What are my choices for upper control arms for my 2 gen Camaro

[maldo]

What are my choices for upper control arms for my 80 Camaro Z/28.

Ok here is my story a while ago I posted about getting more info about a suspension system my dad bought for this car about 12 years ago (VBP ) strange enough we never got around to installing it. Well even though it’s a good all out race set up many that had the system said that there are better solutions with out the harsh ride. So I have deicide not to use the system and go anther route.


From my understanding (and I may be wrong) is that most of the suspension gain is from the upper control arms (positive caster etc).



For the lower control arms I will just will upgrade with del-a-lum bushings (I do not see any sense in changing the lower controls if most tubular aftermarkets are just stock dimensions)


1) What are the pros and cons of the different control arms out there?
2) Price range I see some that range from 325 to 750 ?? what’s good and bad and the ugly out there?

I am looking for good stuff but, Like most I am on a budget and have to pace myself so I can get the car done (I can always upgrade later but want to get the best bang for the buck possible.

So what you Opinion? Thx

[Lowend]

You have come at the right time as there are finally some choices out there for 2nd gen a-arms
As with most things there are different p絸arts designed around different goals.

I'll go though some basic choices and my thoughts

1) Global West:
The first "good" upper a-arm for the 2nd gen. These are well made, solid and have a good castor angle. The bushings are Del-a-lum which is the best on the market
The downsides: They are kind of expensive
Overall I would consider these the best arms for a street car

2) Detroit Speed (DSE)
These are beautiful and well built... functionally pretty much the same as Global West.
Downside: They are much more expensive than anything else.
Overall these would be more show-car that anything

3) SC&C These are the most "racey" of the control arms. Not very pretty but very functional. These are fully adjustable, and can accomidate the Howe super HD tall ball joint. If you want to fine tune the cars alignment and front suspension behavior, these are your pieces.
Downsides: On a street car you don't really need the adjustability. These don't have the greatest fitment, you may need to trim the mount towers to make them fit.
Overall - these are for the racers and come with the associated headache/benefits. These are the arms I use on my auto-x car.

4) Pro-Touring F-body
These are the budget models of the group. Non-adjustable, but similar in geometry to the DSE and Global West units. Nothing wrong with them, but not as pretty as the DSE or GW units either.
On the plus side if you order these as a package with the firewall braces (maybe the best mod you can do to the car) you do save a little $$
Downside: The solid bushings are somewhat unproven with a lack of sleeve; but I have yet to hear a complaint/failure.

You are bound to find Speedtech and BMR out there... they are basically lower quality copies of the Global West units. I don't like to support companies who rip-off the R&D depts of others so I can't recommend them

[ProdigyCustoms]

Don't forget Speedtech. My favorite quality arm for a great price.

[79T/Aman]

The solid bushings are somewhat unproven with a lack of sleeve; but I have yet to hear a complaint/failure.

in fact we have the best sleeve of ANY on the market and in 3 years of production there are over 400 sets out there.
Thanks for the good words

[maldo]

The solid bushings are somewhat unproven with a lack of sleeve; but I have yet to hear a complaint/failure.

in fact we have the best sleeve of ANY on the market and in 3 years of production there are over 400 sets out there.
Thanks for the good words

"lack of a sleeve" please expand on that does this mean metal on metal ? how does this effect the ride quailty and road feed back to the steering wheel etc? thx

[CRead01]

You are bound to find Speedtech and BMR out there... they are basically lower quality copies of the Global West units. I don't like to support companies who rip-off the R&D depts of others so I can't recommend them

just out of curiosity what is wrong with these brands? I havn't looked into BMR but the speedtech ones look like good quality parts.

[79T/Aman]

well our do have a steel locating sleeve instead of an aluminum lip on all others, as far as ride quality and solid body bushings go this is a perpetuated fallacy from unexperienced bench racers, the fact is that solidly bolting the two car halfs together surely should sound like the correct thing to do to anyone and it is, anothe fact is that modern unibody cars have the front frame welded to the body.
As for feed back, the more solid the chassis is the more feed back the driver gets but this is a good thing especialy in performance application.
One thing that still needs to be stressed is the need for a rigid chassis in order for the suspension to do it's job.

[maldo]

well our do have a steel locating sleeve instead of an aluminum lip on all others, as far as ride quality and solid body bushings go this is a perpetuated fallacy from unexperienced bench racers, the fact is that solidly bolting the two car halfs together surely should sound like the correct thing to do to anyone and it is, anothe fact is that modern unibody cars have the front frame welded to the body.
As for feed back, the more solid the chassis is the more feed back the driver gets but this is a good thing especialy in performance application.
One thing that still needs to be stressed is the need for a rigid chassis in order for the suspension to do it's job.

Are you referring to the control arms?

By far you have the best prices for control arms.

I am no stranger to the hi performance aspect have owned 2-4 th gen f-bodies.
Over the years my experience with solid or poly control bushing have been good and bad… I mean I go way back to the first gen of poly bushing (before they improved them) which would be great for a short period but would bind, squeak and wear out very fast.
even with the newer poly bushings on the control arms I would always run into allot of road noise and unwanted feed back which did not make the car a good street car great on the track but not so good on the street. (I also live in NYC area where the roads around here are terrible)

How are your control arms for everyday use? With the solid bushings set up.
Again I am looking for a modern car ride like my newer camaro and vette
I am not looking for an all out race car ride but want a well balanced car with a modern ride and handling.

