Need Some Front End Help

[AintQik]

67 Camaro, stock subframe, Global upper and lowers, coil overs, Global West 2" drop spindal, Wilwood dyna brakes.

I'm going to try and get some pics but the car is almost 2 hours away right now.

I'm having fitment issues. I verified the wheels were right with Frank at Prodigy. When turning both wheels will hit the rear of the fenders.

After staring at it for hours, it looks like the wheel is set too far back in the wheel well. Maybe an inch or more.

Before I built the car I went over the subframe and there was no signs of damage. This was confirmed by my body guy and during assembly. Everything lined up right no isses. No changes to the factory mount points of the control arms.

Global West control arms, I verified I installed them right, been doing this 15 years, but you never know. Had a shop take a look and verified the front end is in fact installed correctly and all looks well. He has been buillding 1st gens since 86. Verified they were the "correct" p/n for the car.

Global West drop spindals. No part number but they fit so I had assumed they were right. Came in the "correct" box for the car directly from Global with the other stuff.

Wilwood Dyna brakes. No issue other than slightly widening the track by 1/8th. Made up for in the wheel selection and construction. 4.75bs. 18x8.

I talked to Global and they don't know why it does not fit. The shop that fit my fenders said they had a 69 in one time with Global parts and it was the same way. To fix it they changed spindals, moved and offset tie rods and re-hooped wheels. Owner's preference, shop did not want to band aid fix. Of course Global wants pictures and I don't blame them and measurements which I am providing, but I can see from other cars in the shop the axle is about an inch too far back. I'm at a loss.

I don't have enough money (military) to just scrap the front end and start over. All this stuff is brand new and I'm not knocking Global just trying to figure out the best and cheapest way to a solution. I've come so far on this thing I've got no worries I can fix it but if I have to spend a ton of money it is going to hurt bad. I'm pretty bummed but its hot rodding. Any suggestions you guys can give, or experience would really help. Local Camaro guy who has been doing restoration and speed shop stuff for 30+ years is stumped as well. Before I go throwing money at it, I was hoping somebody had some better idea.



Body guy called and said if the wheel was centered in the wheel well it would clear everything . Well, now how do I go about that? lol

[John Wright]

How much caster do you have in the alignment?

[LS1NOVA]

Suspension alignment done with full weight on the front? Caster too high?

[Gitter Dun]

I also have a stock subframe on my '69 and am running 17x9.5 with 275/40's up front, 5.5" back space. My tire diameter is 25.6 and I had to roll the fender lip and cut out the rear and front portion of my wheel wells to be able to fit them. Are you hitting fender or wheel well?

[AintQik]

Caster around 5* Alignment guy says, "no way". No matter what he does its not going to work.
Hitting the fender
Tire is a 245 (45 it think) 18 4.75" BS. Prodigy says this combo "should" work and he has done it on a ton of cars.
Almost full weight, I was holding off until it was done but when I saw there was no way it was going to work I threw an alignment at it to see if it got any closer. Not much.

[AintQik]

Couple of side shots I found. Wheel looks too far back no?

[John Wright]

It really looks like a castor deal...not sure about 1st gens, but with 2nd gens the closer you get to 5° or more, the more it has a tendancy to rub the rear of the innerliner just like that.....imagine if you will the top ball joint being leaned way back towards the firewall, it is going to get the tire closer and closer...

Now I think there are some lower control arms that may help move the tire forward to help center it and still keep the caster.

[AintQik]

The alignment guy said this:

"It is a caster issue but there is no room for any more it would have to be neg caster and never steer right, the rt rear stud for caster shims has been cut off for the headers and you cant put in any more shims if you could you would need about 1 inch of shims. I think the upper control arms are wrong and already have too much caster in them."

So, I dunno.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

I'm a million miles a way, and far from an expert, but assuming your clip is installed correctly and square then it can only be a damaged clip in which case you could test this by re-installing your front suspension on another clip, or it's a control arm/spindle issue in which case GW should help you through it.

Keep us posted. There's gotta be a simple cause. The solution might not be so simple....

[ProdigyCustoms]

Your tires are SUPPOSED to be 245/40/18 not 245/45/18. Need to verify this. They look like 40s, not 45s

It does have to much caster. You may be able to wiggle the entire subframe forward . There are 5/8" alighnment holes under the firewall. Make sure the frame is not jammed back to far.

If you could wiggle the front subframe forward it would help with the problem.

Hotchkis makes their control arms geomtery corrected so that when you add caster, and move the upper ball joint back, the lower ball joint is moved forward so the wheel stays more centered while adding caster.

[AintQik]

The tires are probably 40s my head hurts.

The subframe can't come forward anymore and the bushings are aluminum, stock height body mounts just for the record.

These are Global West which I assume are the same? Nothing has been hit and I had stock suspension on this car and subframe with no issues. Well the tires were not 18s but you get the point. Keep em coming guys I appreciate the help and I'm trying everything you throw at me.

Like the alignment guy said to get it to clear I would have to have over an inch of spacer behind the arm. That can't be right.

[MrQuick]

weren't you having issues with the sway bar not fitting right?

Before the advent of built in caster control arms we moved the sub frame forward 1 1/2"

I thought the GW arms moved the bottom of the spindle forward? Lets see these arms.

Vince

[AintQik]

Yes, that was due to the mounting plate being welded in wrong, which led me to immediately suspect the control arms being goofed up after I confirmed my wheel specs. Maybe it slipped in the jig? Do they even use a jig? I dunno. Global has been very cool and its hard to help without touching the car and I'm sure dingbats from all over the world screw stuff up and blame them. I'd actually love this to be an error on my part. But, I've been doing this a bit and so far I can't find a simple solution.

I know we keep talking about the subframe but I can assure you its in the right spot and not damaged. If I move it, it will jack up the body lines and definetly not be where it was when I took it apart. So, I would be messin round with a known good to make some suspension parts fit and work. That doesn't jive in my head but I am keeping an open mind and seriously listening to all the suggestions.

I know these pics stink, but its all I have at the moment. I pray somebody says, "hey idiot the arm is on back wards". Lol.

[MrQuick]

Hey RJ, did you buy them arms from GW or Ebay. There are a bunch of over seas copies out there and I hope you didn't get taken. That lower are looks hinky.

Can you get me a close up of that upper arm cross shaft?
Vince

[AintQik]

I bought them direct from Global West, not even a middle man. I can try to get some better pics up but the car is not near me at the moment. It should be home next week. I bought the whole front end as a package so I wouldn't run into any issues LOL!!!!!

[CamaroAJ]

my '67 did the same thing. i had DSE control arms. my sub frame was as far forward as i could get it and hit in the same place yours does. IIRC i had 6* camber in it to help but it would still hit. i sold the car before i got it fixed though.

[AintQik]

BAH! So close! Well, we are getting somewhere I guess.

Did I buy your car?

Do you know who bought it? I'd be curious to know what he did.

[John Wright]

my '67 did the same thing. i had DSE control arms. my sub frame was as far forward as i could get it and hit in the same place yours does. IIRC i had 6* caster in it to help but it would still hit. i sold the car before i got it fixed though.

Fixed it for ya.....LOL

[MrQuick]

my '67 did the same thing. i had DSE control arms. my sub frame was as far forward as i could get it and hit in the same place yours does. IIRC i had 6* camber in it to help but it would still hit. i sold the car before i got it fixed though.

which way...i can picture it... lol

[John Wright]

Now ^^^^that^^^^has some camber issues