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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Jul 2004
      Location
      Braselton, Ga.
      Posts
      1,477
      Country Flag: United States

      Gluing patch panels in..........

      I was at school tonight and as I was leaving I dropped by the paint and body class. The instructor was having the students put the patch panels in with epoxy! He said that this is the new way of doing them instead of welding. I didn't say anything but it looked like crap.
      Has any one heard of this?



    2. #2
      Join Date
      May 2008
      Location
      Chicago
      Posts
      609
      Country Flag: United States
      Yes a lot of shops are doing this on newer cars. I heard it holds but I owuld never personally trust it.

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Oct 2006
      Location
      McKinney, TX
      Posts
      899
      Country Flag: United States
      Scary as it sounds, this is actualy the way many modern cars are built at the assembly plant!

      Even scarier? 3M has a 2-sided tape so strong that when it is used to join two pieces of metal, its tear apart strength is greater than the same two pieces of metal when welded together!
      Confucius says, "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life"

      My build Beast

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Feb 2006
      Location
      NYC NY
      Posts
      35
      my only concerns would be regarding filling the gaps and having them last long term.
      I've seen epoxies so strong that when dropped on concrete and you try to remove it the concrete comes up with the epoxy.
      -Jason G-

      94 Pontiac Firebird LT1,T56, 315 x 4

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Mar 2007
      Location
      Florida
      Posts
      2,391
      Country Flag: United States
      I've used the 3M two part panel adhesive. AMAZING strength! First time I used it I bonded a bunch of small sheetmetal scraps together and tried to separate them with mechanical force, chisels etc.. Can't be done without tearing the metal. I've found it comes in handy for certain situations such as repairing window channels where you'd normally need to remove interior parts to reduce the risk of fire welding.

      I replaced about 8-10" of exterior sheetmetal of this C pillar in my 74 Camaro. It had rusted through where the vinyl top ends from the door window to the rear window. Used a panel flanger, formed a piece of sheetmetal, and bonded it in. Skim coat, primer and paint as usual. Sold the car a few years later with no signs of the panel repair in the paint even though it was stored outside in New England (yes new owner was informed). This was a bracket race car and I expected ghosting on an upper panel that the sun would beat on. I wouldn't do that type of repair on a show car upper panel because the thick area where the patch and original sheetmetal overlap will heat and cool at a different rate and I still think ghosting would eventually occur on any panels subjected to direct sun. A low panel down by the rockers or bottoms of the fenders would probably not have a ghosting problem unless the car was rountinely subjected to extremes like going from a heated garage to below freezing temperatures.


    6. #6
      Join Date
      Jul 2010
      Posts
      497
      Country Flag: North Korea
      Quote Originally Posted by protouring70 View Post
      I was at school tonight and as I was leaving I dropped by the paint and body class. The instructor was having the students put the patch panels in with epoxy! He said that this is the new way of doing them instead of welding. I didn't say anything but it looked like crap.
      Has any one heard of this?
      A mopar mag used it with a manual tranny swap(new cover) and had good luck with it.

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Oct 2009
      Location
      Amherst, OH
      Posts
      524
      Country Flag: United States
      I've worked with 3M's Panel Bonder for years, definately as strong as advertised! Much easier than breaking out the welder too, and filling in a bunch of plug welds. I'm actually on my way to work right now to glue a quarter panel on a 07 Saturn Aura right now....lol (some welding is still required though) You can glue quarter's, roof's, and door skins on with the stuff. Basically, anything with an outer skin. Anything that has to do with the structure of the body, and we have to weld it for strength. Patch panels aren't structural, but see explination below...

      However, we're not allowed to glue "cosmetic" seams with the stuff, because it will eventually shrink up and leave "ghost lines" where the seam is. I just took an I-CAR (like ASE for body shops) class on panel bonding, and they don't recommend doing this either. I wouldn't take any chances....just weld it in so you know for 100% sure you won't have any problems down the road.
      Josh

      1968 Firebird project thread - https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...41#post1180941

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Jul 2004
      Location
      Braselton, Ga.
      Posts
      1,477
      Country Flag: United States
      Well, its more popular than I thought!

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Aug 2004
      Location
      Greenville, IL
      Posts
      262
      Country Flag: United States
      We use two part panel adhesives every day to glue new complete panels on (roofs, bed sides, door skins). Don't use it for "patch" panels. It doesn't expand and contract the same as metal, therefore if you put filler over it it will eventually crack. Hell we even glue all the pinch weld on a quarter replacement, but we still weld and fill the seam.

      This is just my .02.
      Joe Marti
      86 Monte Carlo SS build thread
      65 Mustang Coupe
      00 WS6 Trans Am (wife's car)
      15 Silverado LTZ 4x4

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Location
      The most easterly point in North America,NL Canada
      Posts
      32
      This is not new by any means and is accepted widely in the automotive industry.I personally used Fusor brand metal bonding adhesive back in 96' to put a qtr. panel on a dodge shadow.It belonged to a neighbour of mine and I watched that car rot out for the next 4-5 years and it never showed any signs of separating or cracking.Hendick Motorsports tested this product on several of their cars that eventually ended up in wrecks and showed no problems.

