SCC adjustable arms and g-mod

[MonzaRacer]

Hey thats a cool setup for spring adjustment, DEIGUY38, you build those adjusters?

[Mkelcy]

Hey thats a cool setup for spring adjustment, DEIGUY38, you build those adjusters?

http://www.afabcorp.com/AFCO_Dynatec...ct_coil-access

[DEIGuy38]

Hey thats a cool setup for spring adjustment, DEIGUY38, you build those adjusters?

I got them from http://www.lefthanderchassis.com/main.asp they have 2 different styles and alot of other good parts. http://www.lefthanderchassis.com/vie...roduct=0013041 http://www.lefthanderchassis.com/vie...roduct=0013042 I think Mark Stielow used them on the thrasher camaro.

[Jasons72]

So i've been looking at my budget lately and since my hours have been cut...again...and my wages suck, i think i'm going to have to wait on the adjustable uppers and go with the g-mod instead. I guess i will have to go with the tall upper ball joints if i'm to have any luck with camber gain.

When running the taller outer tie rod end how does that help with bump steer? does it still mount under the spindle like stock or does it mount on top?

If i can sell my GTI then i could possibly afford them since i will be taking the money and buying a cheaper car (hopefully another nova) so i should be able to use the extra money to get a few parts.

Another thought, if i use stock uppers i won't be able to use a taller mounting point for a coilover since there will be no room for the mount...

[DEIGuy38]

[QUOTE=Jasons72;629682]
When running the taller outer tie rod end how does that help with bump steer? does it still mount under the spindle like stock or does it mount on top?

Hope this will help. Yes, the tie rod still mounts under the spindle like the stock one. http://www.thedirtforum.com/bumpsteer.htm

[JRouche]

When running the taller outer tie rod end how does that help with bump steer? does it still mount under the spindle like stock or does it mount on top?

Still mounts at the bottom. From what I understand by lowering the steering arms (tie rod) outside pivot you get the pivot action closer to the pivot action of the lower control arms. You want the tie rod arc to mimic the arc of the lower control arm. Ideally they would occupy the same space, but thats impossible.

So say during compression as the control arm pulls the spindle in, closer to the center of the car the tie rod is pulling the steering arm of the spindle in at the same rate and distance. If not you get bump steer.

Many stock tie rod locations have the tie rod rising at a faster rate than the control arm. Either due to a short tie rod (pivot to pivot) or because the outer pivot is already up too high.

If its up too high (past the three O-clock position at ride height, and the control arm is at the three O-clock position (level lower control arm) then its already pulling in on the steering arm of the spindle before the control arm starts to pull the spindle in during compression. And at a faster rate due to its position higher up on the circle. Picture the 90* between the horizontal (3 O-clock) and twelve O-clock (drivers side looking from the front of the car). If the tie rod is already up into the 90* section by say 5* it is gonna pull in the steering arm of the spindle at a higher rate than the control arm is pulling in on the spindle that is starting out at the 3 O-clock position.

So the idea is to lower the outside pivot of the tie rod to get it closer to the three O-clock position and inline with the lower control arm. Maybe even lower than three O-clock to make up for a really short tie rod. But lower is worse. Cause if the tie rod is pointing down and the control arm is level you will have some squirmy steering. BUMP STEER. Cause during compression the tie rod goes from a "short arm" (being below the 3 O-clock position) growing in length as it rises, pushing the steering arm of the spindle out as the tie rod rises during compression of the suspension to a shortening arm as it passes 3 O-clock and on up. So you transition from a pushing to a pulling when the control arm was pulling during the entire compression cycle. That IMO is the worst of bump steer. Better to keep the tie rod at least in the same pulling or pushing cycle as the control arm than to over compensate and having the tie rod do a flip flop during compression..

Oh, why am I only talking about the compression cycle? Well, because I would have to write all of this for the rebound cycle too. Ok, I will.. Kidding. Wont bore you more. But I do think it is more important to talk about the compression cycle because in a turn the outside tire is gonna be in compression, and it happens to be the tire that is gonna have the most influence on the handling. Might as well lift the inside tire off the ground if yer fast. Kidding again. All the tires matter. I just happened to choose compression.

Again, ideally the two arms (control and tie rod) would occupy the same area and be the same length.

But in a long answer thats how I see it.

Summary.. Tall rod ends lower the tie rod to put it in sync with the control arm. Solly for the confusing reply. I explain things better in person. Writing wasnt one of my better skills JR

[Jasons72]

That was a very good explanation and i did understand it. Makes very good sense and i see how it will help. If i could sell one of my two VW's i think i could afford to spend a little more and get everything i will need to do the suspension correctly, ie the adjustable upper arms, taller ball joints and whatever spring and shock combo i'm going to come up with since the ride height i have has very poor lca angle, also going to put solid lca bushings in.