ATS Spindle Thread Split

[baz67]

Thanks dennis, I made a big mistake and ASSumed he was talking f body. I see that his user name plainly states chevelle.

For BS, when I get home or if Shane stops by my house we will mock up my 17x8.5 with 5.375 BS the check the fitment. That would be as deep as one would want to go. Too deep I fear and I think I may need to use a spacer. I will let you all know.

[protour_chevelle]

Sure starting to add up for us C4 guys which is a major bummer. To run this spindle I would need the new mounts for the C4 calipers, new C5 rotors(4, because the rest wouldn't match then) and then it would be a guessing game if my 16's will clear. They clear really nice right now but by the sounds of it, its gonna be tight.

-Matt

[dennis68]

Hey Matt, I have a system that will clear your 16" wheels, provide you better brakes AND vastly improve your geometry.

1K and a bunch of GN parts. C'mon, I need a guinea pig.

[protour_chevelle]

Oh I'll be a guinea pig alright. PM me the info.

Now, I have no clue if your being sarcastic or not. How many bones am I going to need to spend?

-Matt

[TitoJones]

Alright, you guys have flooded my PM box, some asking for pre-orders, others asking for pics.

Here is an SED spindle, that we intended to re-make, after Stielow gave the 'thumbs up' on a reproduction:



While it worked well at improving geometry, it used a weld on steer arm that made bumpsteer less than optimal. Stielow recommended a 1.5" drop of this arm for better results.
There were lots of you wanting this spindle, but my gut feeling said 'lawsuit' if any of our TIG welds ever failed. We looked at re making this much like the spindles on II Much, out of a solid block of metal.

Shane suggested we look into forged aluminum, and we got a few quotes for the tooling required to make a spindle.
At this point, if we have to re-design the spindle to make a raw forging, we thought why not see wht else we can tweak out of a scratch built spindle design. Right away we decided on a C5/C6 Corvette bearing pack as they are still in production and cheaper to buy from Timken than the C4 units. We also wanted to get the steer arm just right so we made it adjustable in height.

At this point we had the first design of the AFX spindle:


We could change track width, change steering arm locations, and ackerman all with different machined spacers. Once we found a setting we liked, we made a 3D model of the spindle. At this point we had a rapid prototype made to do final testing on the vehicle. It turned out sweet, but I can only show you this:


That is enough teasing for one day. Who knows, I may only leave up the small spy shot for a few hours.

Shane is going to kill me

Tyler

[Steve68]

Tyler, with all the interest, All the "I want a set" how long will it take to get a set, how many will the forger be able to produce in a run? just checking before I get on the band wagon, I'd hate to put my order in around June and then ATS tell me " where out and the next batch will be done in August" let me know thanks Steve

[enthusiast]

Tyler,

That rapid prototype sounds neat. How did you find somebody that does that kind of stuff? I may need some work like that done in the future.
Thanks man!

[Rick Dorion]

What are the logistics in offering a C4 version for all of us running that setup? It's a big(ger) nut to buy new brakes/rims/tires to go with the C5 setup.

[TitoJones]

Tyler, with all the interest, All the "I want a set" how long will it take to get a set, how many will the forger be able to produce in a run? just checking before I get on the band wagon, I'd hate to put my order in around June and then ATS tell me " where out and the next batch will be done in August" let me know thanks Steve

As many as I ask for. We will be doing a 'small' initial run of 400 spindles (100 sets stock, 100 sets modified) but if the first 50 sell out in under a month, we step up production runs by 3 fold.

Tyler,

That rapid prototype sounds neat. How did you find somebody that does that kind of stuff? I may need some work like that done in the future.
Thanks man!

My Engineer Shane can answer those questions. We usually like to keep our vendors to ourselves but this is a rarely used source, so I'm sure he'll post up.

What are the logistics in offering a C4 version for all of us running that setup? It's a big(ger) nut to buy new brakes/rims/tires to go with the C5 setup.

Rick- I wish it was as simple as changing the machining of the raw forged part, but there are other factors. First would be rotor and hub offset, followed by the raw part having too much space for the C4 caliper abutment (basket) to just bolt up. Fear not, the owners of a C4 style caliper will have an adapter available to them.

Tyler

[Steve68]

Ty, whats the difference between stock and modified, is it the 7/8 drop?? or? I don't remember, I probably know, Steve

[Rick Dorion]

Tyler - you answered my prayers with the availability of an adapter. Now there's a legitimate migration path. Thanks.

