Lingenfelter Builds Another T/A

[72ratnova]

i really like the red on these cars, better than the white
http://www.lsxtv.com/forum/lingenfel...er-t-2788.html

[ArtosDracon]

One of the better firebird conversions I've seen actually.

[79PonchoUK]

Personally, I hate that front end.

[68Formula]

I like it, except for the bird on the hood is weird.

[srh3trinity]

I like the wheels, are those available to purchase??

[John Wright]

Personally, I hate that front end.

Yeah, the grill/headlights is kinda funky....does it really need to be in-set that much? Maybe if it was shallower it would look better...I dunno, the front end styling doesn't work for some reason

[BobB66SS]

I still don't understand why they're putting a second gen nose on these. Looks out of place on a body modeled after a first gen.

[tazzz25906112]

HRE did the wheels I believe..... There is/was a company out of the mid west that was doing a GTO with Wagner (designer of the GTO for Pontiac) and HRE did the wheels for them.... These wheels reflect such a close resemblance that I'd be shocked to discover otherwise....

[twosaturns]

I still don't understand why they're putting a second gen nose on these. Looks out of place on a body modeled after a first gen.

I don't understand why they are building them at all; they are trying to take the swoopy profile of the original and put it on a boxy, federally mandated safety cage of a modern car. seriously cartoonish looking.

[critter]

HRE did build the wheels for the Wanger's car. That company has tanked. Those HRE wheels drew a lot of interest until people saw the price tag. Sticker shock stopped most people.

[hdesign]

Actually, I designed the wheels for the Wanger's GTO and the car itself. HRE did cut the wheels I designed. The wheels on the Lingenfelter car are not the wheels I designed. Both are obviously based on the original Pontiac rally wheels.

Big 3 Performance is (at the moment) not out of business yet but it's unfortunately looking that way. The new owner of Big 3 and Jim Wangers are battling over a bunch of details. I hope they can pull things together and move forward. I hate to see a great car go to waste because of personality conflicts. The founder and former owner of Big 3 and I speak regularly.

I think as far as fit and finish, the Lingenfelter car is excellent. The white car was great and I loved the throwback interior they did. The hood graphic has to be different from the original hood bird due to trademarks.


On a side note and I apologize for the shameless hijack: I'm currently partnering with the the team at Restore A Muscle Car ( a brand new PT.com sponsor) to develop a Firebird inspired conversion package for the 5th Gen Camaro. These are REAL Pontiac guys who specialize in Firebirds and are responsible for the annual Bandit Run.

Here's a teaser rendering of the direction we're going in. We're later to the game than most because we've put a ton of thought and research into the project and we wanted to do everything humanly possible to create a car that isn't just a rebadged, plastic-cladded Camaro with a split grill. The modeling is pretty far along at this point and some parts are being laid up in F.glass this week.

All feedback welcome, I'd love to hear what the die-hard Pontiac fans say as they are the toughest crowd to please as we've discovered.

We'll be doing a press release in the next few days. Stay tuned.

[srh3trinity]

Now that looks nice. It fits more with the lines of the car than the second gen styled nose does.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

god that BIRD is fuggin awful!!

[wmhjr]

HRE did the wheels I believe..... There is/was a company out of the mid west that was doing a GTO with Wagner (designer of the GTO for Pontiac) and HRE did the wheels for them.... These wheels reflect such a close resemblance that I'd be shocked to discover otherwise....

One correction (as I'm a Pontiac guy...)

Wangers is NOT the "designer of the GTO". Jim Wangers was the Chief Marketing Manager for Pontiac back in the '60s and was responsible for the promotion of the car. He was - and is - influential in the GTO circles. However, the design of the car was a combination of John De Lorean, Russel Gee and Bill Collins - with most people saying that De Lorean was the real mover and shaker. Wangers has some pretty strong opinions, and recently published some stuff not very friendly to Pontiac management following the '60s. Lots of people are under a mistaken impression that Wangers was an engineer or a designer because he is so prominent in the promotion of the car - and because he has remained so involved over the years.

I actually don't mind the front end of the Lingenfelter conversion but I don't like the back end. I frankly feel the same way about your design, Ben. Neither of them are throwbacks to a 1st gen. They're both to me 2nd gen kinds of looks, and I'm partial to the front end of the '70 TA. I can't put my finger on what the "right" back end would be, but neither option really turns me on yet. I'm also still hating the dash that Lingenfelter has - it's essentially a factory look from the new Camaro, which I cannot state strongly enough how much I don't like it.