[Marcus SC&C]

I can`t speak for other vendors but the greasable steel bushings in our SPC adj. arms are very nice on the street. I`ve been running them on my own cars for years, some of them 12,000-15,000 miles a year rain or shine. Here in the pothole state (PA) where the roads are like paved wagon ruts that`s saying something. A good solid UCA bushings will allow the arms to pivot very freely letting the springs and shocks soak up the bumps. Rubber bushings deflect and then bottom out with a thud when they get a sudden jolt. No deflection, no thud. Solid LCA bushings will transmit more med and high frequency NVH because they`re weight bearing but the difference in NVH is much smaller than most would imagine. They`ll soak up big bumps better (see above) they`ll just let you feel more of the texture of the road surface. The solid bushing UCAs don`t really even change that feel. Remember cars like the big old luxurious Cadillacs and Chryslers of the 50s had greasable steel front suspension bushings (upper and lower) and they set the standards for a smooth ride for many years. Mark SC&C

[CRead01]

I can`t speak for other vendors but the greasable steel bushings in our SPC adj. arms are very nice on the street. I`ve been running them on my own cars for years, some of them 12,000-15,000 miles a year rain or shine. Here in the pothole state (PA) where the roads are like paved wagon ruts that`s saying something. A good solid UCA bushings will allow the arms to pivot very freely letting the springs and shocks soak up the bumps. Rubber bushings deflect and then bottom out with a thud when they get a sudden jolt. No deflection, no thud. Solid LCA bushings will transmit more med and high frequency NVH because they`re weight bearing but the difference in NVH is much smaller than most would imagine. They`ll soak up big bumps better (see above) they`ll just let you feel more of the texture of the road surface. The solid bushing UCAs don`t really even change that feel. Remember cars like the big old luxurious Cadillacs and Chryslers of the 50s had greasable steel front suspension bushings (upper and lower) and they set the standards for a smooth ride for many years. Mark SC&C

Great explanation. I have always wondered

[79T/Aman]

OK, well I feel like a big dumb A** right now, I completly miss read what lowend was saying about the solid bushing part, I thought he was talking about our body bushings, well Mark said it best, no problem with the solid pivots I've run them for over 70,000 miles on one car and the prototypes of our Comp arms have been on my car for 5 years

[killer69]

here is our offering
549.00
stainless off set cross shafts
moog problem solver ball joints
gloss black powder coated.

[maldo]

here is our offering
549.00
stainless off set cross shafts
moog problem solver ball joints
gloss black powder coated.

Not to sound cheap but how come you guys are so much more?
http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/cha...omponents.html
For example the link above has a Similar product and these guys are selling for much less and offer much more for the money I mean for $669.00 I can get the upper control arms plus all the stuff I need to rebuild the front end.

I am not trying to say one product is better then the other but, what’s the difference with your product to justify the cost ( I mean does it offer better handling ride etc? ) I am not trying to start a war but I am trying to understand between all the products out there....
thx Jim

[killer69]

You are bound to find Speedtech and BMR out there... they are basically lower quality copies of the Global West units. I don't like to support companies who rip-off the R&D depts of others so I can't recommend them

What is that supposed to mean???

How do you know they are lower quality?
i dont see stainless steel cross shafts on GW arms!
i don't see moog Problem solver ball joints!
have you seen the quality of our powder coating?
have you seen the quality of our welding
do you know the quality of out raw materials?

And please TELL ME who did GW copy????? (hint flip the W upside down)
And why is DSE not a copy if ours are????

Pretty strong statement about ripping off R&D

maybe GM should sue every company that makes parts for their cars! cuz they originally came up the the idea !!!!

NO??

[killer69]

[quote=maldo]Not to sound cheap but how come you guys are so much more?



How much more?
DSE 650.00
GW 673.76


when comparing apples

looks like we should raise our price.

[79T/Aman]

can't believe this has turned into a sales pitch from a none forum advertiser!!!!

[killer69]

Guy asks what his options are.
next guy list "some" of the options

i chime in with another option.

then someone bashes our product!!

what else would you expect me to do.

honestly

it's not a sales pitch.
and i guess if i need to pay the 1200.. ??? just to add to a thread when some one has already mentioned the product then what ever

[79T/Aman]

you are not Speedtech, and even though My company IS an advertiser on this board I did not make a sales pitch out of this, sorry to inform you but "here is our offering" along with a price and a pic does not count as an "option", that was handled by Lowend

[WS6]

Actually he is. Killer bought Speed Tech a year ago now?.

Regardless, do not turn this thread into a pi$$ing match or else I'm gonna get pi$$ed. There is very good info here. Agree to disagree. State the facts about your product, if you have one. If you are not a vendor and have no affiliation with a product you are free to state whatever opinion your have, preferably one that can be backed up. Besides, companies bashing other companies openly make yourself look bad and destroys a thread. Keep it on tech, facts, and very informed opinions.

Thanks

[79T/Aman]

WS6, are you saying that I bashed another product ? if so, how and where? and I'm not turning it into a pi$$ing match, in fact killer69 is the one that did not keep it on tech, I'll stand corrected on who ownes Speedtech