Rivet nut / nut insert tools

[parsonsj]

Patrick,



I'd love to borrow one just to see how well it works. Frank says he has some too... but his tools are rarely where he left them.

jp

[parsonsj]

Hey guys,

I dropped by and borrowed Frank's Marson tool today. I got home and conducted the test in the photos you can see below. I was disappointed, and the pictures show why. I was still able to spin the insert I installed by the Marson tool. (by threading a bolt all the down and turning with moderate force). And.. it took a *lot* of effort to install -- I really had to bear down, and that was on a work bench with everything at ideal placement and working height.

In the photo, the corner insert (the yellow cad-plated) was installed using my custom tool (that takes 3 hands to manage -- which is why I'm looking for something better) Notice how the Marson-installed insert next to it is taller -- it compressed less -- and its a little off angle-wise.

For comparison I tried one of the Marson inserts that came with the tool -- still lots of effort, and it didn't pass my spin test. The final insert is a nut-sert (my preferred insert), which the Marson tool can't install (not enough grip depth). I've had decent luck with them, but it still takes my custom install tool.

Maybe that's the best I can get... but I was hoping for something better.

(hope all that makes sense)





jp

[parsonsj]

Check out this video

http://www.emhart.com/media/win/POPNutApp.wmv

Sigh.

[mikey]

I've used the marson tool for the last twenty years and never had a failure with it. You might not be setting it correctly. I've loaned it out several times without proper instructions and they have trouble with it. Once I showed them th correct way to use it no problems.

[parsonsj]

Once I showed them the correct way to use it no problems.

I'm all ears. It seems pretty simple to me: drill hole, screw insert onto tool, put into hole, squeeze really hard, unscrew tool from insert.

What could I be missing?

jp

[Bryce]

But you need to have the correct grip length for the material thickness. So you need to adjust the tool to make sure you pull tight enough.

[parsonsj]

The sheet metal in the photos is .060 steel (16 gauge). I adjusted the tool to provide the longest grip length possible. I really wanted more grip length, but there wasn't any more adjustment.

Is it possible I had too much grip length? Even though my custom (and hard to use) tool pulled the insert straighter with more spin resistance?

Hell, I may be using the term "grip length" wrong. I wanted the most possible compression of the insert. Does "more compression" correspond to "longer grip length"?

thanks!

[Bow Tie 67]

The sheet metal in the photos is .060 steel (16 gauge). I adjusted the tool to provide the longest grip length possible. I really wanted more grip length, but there wasn't any more adjustment.

Is it possible I had too much grip length? Even though my custom (and hard to use) tool pulled the insert straighter with more spin resistance?

Hell, I may be using the term "grip length" wrong. I wanted the most possible compression of the insert. Does "more compression" correspond to "longer grip length"?

thanks!

Is it possible to thread the nutsert on slightly so you can pull with less effort? If so try pulling in that manor and then screw tool in more and pull for final locking pressure and " straight-ness ".

Your a Virgo I'd guess.

[parsonsj]

A Virgo? I've no idea what that means.

I tried the "pull a little then pull more" method. I'm not really enthused with the results. I tried to go with smaller inserts (8-32) to see if that would take less effort. Not much success there either.

I've got Larry's tool suggestion on order from McMaster... I'll let you know how that works out.

Anybody ever used this tool? ("First time, pays for itself")
http://www.rivetnuttool.com/

jp

[Jim Nilsen]

That's a slick little inclined plane, looks simple enough if you have the room.

I have used the Rivnut brand stuff for years and really like the way they work. I also bought one of the cheap units from J.C. Whitney and so far they have not wanted to spin on me.

Do your rivet nutes have the serated type grip edge on them?

Let us know how the new stuff works out ?

[KWIKND]

We use them a lot on the high end high speed doors we sell. I was always tempted to try sleeve retainer Loctite (Green) prior to installation, once they get crossed or worn, then spin its all over. Have to grind them off. Don't forget the anti-seaze with stainless bolts also.

Good Luck
Dan

[Modo Innovations]

Is it possible I had too much grip length? Even though my custom (and hard to use) tool pulled the insert straighter with more spin resistance?

I would think yes, just like you can have too much grip length on a solid rivet. When a rivet is too long and starts swage it will start to fold over. So if a steel rivnut is too long it will be harder to set correctly than a solid rivet would be.
Are you doing any de-burr on the hole as far as chamfering it? I just flat file the burrs off and no chamfer.

[parsonsj]

Yes, I de-bur the hole... though not on the back side (since that is often inaccessible in the real world, I thought it was "cheating".

I got the McMaster tools that Larry uses just now. I'll give them a try and report back.

jp

[parsonsj]

Ladies and gentlemen: we have a winner!!!

The McMaster tool works very very well. A two handed tool, that uses ordinary wrenches and sockets, and takes about 15 seconds to install. I bought two: one each for 10 and 1/4" inserts.

I'm gonna buy two more for 5/16" and 3/8" inserts.

thanks guys (and especially: thank you Larry!)

jp

[parsonsj]

Here's a link to the website for these tools (McMaster is reselling them):

http://sherex.stage.thomasnet-naviga...1010|1061|1062

jp

[MuscleRodz]

The Marsons are a modified pop rivet gun and personally think they suck as a rivnut tool. There are 2 different quality rivnuts also. i have not used anything larger than 1/4", but the good ones will have tit on the back side of the flange. With our setup, you make a notch with the notching tool that the tit sits in to prevent the rivnut from rotating. You may have to go look in A/C spuce to get the good ones. I can post pics of my tool set later if need be. John already knows I got the cool tools

[parsonsj]

John already knows I got the cool tools

Oh yeah, Mr. Aircraft Crimper Master.

jp

[Larry Callahan]

We install a lot of those at the day job and I now have several of them in MotiV8r. I really like how they work.

[parsonsj]

And sure: let's have a look at these new-fangled anti-rotation rivet nuts. I'd like to know more about them.

jp

[paul67]

I used to make my own yrs ago and to stop the insert spinning was put an anti slip washer between the tool and nutsert,this then gripped the tool to the nutsert.