AWD Wagon Suggestions?

[dipren443]

We have a Legacy sedan, love it.

Big nod for a Subie wagon here. Mine is an ultra rare 2005 GT with a 5 speed. Slightly lowered on factory JDM Spec B struts and springs. Loads of fun in the snow. It is impossible to get the car out of line in the dry, and I drive the car like a hooligan. In the rain? Just as sure footed. In the snow? Throttle oversteer is easily attainable and very predictable.

[Lowend]

I've owned 3 Impreza chassis Subaru's and loved them all. Handling is more than good enough for a street car, and the 2 Wagons held a ton of stuff.
Go out and find a 2004-2007 WRX Wagon with a Manual. Buy a set of swaybars, and a Cobb Accessport (ECM Tuner) you will not be disappointed.

Was also VERY impressed with the VW Jetta TDI wagon, but they are $30K+

[sik68]

Oh, 1 more thing about the wrx's is that there is not a lot of sound deadening material in the car, so I find that a lot of road noise comes through the car. It doesn't bother me personally as a commuter car, but it's kind of aggravating to have to a conversation over road noise. When you test drive see if it bothers you (heavily dependent on tire choice though). As a family car a legacy wagon is quieter.

Again, it's a great car, I'm just focusing on the weak points so you're well informed. Even with the flat 4, spark plug changes are an easy DIY job. The wagons even have a tow rating!

+1 on the accessport

[Ash]

I've got a 2000 Volvo V70 XC AWD. The drive-train is the same as a V70R. For the 97-00 (the most inexpensive) The "full time AWD" system on these is an absolute Joke compared to other automakers. If you do all your own maintenance and stay away from the dealer, these are great cars that are initially really inexpensive for what you get. IPD's suspension and engine bits improve the handling and performance greatly (The IPD ECU upgrade/exhaust alone will take it from 190HP 210TQ to 230HP 270TQ...skip the exhaust and go strait pipe though)$4,000-$8,000 all day long used. . I love mine as a commuter, but it's a glorified FWD car. only sends power to the rear when slippage is detected.



I love the Impreza, but if I was going to buy a newish DD Subaru wagon tomorrow, I'd go this route in a heartbeat with the Second Gen 2004-2008 Forester XT (factory 2.5 Liter turbocharged) and bolt on the Used STI parts. A crossover size STI

http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-09...sti/index.html

OverView

The "secret" lies in the fact that the '04-08 XT model Forester like Doug's came from the factory with a turbocharged 2.5-liter engine very similar to the STI's. According to Doug, "The '04-08 Forester is basically a box-shaped WRX/ STI on stilts. Basically, if a part fits an '04 WRX/STI it fits on a XT Forester. The main differences performance-wise between the WRX/STI and the Forester XT are the use of a small TD04 turbo (same one found on the WRX), a top-mount intercooler that's smaller than a WRX's, a catted up-pipe like those found on a WRX, different ECU tuning (boost tops out around 11 psi on the Forester, whereas a WRX will hit 13 psi and a STI will hit 14.7 psi), and a fuel pump the same size/ flow rate as a WRX (130-lph rating compared to the 190-lph STI pump)." So as you can see, a Forester XT isn't exactly on par with a STI straight out of the box, as indicated by its factory rated 210 hp and 235 ft-lbs of torque, but with a few upgrades its 2.5-liter boxer can pump out STI-equivalent power and the Forester is actually 15 lbs lighter than a STI..........

Parts

According to Doug, the must-have parts to upgrade a XT to STI power under the hood are a STI non-catted up-pipe, a STI intercooler, a STI VF39 turbocharger and a STI axle-back exhaust system (although the front muffler hanger and tailpipes will need to be tweaked for proper fitment), a STI hood scoop from a JDM '02-03 WRX, and if you have an '04 XT you can directly swap in a STI ECU, but later year XTs will need a reflash (and of course a reflash is a good idea anyway if you make some other high performance mods to your XT). An STI fuel pump will work fine, but given how inexpensive a Walbro 255-lph fuel pump is, that's probably the better option because it gives you some room to grow.
The beauty of this upgrade path is that all the parts are easily sourced for around $1,000 from JDM importers and in the "For Sale" forums on popular Subie spots like nasioc.com and iwsti.com or from Doug's favorite shop eastcoastswappers.com.

