Can I use the ride tech shockwaves without the rest of the system?

[NASTY GN]

Will the shockwaves function correctly if i fill them to my desired hight without an air source?

[JRouche]

I think yes. But how you fill them IS your air source. Whether its from an on board air tank and air valves or a few Schrader valves that you manually fill them up with. Its not really a closed system, no mater how well you seal the plumbing up you will want a means for "topping" the system up from time to time. And the time variable is REALLY specific to how well you seal the system up, not so much on how the air springs seal, they seal great.

My front springs will hold 73psi for months. My rear plumbing isnt as good (Im still gonna work on that). I get a great seal from my passengers side. My drivers side still bleeds down, about 2psi per day.

If I were to use them without the controller and on board tank I would use four separate air lines. One for each spring. So you dont get air pressure pushing from one side to the other if you decided to link lets say the fronts together.

It would be an easy system. Two Schrader valves on the front, and two at the back connected to the springs with proper hoses.

Now to the main reason. Why? The major cost in the system IS the springs. The controller is less than the cost of one shockwave, or close to it.

But you should be able to get just as much performance from the shockwaves that anyone with a controller has if you didnt have a controller. After all, they have ONE ride height. Pressurize them up to that ride height and you are good to go.

But for the money, Id go with some nice coilovers if you are gonna ditch the controller JR

[elitecustombody]

why spend $600+ per pair of Shockwaves and not spend few hundred bucks for at the least a compressor?

[NASTY GN]

The ridetech airpods are about $2k if I'm not mistaken.

[elitecustombody]

there are plenty of other options if you're on a budget

[bret]

The airpod I'd the easiest solution, but also the most expensive. We have 4way compressor kits starting at around $1000 complete. If you don't have an on board compressor system you really sacrifice the biggest advantage of the air suspension...the adjustability. Take a look around on the compressor section of our website...lots of good tech info there.

[JRouche]

If you don't have an on board compressor system you really sacrifice the biggest advantage of the air suspension...the adjustability.

Easy there Bret. You are short changing the shockwaves as a unit. Id put the shockwaves ahead of the advantage of adjustability.

The shockwaves are some really nice spring/shock units. And as far as adjustability, its such a small amount, if we are talking about ride height, the envelope is narrow. And as far as adjustability goes Im thinking of driving adjustability. Not the ability to drop it in the weeds for a car show or whatever.

And I think more folks need to remove the "extra" benny of being able to drop it on the stops as far as air springs go and look at the performance aspect more, not the show aspect. Thats the stigma that air springs have, people think of them more as show type suspension items and over look the performance issue.

But IMO air springs are the way of the future for performance cars. And Im talking about street cars, Im not even going to get into the race car issues.

But with added advancements looked into on how the air springs can be improved like what your company is doing they will continue to improve and I honestly think air springs are the path that many auto manufactures will look into.

Its all about the "active" part of the air spring. Yeah, not so much right now but the potential is there, just needs to be worked on. And the incorporation of the shock in the spring makes it a perfect component.

What I see in the future is a completely active suspension, with air springs included. Old fashion steel coil springs are so old and been used for many years, they have tried to get ALL they can from them. The engineering is done with steel springs. Time for a new spring, air springs.

In the distant future I see computer controlled electromagnetic shocks and multi-compartment air springs. Not just one compartment, but two, three or more. So you say packaging is a problem. Not really. With the advancements in rubber technology air bladders can be made thinner and just as durable. So with multi-compartment air springs and the associated controls (read computer control) and improved valving I think air springs are the way of the future.

One of the problems I see with air springs for an active on the fly type suspension (where a computer controls the spring during active driving conditions) is its a loss system. When you remove air from the spring its bled off to the atmosphere. Then when you need to add air its fed by a reservoir. Pretty slow system and its a loss system. Not efficient.

An active air spring system needs to be able to react VERY quickly to the changing conditions. Its hard to move air that fast, it just doesn't. Even with an immediate valve, and large orifices. As the car moves through the turns the air flow just cant keep up. But I really dont think thats something that we cant overcome. Maybe by using a three bladder air spring is a step. Easier to control a small pocket of air VS one large pocket for fast transitions.

I dont know. Im obliviously not an engineer. But I really think there is ALOT of room to play with the engineering side of air springs VS steel springs. Its the way of the future. JR

[tazzz25906112]

I believe you have raised some very interesting points JR and a multi chambered bag that may consider the use of a valved & pressurized gas return system may expedite the process..... I went with Ride Tech's air ride system on my WarPath build and look forward to seeing the performance numbers that come off that ride this year.....

[AccuAir]

But you should be able to get just as much performance from the shockwaves that anyone with a controller has if you didnt have a controller. After all, they have ONE ride height. Pressurize them up to that ride height and you are good to go.

JR

There are a couple flaws in this theory...

