that hood, but it was in my hands as I pulled it off of the chassis before we started the swap.

He lives in San Diego, if you wanna go take a peek at it....

[ALLACTIONMAN]

Any ov those high output big block crate motors...454, etc. fit without switching hoods ?

I was hoping for minimal change over costs/hassles.

That 502 was complete & dynoed, equating less headache & hassle, damn.

I really love the "Formula" hood & it's rapid i.d. that I'm in a Pontiac Firebird...the 70-73's are getting rare & desirable.
F.Y.I. the book on those cars has went up 25% over the last 2 years !

Any other ideas ?

All replys greatly appreciated.
Thx

[chicane67]

Well, yody is your man to talk to about fitting big blocks under the same hood as you.....

[yody]

thank you, thank you very much...
here is the deal, all you need to put a BBC in a second gen pontiac is the correct frame mounts. all BBC's have the same deck height unless you have a weird truck tall deck or a ZZ572, the motor you have will be exactly the same as any 454/396 etc in terms of dimensions. You need to go to nastyz28.com and see what BBC intake people are using to clear stock flat hoods. I believe you will need a regular rpm intake to clear a flat hood. Here is the problem... The small block frame mounts make a BBC stand up pretty high in the engine bay. GM put lower profile frame mounts in the early second gens that came with Big blocks. which made the motor sit a little lower to make it clear the hoods. These frame stands are NOT in production and will be reeeeally hard to find, but not impossilbe, that is what you are going to need to fit a bbc under the flat hood, and i have no idea if the ram air cleaner will fit. but i am sure you could figure something out. For reference i am running
454
victor jr intake(pretty high)
1/2" carb spacer
small block frame mounts
mild drop base air cleaner(not a super drop)
3" k+n air filter
I have a custom 3" cowl hood and this setup barely clears the hood, just barely. So with BBC frame mounts and an RPM intake without a carb spacer, and a big drop base air cleaner, I think you could make it work. I hated giving up my formula hood, but in the future i think i might go with fuel injection and put a low pro throttle body on it and go back with the forrmula hood. Also VFN is one of hte only cowl hood manufacturers for firebirds and there standard is a 4" is in my opinion is huge. I had too pay $$ for a custom 3".

[yody]

also you will need a different flywheel and bellhousing, might as well use a new clutch. shifter location should be similar, I am sure you can make it work. NOt sure on driveshaft but with 500horse i think you might want a new one anyway. That motor is super streetable, but could use a more aggresive cam for way more HP. Chicanes setup is really nice(without those huge 2.25 headers)

[chicane67]

Real men use 2.25" headers with 502's.........

[yody]

2.25 primary headers are only necessary on over 700horse, on a 5-600 horse all you need is 2" even 1 7/8 will work good

[ALLACTIONMAN]

MUCHOS GRACIAS (correct spelling ?) !!!
It sounds to be a little more than I was hopin' for...so, the Poncho is going to Kaufman racing in Ohio, if all goes as planned, for a major horse/torque rebuild, hehehe.
Thx again for the replys
Todd