Rivet nut / nut insert tools

[parsonsj]

Hey guys,

Does anybody have any experience with rivet nut or nut insert installation? I've used several different (all manual) types of tools, and its still hit or miss if I'm going to get a good "set".

I'm ready to pull the trigger on an expensive spin-pull-spin tool ($1400 ), so I was wondering if anybody had any other ideas...

thanks!

jp

[neki67]

90% of the times I use the rivet/insert nut handtool I have, I get a good 'set'. Defenitely good enough for me and I'm using a very modestly priced one (approx. US $80,-).

What kind and/or what size of nuts are you using, John? Mine is suitable up to 8mm (5/16"). Have used a couple of 10mm but those were very difficult to set properly.

René

[Bryce]

I use and sell Marson at my hardware store. I have never had any problems.

I even have used a bolt and nut to expand the riv-nuts.

The key is the hole diameter, it has to be perfect and a tight fit. Also determining the grip length with ensure a perfect installation.

[parsonsj]

I use a variety of sizes, from 10-24 to 3/8-16. The most recent "miss" was a 3/8-16.

I agree with hole size being perfect... I use a a step drill to get nice round holes.

I've tried the plier-type setups, the spin mandrel tools, and custom make your own via bolt and nut. All of the methods work most of the time, but I have about a 10% failure rate, and that's too high for me.

I'm getting ready to install a bunch of inserts on Unfair and I want better accuracy.

jp

[Bow Tie 67]

Are you sure its the tool causing it and not a defective rivnut. How are the failing , spining in the hole?

[Bow Tie 67]

I found 3/8 size works much better with a weld nut.

[parsonsj]

How are they failing , spinning in the hole?

Yes, that, or "lifting" where the insert isn't flush to the parent metal, or inserting at a slight angle to the parent metal. I've had all three types of failure happen.

I found 3/8 size works much better with a weld nut.

So you've have difficulties with them too, I see. On II Much I would install the insert, then put two small tack welds on either side. But I'm trying to find a method or tool that works 99% of the time that I don't need to weld to have confidence it will work.

jp

[Bryce]

Have you tried the pop rivet type pull tool? About 50 bucks from Marson. I have never had it not work. It works on sizes up to 5/16.

[vintageracer]

I used an expensive at the time hand tool (1996) for installing LOT'S of nutserts on my 66 Shelby when it was built and only had 2 failures in 10 years. My tool is a pull type. The failures were ultimately spinning of the nutsert. Nothing particularly stressed was/is being held on the nutserts (brake lines, wiring harness's expansion tanks etc. Good holes, a good hand tool and they worked great for me. I still have the tool and still use it succesfully to date. I cannot remember the brand name at this time.

I would solicit a lot of information from users on which hand tool may work the best with the most crimp.

Personlly I am 100% sold on using nutserts!

[parsonsj]

Have you tried the pop rivet type pull tool? About 50 bucks from Marson.

Yes and no. I've used the McMaster-Carr insert pull-type tool, but found it difficult to get good "crimps".

I would solicit a lot of information from users on which hand tool may work the best with the most crimp.

That's what I'm trying to do, lol! The Marson brand is one I'm not familiar with. Is it available online?

[Bryce]

http://www.alcoa.com/fastening_syste...uct_browse.asp

Alcoa is the parent company of Marson

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...ed=0CDIQrQQwAA

Here is a google search.

Also, Marshalls industrial hardware in San Diego sells them. We can ship anywhere as well. 858 271 5555.

(full disclosure, this is a hardware store that I have worked at for 5.5 years now. I worked there while I put myself through college, now I work saturdays and every other friday to help out. Word of mouth has advetised that they have a engineer (me) on site that will answer technical questions and answer car questions as well. So its a really fun job!)

[parsonsj]

So is Marson the "Snap-on" of rivet-nut insertion tools? Sounds like I should give it a try.

[Larry Callahan]

I use these all the time

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/3271/=86tdt8

[Bryce]

I would have to say Marson is one of the top brands!

Larry, The only issue with that install tool is if it starts to spin you are screwed. With the pull type the hole can be slightly oversized.

The only issue with the pull type is the room required for the tool.

[Larry Callahan]

I have had a few spin but after that I started making the hole smaller. I also can't find the other style like the one above that used a thrust bearing. Most of the ones I have are the that style but I think the company went belly up.

[Bow Tie 67]

The majority of my experience has been with aviation aluminum rivnuts, using a rivet type squeeze gun. These have a small key under the head that is supposed to prevent rotation, of course the hole has to have a keyway for this " bump ". That type has built in anti rotation, as far as croocked, or not flush, that would stem from the type of tool your using. With the squeeze type you can hold downward pressure and keep it straight will locking the insert. With steel inserts this becomes more critical, as the parent metal is harder to compress. And I would say the manufacturing process is not held to high tolerance in respect to metallurgy, combined these factors and 10% is not bad.

Now my thoughts are just that, mine, but once you step up to a 3/8" course thread, I would assume your attaching something with more subsistence and would not want to rely on a non-keyed insert to preform its job over the long haul, at least not without a small tack weld.

[parsonsj]

I've used 3/8" inserts for exhaust hangers and brackets (oil filter, 'glass bumper, etc.). 5/16 for hanging radiators or ground straps. I certainly wouldn't use them for structural parts like a tranny crossmember or something.

Larry the ones you showed me should be fine if kept lubricated on the thrust surface. I've been looking fondly at a $1500 spin-pull-spin tool....

jp

[Bow Tie 67]

John,

Please dont think I would believe you would use 3/8" for structure. The 3/8" I used was for the rear most exhaust hanger. My exhaust does not have any flex couplings, and is subject to high vibration, so I used weld nuts.

It sounds like your looking at a squeeze puller, if thats the case I think $1500 is outrageous. Now if you plan on doing thousands of pulls, then I might justify the cost.

They are " neat " little fasteners, but I have never seen them used in an area that supports much weight or requires frequent removal. Again, this observation is from an aviation perspective.

I'm curious, how many will you be pulling?

[parsonsj]

I'm curious, how many will you be pulling?

I like to use 10-24 inserts for all the boxes (ECM, ABS controller, Traction box, etc.), plus for all the anti-vibration/hold-down straps for wiring and hardlines. I use 1/4-20 for things like radiators/etc. I guess I'm saying I will use a *lot* of them. I just prefer not to have bolts and nuts or metal screws... so nut inserts really make R&R much easier.

I'd guess I'll have 100 or so in the car.

jp

[Patrick]

John,

I have a couple of the Marson tools that you are more than welcome to use. You can swing by and pick up or I can leave with Frank.

Patrick