[B Schein]

Tyler, Thing sure have changed alot since I talked to a month or two ago. Glad to see you guy decided on the forgings instead of making them from solid "billet" Blanks. This will pay off in the long run price wise compared to the cost of the machine time from solid. I never took very good records of my time when I made the spindles for II Much But I figure it was around 40 hours apiece. That time could be drastically cut if I had production level machinery and made some special tooling. But with your forgings I don’t think you will have more than one-hour machine time into them if that. I have set of cast stainless up rights for the JPIFS that I have yet to machine and I cant see why it would take any more that one hours machine time a piece to get these done.

Good luck I cant what to see them

Brian

[chevymike]

Hey Tyler, I see it keep being metioned that you need (or should) use C5 calipers and rotors. Are these the same at the LS1 F-bodies? I know the calipers are the same but what about the 12" rotors or does the C5 have a different offset? Let me know. Thanks.

[baz67]

Ty, whats the difference between stock and modified, is it the 7/8 drop?? or? I don't remember, I probably know, Steve

Steve the differance, if I understand you correctly, is the modified spindl is one inch taller than the stock spindle. That way if you have done the Guldstrand mod you can have the benifits of the C5 bearings and brake packages without messing up geometry. The one inch taller spindle messes with the geometry too much when you use it with the Guldstand mod.

[wickedmotorhead]

What baz is meaning to say is the tall spindle is actually 1.4" taller from lower ball joint mount to upper ball joint mount than the stock spindle.

Both spindles have a 7/8" drop (in other words the bearing pack is raised 7/8" to effectively lower your car)

Also as an example for those that do have the Gulstrand mod. It would be an aggressive mod for most and thats one of the reasons we are also doing a stock height spindle. As Brian said to get the added benefit of the C5 bearing pack, brake options, and lets not forget unsprung weight. So in other words, depending on what you want to do with the car we can get you the correct setup. We have tried every geometry that is on the market and know which product does what with both a stock and tall spindle. Let us know if you have any further questions. Thanks.

Shane

[chicane67]

OK....... questions........ goody.. . .

What color are they going to be??

To also further the "messing" comment, it doesnt quite mess up the geometry as it mearly increases the rate of change from a given point. The rate of change in some geometries, is and can be, more or less too aggressive......or not aggressive enough. What we have accomplished with two seperate spindles, is to cover both sides of the coin. On one side there is enough rate of change for something near stock (or a very spirited street car) to the other side being that of a full blown race geometry. In one product.

With two spindles, we cover all the options and have found our little sweet spots with each of them. We are giving you, the end customer, the ability to do what you want...... with what you have...... no matter what your modifications are to this point.

Brian basically meant to say that the rate of increase is pretty darn aggressive, in the consideration of certain components when used together.

[MoeBawlz]

looks awesome... I love rapid prototyping, but what kind did you use? is that an SLS? or is it a plastic prototype, SLA or FDM? although that doesnt look like FDM, but i could be wrong.

Ive noticed that with FDM which is what ive used a lot, there is non-uniform shrinkage that ive had to battle with. Im currently collecting data to try to figure out how much shrinkage goes on from X,Y, and Z exactally. And if you would be willing to share some critical data like hole sizes from the CAD model to the actual prototype that would be greatly appreciated.

sorry for the hijack...

Aside from that though, it looks great.. I cant wait to see more of it.

[baz67]

I guess I should not have said messing. I was thinking more in a street form and the taller spindle and Guldstand mod may be too aggressive for a street driven car. Once again that chicane67 guy explains what I want to say better than I do.

[wickedmotorhead]

That is indeed an SLS DuraformGF (glass filled) rapid prototype. If you go to quickparts.com they have a lot of information for material specs and tolerances for each of the different processes. You can also get an instant quote with an STL file for all the different operations. We made all the machine operations undersized so that we could machine it ourselves with better accuracy. And yes rapid prototyping rocks! I pulled this information from their site....

SLS Highlights:
Ideal for durable, functional parts with a variety of applications. Capable of producing snap fits and living hinges.
Maximum dimension for instant quote: 11”x13”x17”
SLS Material choices include Duraform, DuraformGF and Somos 201.
Standard Tolerances of +/- 0.005" for the first inch, and +/- 0.002" for each additional inch for Duraform and DuraformGF. For Somos 201, tolerances are +/- 0.04" for the first inch, and +/- 0.002" for each additional inch.
In the z height (vertical), standard tolerances of +/- 0.01" for the first inch, +/- 0.002” on every inch thereafter.
Standard Resolution: 0.004”

[makoshark]

Where do I sign up for a set of these things!? Is it first come first serve when they become available?