Aerodynamics working WITH the Car?

[Randy67]

You mean huge wings like this A-mod?
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0001_large.jpg

Much like the sprint cars, the A-mods are going for max downforce at moderate speeds. So much downforce that their top speed is quite limited, but they get there very fast. Not very practical (or attractive) spoilers/wings for pro-touring cars.



If you use a factory spoiler, then extra bracing beyond factory probably isn't needed, but couldn't hurt either. I bet pedestal type spoilers require more bracing than duck tail styles do with the force being directed into the two legs.

[tyoneal]

You mean huge wings like this A-mod?
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0001_large.jpg

Much like the sprint cars, the A-mods are going for max downforce at moderate speeds. So much downforce that their top speed is quite limited, but they get there very fast. Not very practical (or attractive) spoilers/wings for pro-touring cars.

If you use a factory spoiler, then extra bracing beyond factory probably isn't needed, but couldn't hurt either. I bet pedestal type spoilers require more bracing than duck tail styles do with the force being directed into the two legs.

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Thanks for writing.

That was a very interestng picture.

I agree, not to great for a Pro-Touring car.

I appreciate your thoughts, and your perspective.

I'll think about this and see about adding something to this post.

Thanks again,

Ty

[Ash]

Not to pimp my own thread, but if whole car aerodynamics is what your curious about, check out https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=61936. Spoilers can only go so far. Under-trays, Diffusers, Splitters, Vortex Genrators, and Canards is what I've been interested in for some time. I'm going to order "Race Car aerodynamics" by Robert bentley, as some have suggested it as a good read.

[tyoneal]

Ash:

Thanks for the tip.

I will grab a copy myself.

I think the underside of the car is a very underdeveloped part of this hobby.

I've got several projects, one being a F-Body, that I have been coolecting information about. I know some of my questions are somewhat scattered, but since I am looking at a couple different applications, nothing seems to be done the same way. I washopeing for the simularities between them.

The theories are consistant, it's the methods of implimentation that is different.

I love thi subject matter.

Thanks,

Ty

[tyoneal]

Not to pimp my own thread, but if whole car aerodynamics is what your curious about, check out https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=61936. Spoilers can only go so far. Under-trays, Diffusers, Splitters, Vortex Genrators, and Canards is what I've been interested in for some time. I'm going to order "Race Car aerodynamics" by Robert bentley, as some have suggested it as a good read.

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Ash:

I don't see, "Race Car aerodynamics", by Bentley on Amazon. The only author I see is Katz.

I have his book, I think it is very good. Where did you find yours?

Ty

[Ash]

Ohh sorry, operator error on the copy and pasting. Katz is the author. "Bentley" is the publisher

I hear you though, very interesting stuff. That's gonna be a big part of my 81 Monte Carlo project. I'm gonna take my time and collect data with wool tuft and high/low pressure zone testing. Sure, it will be a street car, but I'll have gotten my feet wet in a cool subject. Custom front/rear facias, rear difuser, etc.

[tyoneal]

Ohh sorry, operator error on the copy and pasting. Katz is the author. "Bentley" is the publisher

I hear you though, very interesting stuff. That's gonna be a big part of my 81 Monte Carlo project. I'm gonna take my time and collect data with wool tuft and high/low pressure zone testing. Sure, it will be a street car, but I'll have gotten my feet wet in a cool subject. Custom front/rear facias, rear difuser, etc.

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It's worth the work just to have fun doing it, and learning from it.

[Roadrage David]

Ok here are my 2 cents had the Origenal spoilers upto 190mph!!. i heard a snaping noise at 170mph. at the 190 mark the cars was as straight as a arrow douwnforce was perfect. the highway road wasend super straight but had some longer waves in them getting up and douwn spring travel at that speed.
afther that whe checkt the car and spoiler and the left conecting rod was loose and atachst to a piece of spoiler . when my frind took it of all the bold holles where showing cracks in them as wel(we where lucky). he took it home and made a aluminium frame in the spoiler and gluwed it in(picture included) and wil be atchst to the frond bumper as wel, its now up to the task at higher speeds then we took it. so far so i did not feld that a ""bigger"" spoiler frond ore rear would ad to a improvemend on my cars handling...

[79PonchoUK]

Not to pimp my own thread, but if whole car aerodynamics is what your curious about, check out https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=61936. Spoilers can only go so far. Under-trays, Diffusers, Splitters, Vortex Genrators, and Canards is what I've been interested in for some time. I'm going to order "Race Car aerodynamics" by Robert bentley, as some have suggested it as a good read.

Extremely valid point.

The rear diffuser is a hugely important part of an aero package (and that's what it should be...a package)

You don't just have to look at formula 1 to see the gains that can be made here. From what I understand, canards and vortex generators are somewhat less of a game changer...though the japanese car owners seem to love them because they can be stuck on with double sided tape, and that's cool. j/k

Our cars tend to have relatively good undersides in some respect and relatively big downsides in others.

There's a lot of crap under F-body and similar cars. The big front subframes hanging down, the mufflers and the live rear are all mounds of turbulent brick. lol. The undersides are very bumpy and drag-unfriendly.
But the back 3 feet of the car is pretty good. Modern cars seem to have very low rear bumpers which is bad for aero. Our old cars have a very big opening under the rear bumpers with smooth fuel tanks that list upwards at the rear. That's borderline rear diffuser...albeit without the fins to keep the air stable. It would be lovely to form blocks of foam to smooth out the underfloor, particularly around the front subframe and rear axle of the 2nd gens....just need to make sure it's fire proof. lol

Having a diffuser at the rear doesn't just help rear down force, but the negative pressure under the car helps vent the under-hood area better improving downforce at the front too. Afterall, the only place excess pressure under the bonnet can go is under the floor of the car.

The ricer cars you see with deep rear bumpers are just silly. Completley negative to any aero advantage unless you travel everywhere in reverse.