watts link

[CamaroAJ]

where is a good sorce for a watts link set up? i was able to find this one http://www.suicidedoors.com/4-link-k...-universal-kit but i know there has to be others out there. is there a better one than the one i posted or are they all about the same?

[jknight16]

Fays2 builds a very nice Watt's link setup. I just completed the install on my car and am in the tuning and minor refinement phase. It's a really nicely built setup with quality hardware and components. Mark at SC&C can set you up with a kit.

If you're a good fabricator and understand suspension engineering, the kit in the link you posted might be pretty good. For me, the added cost of the Fays2 kit is more than worth it for the time and potential mistakes it saves me.

[CamaroAJ]

link to it?

[jknight16]

http://www.scandc.com/wattslink.htm

http://www.fays2.net/

[CamaroAJ]

cool, thanks.

[ZZ427]

Let me know how this goes , I am also
contemplating on this set - up .

[The WidowMaker]

stick to a chassis mounted watts like the fays. the first link appears to be a diff mounted watts, and not only do they add unsprung weight, but you cant alter the RRCH.

i got all my parts from fays. great guy to work with. or just call mark and get the whole kit.

[JRouche]

For a ready made watts link I like the Fays. And Jim is a great guy to talk with. Give him a call and he may be able to answer some questions.

I kinda built up my own using his center pivot. His center pivot is a really nice piece so I imaging the complete system is well made. JR

Here is mine, the build. https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=55420

[CamaroAJ]

i planed on building my own but was unsure about the pivot link. i wanted something that didn't look cheep or flex on me too much. i'm glad you can buy it without the kit, this saves me alot of money having the local machine shop mill me out what i wanted from aluminum.

[Twentyover]

stick to a chassis mounted watts like the fays. the first link appears to be a diff mounted watts, and not only do they add unsprung weight, but you cant alter the RRCH.

I think there's more to it than that. A chassis mounted watts maintains the same relationship between roll center and CG as the suspension articulates.

If the watts is axle mouted, it seems that the change in relationship betwen cg and RCH would kind of cause the rear to 'wag' around a bit , as the roll angle is a function of distance between the two points.

Am I all wet here?

[CamaroAJ]

it would also be sprung weight so that is a plus.

[wendell]

stick to a chassis mounted watts like the fays. the first link appears to be a diff mounted watts, and not only do they add unsprung weight, but you cant alter the RRCH.

i got all my parts from fays. great guy to work with. or just call mark and get the whole kit.

The RRC can be altered in the same maner as a chassis mounted pivot. I would make the range from axel center line to 3" bellow. Also, when executed correctly, the undsprung weight of a diff mounted pivot islighter than the diff brackets needed for a chassis mounted pivot.

Considering the tom foolery going on with most of the rear suspensions being marketed to the "pro-tourers" I wouldn't worry about the roll center migration. If you want a cool watts link, let packaging primarily dictate your design.

[CamaroAJ]

i would like something that works rather than something that looks good. i think i am going to base my design off the LD 3 link.

[wendell]

i would like something that works rather than something that looks good. i think i am going to base my design off the LD 3 link.

What rear suspension are you pairing this with?

[CamaroAJ]

3-link

[The WidowMaker]

I think there's more to it than that. A chassis mounted watts maintains the same relationship between roll center and CG as the suspension articulates.

you are correct, theres a lot more to it than that. its where i would normally enter my "call mark when you have an hour available" plug, but i missed it.

The RRC can be altered in the same maner as a chassis mounted pivot.

on most of the diff mounted i have seen you are correct, but i was referring to the one in the pic above. it appears to have a solid mount.

Also, when executed correctly, the undsprung weight of a diff mounted pivot islighter than the diff brackets needed for a chassis mounted pivot.

im not sure how i see that as being possible. if youre using a 9" and solid mounting the pivot then maybe. but by the time you add the adjustment plate, reinforcement and the bell crank, it would out weigh my 1.5" dom tubing used for my axle mounts. if youre running a 12 bolt, there really is no way since you have to build a cradle that ties in both sides.

[Twentyover]

on most of the diff mounted i have seen you are correct, but i was referring to the one in the pic above. it appears to have a solid mount.

If you're refering to the pictures in post 8, there is adjustment of the propeller elevation (see 1st and 2nd image) It also appears to be a chassis mounted watts

[The WidowMaker]

no, post 1. jrouche (post 8) used the same parts i did, and we both fabbed up a chassis mounted watts.

this is the one i was referring to

[JRouche]

Considering the tom foolery going on with most of the rear suspensions being marketed to the "pro-tourers" I wouldn't worry about the roll center migration. If you want a cool watts link, let packaging primarily dictate your design.

Hey, My name isnt Tom, its John LOL No yer right. There are so many companies out there shoving too many products in our faces that its difficult for the average Joe, (or John) to decide what he needs.

I put in the watts link for the sole purpose of packaging. My car is pretty tight for space at the rear due to the fuel cell that a watts link was the only option for me. I really wanted to keep it simple and use a pan hard bar. But the space was not there.

And as far as a diff or frame mounted pivot point is concerned. Well, I cant say which is better. Because packaging again comes into play. And every car has its own packaging issues.

And for performance. Well, the changing RRC height with suspension travel is something to consider with a rear end mounted pivot. But to be honest, for a street car it may not cause much of an issue.

There are many guys that dont even have to consider that issue. I for one dont. Im not at that level of tuning. But it is a consideration. I think many guys have other areas of the suspension that could use some help with the basics so changing RRC heights are overshadowed. Not to say whittling down on all the details of the suspension is a worthless endeavor. Whittle a lil here and there and before you know it you have cured some issues a lil at a time.

And the unsprung weight issue. Again it may not matter. But if it does the axle clamps I used are prolly lighter than some of the cages I have seen that are used to make a stout axle housing connection point. But to be honest. Some other areas of unsprung weight like heavy brakes, heavy wheels, heavy tires and a heavy axle housing will accumulate to more unsprung weight than an axle mounted watts pivot point will. But for a guy that is looking at ALL the unsprung weight then that might be something to look at. But for the most part I dont think it matters much for the watts link brackets. Compared to all the other heavy items on the axle housing.

IMO the center pivot mounting needs to be so strong that you wont worry if a tow truck hooks up to it and pulls your car sideways. It needs to be that stout. And to make an axle housing mount that stout for many rear ends the cage is gonna be as heavy, more than likely heavier than the axle clamps I used. Oh, and yes, I wouldnt hesitate letting a tow truck hook up to my center pivot and drag the car sideways. Its that strong.

And as far as looks or whatever. CamaroAJ (Umm, the original poster) talked about that. I agree. It should perform first. The looks dont matter IMO. What matters is the job the part is supposed to do. Yer right on there AJ. The function comes WAY before the form. I think the form (the looks) are the last on the books. Function is all that matters for cars that are meant to be driven. Im with you on that one...... JR

[ITLBTU]

Here's a thought... Will an aluminum cover with an adjustable bracket welded on it be strong enough to support the center pivot? That would definately have a lighter unprung weight. The con to doing that is then you would need more weight in bracing two outside brackets that would be adjustable. On a full tube frame race car that's not a problem, but on a street car it may be a different story...