[critter]

Maybe Big3 hasn't tanked but the Pontiac press reported it that way in the last issue of High Performance Pontiac. Just saying 'cause I made that statement.

[hdesign]

We really wanted to avoid doing a car inspired by a specific year or something that was so obviously retro. Where do you go after you've gone retro? The next year newer than that?

What would a 2011 Firebird look like if the tables were turned and Chevy was dissolved? How would GM have styled it? We started with the main body mass, quarters, doors and fenders. Everything else was a clean slate.

I personally like a 70-73 the best but everyone likes different generations and years within that generation. We watched about 25 online forums and exhausted all efforts to get find a balance of what people liked and what they hated about other conversion packages.

There's 4 other conversion packages we're aware of that exist or are heading to market. All 4 are based on some variation of a 2nd gen. In contrast,the headlight/grill and shaker scoop are the only elements that are connected to a 2nd gen on our car. And even those elements aren't like someone snagged a nose off a 70 or a 77 and forced it onto the 2010 body, added a 10" tall wing or mudded in Aston Martin tail lights that don't fit. There's styling elements inspired by all generations but they're incorporated as modern design touches.

Then we took into account what parts we could produce or modify within a realistic pricing boundary that retains a factory warranty on this model. You'll notice that there's no plastic kit looking garbage hanging off of it. We actually carved a "Firebird" out of the Camaro.

If all goes well, we're already planning on a upper-level super car that is truly Pontiac big block powered, minus the factory warranty. It's a trade off, an affordable package with a warranty vs. ideal powertrain and voided warranty.

[Magntik]

I saw this "Firebird" at the Newton Ia Power Tour stop. The hood was up and a ton of people were standing around it. Made it hard to get pictures but I managed a few.

The guy who was either the owner or driver was telling a pretty good story on how its one of only a couple and the "huge" amount of money it costs. But it's worth it to be one of the first.

I was trying to look the car over without laughing at this guy.

In person it does look like the fit and finish is damn good. Paint is good, panel alignment is good. Yeah the hood decal is goofy, but I understand the trademark thing, guess I would have left it off.
It's pretty obvious what the car represents, and if you don't know I don't think the goofy hood decal is going to give you a clue.

It didn't look to me like the one I saw had any changes made to the interior or dash like some of the other ones. But there were a lot of people and I didn't go compare it to the loads of '10 Camaros that were there.

[BuddyP]

Kinda neat, but never got into Fake brandings. Kit Lambo's and Ferrari's are even worse.

Was working on site at a place right across the street from Lingenfelter last summer... Whatever they kept pounding on the dyno with sounded pretty sweet.

[wmhjr]

I personally like a 70-73 the best but everyone likes different generations and years within that generation. We watched about 25 online forums and exhausted all efforts to get find a balance of what people liked and what they hated about other conversion packages.

I completely agree with you. Even if you stuck with the newer 2nd gen look like in your rendering (which I also like, btw) here's a thought for the back end. Take a look at the Lingenfelter design for the back. But, slim it down a little more like you did with yours - except somehow retain the outer radius edges of the lights. The Lingenfelter design to me is a little too "tall" and "blocky". Yours is a little too "flat" and doesn't remind me of anything Pontiac except maybe for a STE6000 (Sorry)

If all goes well, we're already planning on a upper-level super car that is truly Pontiac big block powered, minus the factory warranty. It's a trade off, an affordable package with a warranty vs. ideal powertrain and voided warranty.

MR1 or IA2 block? (BTW, you mean "standard" block, right?)

[hdesign]

The tail lights are actually a hybrid of 4th gen and 1st gen and need to fit the tall/blocky form factors inherent to the Camaro proportions. We can't just make 2 slashes on each side like a first gen, they'll get lost and make the rear end look gigantic. We also have the constraint of working within the rear fascia only, no mods to the quarter or trunklid....less cost, less to screw up or potentially create water leaks. Besides, we want too distinguish the car from the rest of the pack.

It's a red Lexan lens with an applied honeycomb blackout effect that covers the center tail panel as well. Behind the lens are a stacked pair of 10-12" wide LED linear arrays. Lighting all around the car is based on the technology you see on Euro cars like Porsche and Audi.

As far as the engine, it's early in the discussion and we're still making up a wish list and talking to potential vendors that want to get involved. I was referring more to the moniker of marketing as the legendary 455 BBP, something recognizable to Pontiac fans. The MR1(A) and the IA II are definitely on the table but we need to nail this car before moving to that one. We may do a lower budget TT 6cyl car also if the market is there. We'll see.