ATS Spindle Thread Split

[TitoJones]

Do the ATS spindles have an offset hub centerline similar to the vette spindles for increased caster?

Wow, you've been registered since Sept of '04 and have never felt the need to post until now?
My engineer Shane Wagner will be fielding that question.

Tyler

[nkopper]

Sounds like you guys at ATS have done some serious engineering on these uprights! The Stielow stamp of approval doesn't hurt either. Can't wait to get my hands on a set.

Nathan

[427v8]

Tyler,
What are the chances of your new spindle fitting on a '69 Corvette?

The Vette has absolutely zero support for suspension mods...

[CamaroAJ]

so if i already have my baer brakes on the car and wanted to upgrade when they come out is that going to be a problem?

[TitoJones]

The 69 vette question is a good one-
I have been asked if this will fit a handful of other vehicles.
My conditioned response is no, they will not fit what they weren't designed for.
However, there is enough material in the AFX Spindle to allow a ream of the ball joint tapers to possibly allow it to fit other applications such as a G body or Y body. I can't make any promises as to better handling, but don't let us stop you from trying to make it work for your custom application. We will not offer the machining of the ball joint taper, so this would be a project you would need to tackle yourselves.

As far as people already having a set of C4 PBR Baer brakes and upgrading to this spindle-
We are working with Baer to possibly offer a new abutment that will adapt the C5 caliper mount to the C4 PBR caliper. We don't want people to have to ditch their entire setups to change to our spindle, so we are trying to make every possible provision for our clients.

Tyler

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Hey Tyler,

I split this thread from the fatman thread and renamed it for ya.

[wickedmotorhead]

KQM,

Good question. I assume you are refering to mechanical trail that was designed into the C4 knuckles to induce more relative caster to the relatively low initial caster. The C5 ditched this and realigned the hub center to the SA and built in more caster to the geometry. Our design is based on the later technology and our caster with the stock UCA will be dialed in by a different method due to the universal use with aftermarket control arms. Hopefully this answers your question. Thanks for the inquiry.

Shane

[Mean 69]

It would be REALLY, REALLY nice if you guys forged these units with some extra beef for alternate KAI's, spindle heights, etc. Really nice. REALLY nice.

And by the way, I have seen the CAD drafts, and these units are about as nice as you can imagine. No clue what the FatMan dudes are doing, but it had better be spectacular if they hope to outdo this unit.

Did I say REALLY nice?
M

[protour_chevelle]

Will I be able to run my baer 12 inch brake kit on it? (2 piston calipers)

-Matt

[Blown353]

Tyler,

What balljoint tapers will be offered-- i.e. will us A-body guys currently running B-body spindles be offered a version that will bolt right in without balljoint changes?

Troy

[protour_chevelle]

Oh ya, on the topic of balljoints. Will the tall balljoint swap be of a benefit with these spindles?

-Matt

[dennis68]

I can field that one Matt. Based on the numbers presented so far, yes. The new uprights could still use a little more height so taller ball studs would be advantageous.

[baz67]

The problem with adding the taller BJs is that it may shorten the FVSA too much. It may also have adverse affects to the RCH.

[dennis68]

Not in the case of the A body. Shorten FVSA a little, sure. FRCH will still be in hell somewhere. I increased my design 4" to get FRCH above ground level. The tallest BJ stud Howe offers is only 1/2", enough to make a change but not enough to to make TOO much change. Of course ultimately it is up to the end user to verify all the numbers before deciding, ride height changes evrything.

I'm sure this is why Ty and Shane used the heights they did, to compromise all the applications it was designed to fit. Not too much on one and not too little on the other...somewhere in the middle.

[USAZR1]

If I could add these spindles without spending a lot of funds to adapt my Baer C4 calipers (Track kit),I'm very interested in a pair.

Do you have a ballpark figure for an introductory price?

[TitoJones]

I have been fielding a few questions in my PM inbox, that I thought I'd share here as well, but to answer those who responded:

protour_chevelle- We will either offer an adapter bracket to allow the use of C4 PBR stuff to our spindles, or Baer will have a new abutment (caliper basket) made so you can swap them over. We will keep the board updated as we get more into it.