Results

The surprising part about this pseudo-STI conversion is that it's not only inexpensive but also very effective in the power department. A stock Forester XT produces about 176 hp and 172 ft-lbs of torque on an all-wheel dyno, while an '04 STI generally produces about 235 hp and ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. With the above STI upgrades, Forester XTs generally produce about 260 whp and 300 wtq, making it more powerful than a stock STI. Doug was unsure why XTs make so much power with these simple STI upgrades, but some good theories include better airflow to the air intake because of the larger front grille opening on the Forester, better airflow to the top-mount intercoolerbecause of the shape/angle of the Forester's nose and hood, and perhaps even a less restrictive exhaust path.

it also goes on to talk about Struts being compatible with certain year SRX/STI's, Sway Bars being interchangable, Etc.

[scott0]

The only wagon i would ever own would be a rs6 avant. twin turbo v-10 making 580 hp its just too damn bad they are not for sale in the us :(

since you can't have a rs6 i think that anything from the subaru family will be good choice for you!

[ArtosDracon]

Syclone? :D

[Lowend]

RE: RS6
I don't think he probably wants to spend $100K on a daily driver wagon

[Tony_SS]

I've owned 3 Impreza chassis Subaru's and loved them all. Handling is more than good enough for a street car, and the 2 Wagons held a ton of stuff.
Go out and find a 2004-2007 WRX Wagon with a Manual. Buy a set of swaybars, and a Cobb Accessport (ECM Tuner) you will not be disappointed.

Was also VERY impressed with the VW Jetta TDI wagon, but they are $30K+

Why the 04-07? I'm finding alot of 02-03's for good prices.. is there anything wrong with the pre 04 models?

[Damn True]

The WRX wagon is pretty small. Roughly the same as a Mazda-3.

I would recommend a subaru Outback. Stay away from 97-99's though. The newer ones are nice. If you don't need the ground clearance of the Outback, the Legacy GT wagon is a bit lower, a bit more firmly suspended and is more often available with a manual trans. I had an Outback for ~8yrs. Loved it.

Of course, there is the Audi as well. The A4 wagon is a bit larger than a Legacy/Outback. Has a more sophisticated AWD system and more power as well with the 2.0T which is a more refined engine than the 6. The A6 platform and the "Allroad" variant is very very nice, but awfully pricey.

Also worth considering (though pricey and tougher to find) are the BMW 3 series and 5 series wagons. The 3 series is a bit smaller than the Subie, some have electrical and cooling issues. The 5 series are easier to find in AWD but are very pricey.

[Damn True]

I've owned 3 Impreza chassis Subaru's and loved them all. Handling is more than good enough for a street car, and the 2 Wagons held a ton of stuff.
Go out and find a 2004-2007 WRX Wagon with a Manual. Buy a set of swaybars, and a Cobb Accessport (ECM Tuner) you will not be disappointed.

Was also VERY impressed with the VW Jetta TDI wagon, but they are $30K+

FWIW, the Jetta TDI wagons can be had for well under $30k. We bought our '10 for about $27 loaded. Not AWD, and its a little smaller than a Legacy/Outback but its a really really nicely built car, and it's tough to beat 40+ mpg.

[dipren443]

The WRX wagon is pretty small. Roughly the same as a Mazda-3.

I would recommend a subaru Outback. Stay away from 97-99's though. The newer ones are nice. If you don't need the ground clearance of the Outback, the Legacy GT wagon is a bit lower, a bit more firmly suspended and is more often available with a manual trans. I had an Outback for ~8yrs. Loved it.

Just an FYI. If you are set on the newer style Legacy GT Wagon with the 2.5L Turbo, and must have a manual... They were only available for one year (2005). The LGT wagon continued for two more years, but with automatic only. Legacy Outback wagons had the manual option with the turbo for a much longer timeframe.

[ITLBTU]

Wow, no suggestions for an AWD SS Trailbazer? I know they don't make them anymore, but there are some out there, and I don't think you will be dissapointed. We love our 2wd version, and our friends love their AWD version. I'm pretty sure they were made from '06-'09.