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      Location
      Jacksonville Florida
      Posts
      667
      As strong as this stuff is,the only patches I would do with metal panel adhesive is a floor patch, this stuff is made for full panel replacement,

      it has been around for long time
      Do what's right,not what's easy
      69 Firebird
      71 Cuda
      98 Supra 6speed white APU
      98 Lexus GS400tt widebody

      Elite Custom Body
      Stefan B.

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      Posts
      6
      I just replaced the rear cab corner for a 99 silverado left side,no door so it was huge..i used Fusor metal bond and called them about ghosting lines showing..the truck is pewter..the rep said its not the glue that shows the line,it's the metal.He said grind the edge and bevel it thin then glue and it should hide.I did and I never saw the first ghosting at all.I love it when i can use it,because its obvious welding exposes metal on the back side which is hard to get to to treat sometimes.

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Jan 2010
      Location
      Delaware
      Posts
      689
      Can you use this stuff for attaching fiberglass to metal, and fiberglass to fiberglass? Or is there something better for that? I have a 'glass hood, fenders, nose, etc that I want to assemble into a 1 piece tilt front end. Since the pieces are race weight and extremely light I will need to reinforce it, and I was going to pick up a load of those fiberglass hollow poles the military uses for radio antenna masts....then cut them up and use them as a support structure on the underside.

      In the front, I want to have a metal spoiler and front valance, as I dont think fiberglass is ideal for the kind of back and down forces I believe will be developed at high speed. So I envision a sort of "cowcatcher" design like the old trains had....lol. The tilt hardware will be attached to this.

      Anyway, I guess I could bond it all with fiberglass, but it seems to me that there must be adhesives today better for this purpose.

      Thanks for the help.
      1973 Trans Am 455 SR block, ported 6x-8 heads, solid cam, Victor intake, 830 CSU carb, aluminum rods, 77mm Garrett turbo and methanol injection. 1064hp at the flywheel@5500 rpm

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      Posts
      6
      Quote Originally Posted by aronhk_md View Post
      Can you use this stuff for attaching fiberglass to metal, and fiberglass to fiberglass? Or is there something better for that? I have a 'glass hood, fenders, nose, etc that I want to assemble into a 1 piece tilt front end. Since the pieces are race weight and extremely light I will need to reinforce it, and I was going to pick up a load of those fiberglass hollow poles the military uses for radio antenna masts....then cut them up and use them as a support structure on the underside.

      In the front, I want to have a metal spoiler and front valance, as I dont think fiberglass is ideal for the kind of back and down forces I believe will be developed at high speed. So I envision a sort of "cowcatcher" design like the old trains had....lol. The tilt hardware will be attached to this.

      Anyway, I guess I could bond it all with fiberglass, but it seems to me that there must be adhesives today better for this purpose.

      Thanks for the help.
      I have used Fusor for fiberlass repairs but the part number doesn't come to mind at the moment.Search Lord.com for Fusor product info.

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      Location
      Mountain View, CA
      Posts
      9,583
      Country Flag: United States
      IIRC Rupp panel epoxied the smooth firewall on the "Track Rat" project.
      True T.

      Whats new with Project 1/2-Trak?


      Follow my wisecracks on Sports, Food, Politics and other BS on Twitter.

      My blog

      When they kick out your front door, How you gonna come?
      With your hands on your head, Or on the trigger of your gun?

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Jan 2010
      Location
      Delaware
      Posts
      689
      Fusor.....thanks, I'll check into it.
      1973 Trans Am 455 SR block, ported 6x-8 heads, solid cam, Victor intake, 830 CSU carb, aluminum rods, 77mm Garrett turbo and methanol injection. 1064hp at the flywheel@5500 rpm

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Nov 2007
      Posts
      464
      Quote Originally Posted by aronhk_md View Post
      Fusor.....thanks, I'll check into it.

      Check out this site, they have fusor including metal to FG: http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/lord...6-p-15938.aspx
      Ron
      69 Camaro Redfire, thanks to
      Marquez Design | Ring Brothers

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Jan 2010
      Location
      Delaware
      Posts
      689
      Not cheap is it? Ouch. Guess I'll get it all laid out and try to figure out the quantity I'll need.
      1973 Trans Am 455 SR block, ported 6x-8 heads, solid cam, Victor intake, 830 CSU carb, aluminum rods, 77mm Garrett turbo and methanol injection. 1064hp at the flywheel@5500 rpm

    19. #19
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      Location
      Jacksonville Florida
      Posts
      667
      considering that there is no welding gas,wire,grinding discs,weld-through primer and time doing all the grinding,$28-35 per cartridge is a good price IMO, at least that's what I'm paying and honestly I'd recommend using SEM over Fusor,I've used Fusor and do not like it, the glass beads don't need to me there,Duramix/Automix works without them,SEM don't have them,Norton don't have them.
      Do what's right,not what's easy
      69 Firebird
      71 Cuda
      98 Supra 6speed white APU
      98 Lexus GS400tt widebody

      Elite Custom Body
      Stefan B.

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Jan 2010
      Location
      Delaware
      Posts
      689
      I was referring to the bonding of fiberglass to fiberglass.....and metal to fiberglass. And comparing an adhesive to using glass resins. I know it wasnt the original intent of this thread.
      1973 Trans Am 455 SR block, ported 6x-8 heads, solid cam, Victor intake, 830 CSU carb, aluminum rods, 77mm Garrett turbo and methanol injection. 1064hp at the flywheel@5500 rpm

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