Blown353- The ball joint tapers offered from us when purchased will match the stock configuration. I'm not too versed on the B body swap, but if I recall, the lower balljoint is the one that is changed correct? The tubular A arms that go with the swap still use a stock upper ball joint if I remember correctly. We can offer you a machining diagram to have the lower ball joint taper reamed out to a certain spec, or you can swap back to a stock lower ball joint.

protour_chevelle- (part2) As far as taller ball joint mods, I think the
A body guys can benefit from this as Dennis68 had stated, but the F/X body cars would not.

USAZR1- We hope to offer a lower cost bracket or adapter to allow the use of current brake systems, as I know a bunch of us here on PT.com have a set of Baer brakes on the car. You will have to change to rotor to a C5 unit for offset reasons, but I think we will be able to get a set of C4 PBR calipers to bolt up with minimal changes to the end user.
Cost wise, I don't want to put the cart before the horse as we haven't been quoted our price per part, but hope to offer them at under $550 a set.

Here is a PM I recieved last night that might clear up some confusion as well:

Hey Tyler, I know you're really busy so i'll make this question quick...

* also available in stock height for use with any geoemtry and control arm configuration. (This means you can use our 'stock' style spindle with the G mod, the DSE coil over mounts, and any tubular control arm, ie GW, DSE, ST, ect.)

Does this mean that the 7/8" lowered spindle is actually designed to work more with stock suspension parts, rather than aftermarket arms? Or would we still benefit the most from having aftermarket arms as well?

Also, I have already purchased a new Ididit column and Unisteer R&P for the front end. Do you see any issues I might run in to geometry-wise? Just figured i'd ask while I was at it.

Thanks for any help you might be able to give me.

You are getting the info confused a bit there Doug.
Both spindles have what is called a 'drop', that lowers the ride height of the car, regardless of springs. Ours drops your ride height by 7/8".

When we refer to the height of the spindle, we are talking about the upper to lower ball joint height. We have one that is stock in height, and one that is 1.4" taller.
The stock height spindle will not change the geometry of the suspension, so it is best suited for those who have already modified their front suspension with the guldstrand mod, the DSE coil over mounts, and/or any aftermarket control arm.

The modified height spindle (1.4" over stock) improves camber gain with minimal tire wear, and doesn't need any aftermarket control arms or upper A arm relocation to get equal results to those who have them.

Both spindles still have a 7/8" drop in ride height.

I don't see any adverse effects of using the unisteer rack and pinion with our spindles, but check the bumpsteer after installation to make sure it is dialed out as much as possible.

If anyone has any other questions, please feel free to respond here or PM me. This stuff can get confusing, so don't feel like you shouldn't ask if you need clarification on anything regarding these spindles.

Tyler

[parsonsj]

Dude! Well done ATS!

Sounds like you'll sell thousands of these. Good luck, and remember us little guys!

jp

[Fuelie Fan]

Is there a minimum wheel size?

What are the options for brakes? Stock? LS1 camaro? Or only corvette stuff?

[Marcus SC&C]

Tyler,what I meant about FatMan going after the less hardcore market it that theirs is a simple bolt on replacement that takes all stock brakes (even drums) and they`re fairly cheap. Just the C5/C6 hub/bearing assys. cost more than their spindles. I`m not knocking them,we`ve been using C5 (and now C6) knuckles and components in our products for several years now! It`s really nice stuff but it`s usually not cheap. The best things in life seldom are. Out of curiosity what camber and caster settings are you running on your test car? Is it spring lowered also? Marcus SC&C

[TitoJones]

Is there a minimum wheel size?

What are the options for brakes? Stock? LS1 camaro? Or only corvette stuff?

The brakes and wheel offset is more of the determining factor in wheel selection. If we can find a way to use a 12" rotor with a C4 PBR caliper, and the front wheel backspacing does not exceed 4-3/4", a 16" wheel would be the minimum. Any 16" wheel is going to ba a tight fit with this spindle, and I recommend a good set of 17's, and if you can swing it, 18" rims would be a great addition.

Brake wise-
No stock brakes will work with these spindles. All rotors must be for a C5 corvette (any diameter) and all brake calipers must be able to bolt to a C5 spindle.
Wilwood, Baer, SSBC, AP Racing, Alcon, Brembo, GM, Stoptech, and a load of others make a brake kit that will fit this spindle.

Tyler