[go-fish]

FWIW, the Jetta TDI wagons can be had for well under $30k. We bought our '10 for about $27 loaded.

Outside of CA you can get the TDI Sportwagen for even cheaper than that.

....but its a really really nicely built car, and it's tough to beat 40+ mpg.

How about 48-52? I think the new TDI's get around 42 on avg. With my older fuel system in the '01 Jetta sedan I can still get up to 52 with fresh oil/filter/fuel filter and good tire pressure. around 210K on the counter too! Once you go TDI you never want to go back.

Back on topic though, when I saw this thread yesterday it made me think of the Trailblazer SS. Looked them up on Autotrader and was pleasantly surprised by the price of used ones. Much better than the Cherokee SRT8's.

[Lowend]

Why the 04-07? I'm finding alot of 02-03's for good prices.. is there anything wrong with the pre 04 models?

Nothing really wrong with the 02-03's (known as "bug eyes" )
The 2002 5-Speed is known for being weak, but I had one for about 2 years and never had an issue. If you start side-stepping the clutch at 5000 RPM than... well...
2003 has a better transmission.
<-- that's actually my old car, someone stole the photo and used it on their blog

In 2004 they stiffened up the chassis a bit, and the headlights got prettier and the fog lamps shrunk. There were some minor suspension changes, but nothing that effects performance

In 2006 they went to the "Pig Nose" But the car is essentially the same as 2004-5

2007 got a better center console

[iadr]

Well, I'm contemplating a Suzuki Sidekick with some suspension work, powered by a Mercruiser 4 (half a Ford 429/460) with a Boss 429 head, driving through a WC T5 mated to an AMC Eagle full time transfer case. Suzuki Samurai front gears, Explorer 8.8 swap in the back.
Biggest problem is getting it to sit a little lower without looking stupid or going to undersize tires (tough to get gearing any taller than 3.73).
Gott all the parts, except the Boss 429 head, which will cost more than everything else I've bought.

[BA.]

Oh, 1 more thing about the wrx's is that there is not a lot of sound deadening material in the car, so I find that a lot of road noise comes through the car. It doesn't bother me personally as a commuter car, but it's kind of aggravating to have to a conversation over road noise. When you test drive see if it bothers you (heavily dependent on tire choice though). As a family car a legacy wagon is quieter.

Again, it's a great car, I'm just focusing on the weak points so you're well informed. Even with the flat 4, spark plug changes are an easy DIY job. The wagons even have a tow rating!

+1 on the accessport

Just saw the thread, guess I really don't need to mention the Subby wagons or SS Trailblazer.

X2 on the lack of sound deadening on some models. My friends WRX STi was a bit noisy and seats that were too hard for me to have one as a daily driver.

A very fun, snow capable, great cornering car otherwise though!

[JayR]

That is exactly what I was thinking. It of course blows the budget all to hell but there is no nastier wagon than that! So cool! If only more Americans appreciated wagons, we would have the RS6, The AMG E Class and a BMW M5!

[PT Sportwagon]

I would avoid the Subbie unless you have the $$$ to replace the tires should one get blown out. With AWD especially the Subbie if the tires are more than 2/32 differance you will need to replace all of them or screw up the drive line.

I like the Caddy wagon. but then I am a wagon person. My DD is a 04 Yukon Denali XL 6.0 AWD, luxury, stablity and best of all full frame. Would turn most little cars back into pop cans.

Tim

[1969CamaroRS]

I would avoid the Subbie unless you have the $$$ to replace the tires should one get blown out. With AWD especially the Subbie if the tires are more than 2/32 differance you will need to replace all of them or screw up the drive line.

Hogwash. 2/32 difference will not screw up the AWD system. Putting a different circumference tire on the car could.

It would take at least 1/4-1/2 difference, this is from the dealer. That's a new tire to bald minimum given the same make/brand/size.

[dipren443]

Hogwash. 2/32 difference will not screw up the AWD system. Putting a different circumference tire on the car could.

It would take at least 1/4-1/2 difference, this is from the dealer. That's a new tire to bald minimum given the same make/brand/size.

My subie has been SOOOO solid. 90K miles and all I have done is regular maintenance. A set of belts, brakes, and fluid changes.

ROCK solid.