Calling all Paint Experts

[Roger Poirier]

Guys and gals,

I'am going to have my 1969 GTO painted in the next 2 months. This car is a frame off, with all new NOS body panels. My concern is not the price of the paint job, but getting the job done right! It is about 90% ready to go to paint. Getting that last 10% of work done takes forever. The company that is painting it is www.motorcitysteel.net

Nothing is yet set in stone, but here is my understanding after final priming and sanding.

Paint Color - Black base coat / clear coat
Paint both is a down draft with temp. control.

Paint
Clear
Wet Sand
Paint Graphics
Clear
Wet Sand
Polish

Why isn't the painter sanding after the first paint, before clear?
What # of sandpaper should be used right before paint.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks R.P.

[Quick GN]

There is no need to sand the base coat prior to laying clear over top of it. the steps you layed out seem very good! and the final sand depends on the color. When I am painting silver I like 600 min but usually give it a ounce over will 800 wet. however if the car is going to be a solid colour (Black,red,white) I would finish up with 400

[vanzuuk1]

the first layer of color is called basecoat and has no shine , just color.When the clear is sprayed over the base coat there is a layer of clear over the color that you can smooth out by sanding and polishing.The smoother the clear gets the deeper the shine will be,and the crisp reflections will add to that effect.The common misperception people have is that more paint on the car is better.Heavy paint will crack, shrink,chip easier and not age as well as the correct amount of paint.The reason your painter is clearing before the graphics is probably to protect the paint while they tape out the stripes.When they wet sand the final coat it will remove the ridge at the end of the graphics and you wont feel any edge between colors. I am not a body guy but I know about graphics and clear, etc.

[ProdigyCustoms]

He should finish to at least 400 for solid color, or possibly 600 for super metalic like silver. then base and clear one right after another. he will probably nib it with 1000 to 15000, or maybe even a blue / green scotch brite, lay out graphics and clear again

[Roger Poirier]

Thanks guys,

I feel better now that a few of you have checked in. The painter did say less is better as far as total coats of paint. He states the heavier you lay it, from primer to paint the easier it is to chip. Todays paint does not need multiple coats because of the mil thickness.

So when everyone tells me that their car has 6 coats of paint and 8 coats of clear, long term bad news. Correct?

The painter also mentioned that with two applications of clear, it will add more depth to the paint and have less orange peel.

R.P.

[68protouring454]

you do not need 8 coats of clear, if it is a high solids clear like spies/standox/sikkens 2 will be more than plenty, if it is dupont/sherwin etc i would go 3-4, when applying base you apply such light coats and the guns atomize it so nicely it will not have orange peel unless the painter is dirt dumb, then once handslick, tack cloth off and clear medium wet coats, yes less coats most of the time is less orange peel in the clear, but if done in a booth most clears will lay done when baked or drying, clear should be sanded and buffed anyway for dust etc, so you will kill alot of the orange peel that way, then if you want a real nice paint job have it flat sanded and buffed
jake

[Roger Poirier]

Jake,

Flat sanded, meaning? After the last coat of clear, the entire car gets wet sanded before buffing? Maybe 1000 or 2000 sandpaper? Correct? Thanks R.P.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Jake,

Flat sanded, meaning? After the last coat of clear, the entire car gets wet sanded before buffing? Maybe 1000 or 2000 sandpaper? Correct? Thanks R.P.

Probably 1000 then 2000 as a matter of fact. Depending on the level of peel.

[68protouring454]

franks in the know,,
depending on peel i start from 1000-1500 then finish with 2000-2500, usually 2500 cause it buffs out so quick, and nice.
generally the day after it is sprayed is best to sand and buff as the clear is soft and you can work it, goodluck
jake

[BRIAN]

Do you know the materials he or she is using? You will be very surprised as to what big name shops use as far as off brand products. Sometimes to your advantage sometimes not. Reading your schedule it seams fine. Everybody has a way of doing things. I would use an intercoat clear over the base if it is metallic and than lay out the graphics.
As far as the clear they do make a big difference as to what they use. Some of the high solids clears look wavy, sort of large orange peel instead of a finer texture. Some of the off brand clears lay down like glass and give a laquer like flatness. HOC clear also works great and can be laid up in higher mills. In the end ask a lot of questions you are laying out the cash. If they are doing the right thing they have nothing to hide. As a plus I would schedule to be there after the 1st coat of clear as you can use this time to eye down the body work. If it isn't acceptable stop any progress at that point. Keep in mind paint is paint. There will always be defects of some sort to deal with. Pay particular attention to the lower rockers. inner wheel lips, and jambs. Poor application can make a great paint job look average.
Best advice is to pull the actual painter aside before the job and grease his palm with a $100. Hate to say it but it is motivation to actually bend down and hit every nook and cranny. Good luck.

[Roger Poirier]

I will check with the painter to confirm what type of Dupont paint is used. My understanding it's their top of the line paint. I have spent the last 3 months at the shop, as they have allowed me to detail my misc. parts in the corner of the paint building. I'm learning a lot. Certainly the more time put into the body and paint the better the outcome. It's all labor and some material. Very hard work!

They staff five in the paint dept. One primary painter, Two old school guys, and two younger people who work on the every day stuff. The old school guys seem to do all the resto and high end work.
Note: The old school men, they hand block over and over while the newer or younger two like that orbital sander. LOL

P.S. This is my second painter as the first one never finished the job. Since I have had major back and other surgerys, the car has sat in his paint shop for ten years. I did read the article put forth by Prodigy. Thats me alright, add me to the taken list. Yes, he was paid in full before the job was ever completed. My mistake!

The car has come into Motor City Steel around 75% complete. The body is blocked very nicely by the past painter, however, most of todays work has been spent bringing the metal to match my ball bearing test throughout the body. Current price to have the car completed was estimated at $10,500 which includes detailing the firewall, wheel wells, inner fenders, underside of hood and trunk, and ram air intake componets. I figure after all is said and done, with extras that I know are going to occur, I'm in for about
$12,500 - $13,000.

R.P.

[Happyfunballs]

Another option:

Base
Paint Graphics
Clear
Wet Sand
Clear
Wet Sand
Polish


This method should bury the graphics in clear(depending on level of detail)

[Milow68]

I had an veteran hot rodder (paints everything himself (and his son has painted a few vehicles for me, so it runs in the family LOL) tell me that you are not suppose to break (sand) the base coat and then clear! Always spray base and then clear. But you can sand base and then re base coat and can clear, sand and re clear. Just what I have heard, he does work for a local paint store.
Just my .02

Brad

[ProdigyCustoms]

Your friend is correct Brad

[gtome]

Great info here!! The last paint job I did, I used the 3M trizac (?) 3000 grit for the final sanding, it was amazing!! Nearly shined before I polished it. Maybe others have used it here before, or should?

[Happyfunballs]

Absolutely, that's a good system for final sanding before buffing.