1. The air inside the air springs heats up during normal operation which causes expansion which intern raises the vehicle (in normal operating conditions this amount may only be 1/2"). During "extreme" driving conditions it can be significantly more, (this is because Air Springs operate as an adiabatic "or sealed heat system" during dynamic operation). If you are running an "aggressive" alignment, 1/2" or more in ride height will create noticeable degradation in steering feel and response. This is where a semi-active electronic leveling system provides massively noticeable results.
2. We have gotten our systems to seal pretty amazingly these days, but what you refer to as "topping the system off from time to time" is an understatement for typical air suspension use. Even if air leakage could be brought to 0.000%, the height of the vehicle is still going to vary from day to day based on ambient temperature, (unless you live on the beach in CA like we do =) Again, this is where a leveling system is necessary.

I know a lot of guys that have started with Schrader valves to get up and going. But when their budget allows, they all eventually come knocking for an onboard management system to get the true benefits out of their air suspension system. I appreciate that you have found satisfaction with your system setup at a basic level, but I just wouldn't want a newcomer to air suspension to read this thread and expect to be happy with the results of air suspension system setup like yours.

[JRouche]

There are a couple flaws in this theory...

1. The air inside the air springs heats up during normal operation which causes expansion which intern raises the vehicle (in normal operating conditions this amount may only be 1/2"). During "extreme" driving conditions it can be significantly more, (this is because Air Springs operate as an adiabatic "or sealed heat system" during dynamic operation). If you are running an "aggressive" alignment, 1/2" or more in ride height will create noticeable degradation in steering feel and response. This is where a semi-active electronic leveling system provides massively noticeable results.
2. We have gotten our systems to seal pretty amazingly these days, but what you refer to as "topping the system off from time to time" is an understatement for typical air suspension use. Even if air leakage could be brought to 0.000%, the height of the vehicle is still going to vary from day to day based on ambient temperature, (unless you live on the beach in CA like we do =) Again, this is where a leveling system is necessary.

I know a lot of guys that have started with Schrader valves to get up and going. But when their budget allows, they all eventually come knocking for an onboard management system to get the true benefits out of their air suspension system. I appreciate that you have found satisfaction with your system setup at a basic level, but I just wouldn't want a newcomer to air suspension to read this thread and expect to be happy with the results of air suspension system setup like yours.

Yeah yer right. I might have mis-spoke. A sealed system is gonna have problems. And still there are OEM sealed air spring systems that seem to work. I have a Toy Sequoia that has rear air springs. They are sealed but there is a provision to add air when towing. But its not an active system.

But on my car a sealed system would not work. Beside all the issues you talked about even simple things, like a full tank of fuel will set my rear down by an inch or more. Or even a passenger in the one extra seat I have will force me to add air. If I had a four seater and added the 350+ pounds of meat in the back I would have to add air. Thats where the hand held controller helps me.

Ideally, if I had the money the level sensing system would be the best. But as it was I was maxed out in my budget, just changing the springs from coilovers to air springs was killing me with the cost.

But yes. Id LOVE to have a level sensing system, just not in the budget. And when I made my reply I was kinda thinking the OP was on a slim budget also. So I gave my thoughts based on that.

Kinda the way I approach most of my builds on my one and only project. Do what you can afford, and hope for the best.

And this is not to be focused on you, just my ramblings. I enjoy reading all the shop builds of folks cars, guys that have the cash to have a shop build the car for them. And I enjoy watching the shows on the boob tube where a shop builds up a car.

But for the simple guy, which I am, its kinda overkill. Most guys, and Im happy to say most, cant afford ALL the top notch products available. The "real" folks out there have rent, mortgages, children, or are single on a slim income. The TV shows with ALL the comped products makes for nice TV show watching and dreaming. But thats NOT what middle America is made of. Most car guys cant afford all the stuff that they show on TV or in the magazines. Its a reality. There are those that can. And usually those are the great car profiles you see on these forums.

But I REALLY love to see the real down to earth folks that are on a slim budget (myself) post their cars. For ME, those are the real folks, not the 50,000 to 100,000 dollar cars that are showcased. Those are nice, but not a good representation of the American Hot rodder, Pro-touring, Drag-racer or show car guy.

Im simple folk, and I tend to relate more so with the 16 or 22 year old guy on a working budget, or the 30 something with kids and wife, or the 45-60yo thats thinking about his retirement money and not so much the car money as a priority. But they ALL still love the cars. So a lil change here and there for adding some improvements to the project car is a BIG investment for them, and me.

So YUP, I still love to come here and hear the pros like yourself give advice. Its good advice. And prolly just like many others that are prolly more "lurkers" and gather info. We love ALL the free info the pros give. I should be more of a leach and quiet down some and just leach and listen LOL JR

[2blownstangs]

AccuAir FTW